Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
Steve
Steve, Have a look at the disk firmware matrix. That I believe has disk manufacturer. However I am not sure there are different part numbers for a given brand. On Dec 7, 2015 7:19 PM, "Klise, Steve" Steve.Klise@wwt.com wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
Steve
Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
I did check the matrix, but I only see firmware to NA part number.. My 1st place I looked.. :) Thanks
Steve Klise
From: Douglas Siggins <siggins@gmail.commailto:siggins@gmail.com> Date: Monday, December 7, 2015 at 4:55 PM To: "Klise, Steve" <Steve.Klise@wwt.commailto:Steve.Klise@wwt.com> Cc: "toasters@teaparty.netmailto:toasters@teaparty.net" <toasters@teaparty.netmailto:toasters@teaparty.net> Subject: Re: Netapp disk manufacture
Steve, Have a look at the disk firmware matrix. That I believe has disk manufacturer. However I am not sure there are different part numbers for a given brand.
On Dec 7, 2015 7:19 PM, "Klise, Steve" <Steve.Klise@wwt.commailto:Steve.Klise@wwt.com> wrote: Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
Steve
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If they're avoiding a brand because of perceived reliability, remind them that that's not their problem, it's Netapp's. Anyways, they'll be hard pressed to find a manufacturer that allows you to choose which brand of drives go inside the cages.
On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 8:09 PM, Klise, Steve Steve.Klise@wwt.com wrote:
I did check the matrix, but I only see firmware to NA part number.. My 1st place I looked.. :)
Thanks
Steve Klise
From: Douglas Siggins siggins@gmail.com Date: Monday, December 7, 2015 at 4:55 PM To: "Klise, Steve" Steve.Klise@wwt.com Cc: "toasters@teaparty.net" toasters@teaparty.net Subject: Re: Netapp disk manufacture
Steve, Have a look at the disk firmware matrix. That I believe has disk manufacturer. However I am not sure there are different part numbers for a given brand. On Dec 7, 2015 7:19 PM, "Klise, Steve" Steve.Klise@wwt.com wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
Steve
Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
"Steve" == Steve Klise Steve.Klise@wwt.com writes:
Steve> Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, Steve> manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find Steve> anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need Steve> them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
There's only four drive manufactures now, Seagate, WD, Toshiba and Samsung. And I think they're mostly the first three...
Steve> I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
They're idiots. Hopefully they're paying you enough to put up with their foolishness. But since they're going through you... they're not paying Netapp for support (either end of life or just cheap...) so they're being stupid.
But hey, just jack the quote 20% (or more!) for being such pains.
John, Thats a heck of a comment there. I've seen many cases where Netapp shipped disks with known high failure rates. If this was something known or suspected I'd have no issues asking a vendor to do the same. I'd expect the vendor to comply.
http://mysupport.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=606576 http://mysupport.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=573382
On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:56 PM, John Stoffel john@stoffel.org wrote:
"Steve" == Steve Klise Steve.Klise@wwt.com writes:
Steve> Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, Steve> manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find Steve> anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need Steve> them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
There's only four drive manufactures now, Seagate, WD, Toshiba and Samsung. And I think they're mostly the first three...
Steve> I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
They're idiots. Hopefully they're paying you enough to put up with their foolishness. But since they're going through you... they're not paying Netapp for support (either end of life or just cheap...) so they're being stupid.
But hey, just jack the quote 20% (or more!) for being such pains.
Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
Agreed. We have no problem shipping shelves with specific manufacturer drives. A bit more work for us but aren't we supposed to be adding value?
.
On Dec 7, 2015, at 8:16 PM, Douglas Siggins <siggins@gmail.commailto:siggins@gmail.com> wrote:
John, Thats a heck of a comment there. I've seen many cases where Netapp shipped disks with known high failure rates. If this was something known or suspected I'd have no issues asking a vendor to do the same. I'd expect the vendor to comply.
http://mysupport.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=606576 http://mysupport.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=573382
On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:56 PM, John Stoffel <john@stoffel.orgmailto:john@stoffel.org> wrote:
"Steve" == Steve Klise <Steve.Klise@wwt.commailto:Steve.Klise@wwt.com> writes:
Steve> Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, Steve> manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find Steve> anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need Steve> them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
There's only four drive manufactures now, Seagate, WD, Toshiba and Samsung. And I think they're mostly the first three...
Steve> I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
They're idiots. Hopefully they're paying you enough to put up with their foolishness. But since they're going through you... they're not paying Netapp for support (either end of life or just cheap...) so they're being stupid.
But hey, just jack the quote 20% (or more!) for being such pains.
_______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
_______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
Doug:
How much data did you lose?
_________________________________Jeff MohlerTech Yahoo, Storage Architect, Principal(831)454-6712 YPAC Gold Member Twitter: @PrincipalYahoo CorpIM: Hipchat & Iris
On Monday, December 7, 2015 8:26 PM, Douglas Siggins siggins@gmail.com wrote:
John, Thats a heck of a comment there. I've seen many cases where Netapp shipped disks with known high failure rates. If this was something known or suspected I'd have no issues asking a vendor to do the same. I'd expect the vendor to comply.
http://mysupport.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=606576 http://mysupport.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=573382
On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:56 PM, John Stoffel john@stoffel.org wrote:
"Steve" == Steve Klise Steve.Klise@wwt.com writes:
Steve> Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, Steve> manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find Steve> anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need Steve> them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
There's only four drive manufactures now, Seagate, WD, Toshiba and Samsung. And I think they're mostly the first three...
Steve> I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
They're idiots. Hopefully they're paying you enough to put up with their foolishness. But since they're going through you... they're not paying Netapp for support (either end of life or just cheap...) so they're being stupid.
But hey, just jack the quote 20% (or more!) for being such pains.
_______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
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I guess you were just fine then. With them darn failure high failure rate disks. I might know a thing or two about that. We had a few couples o 10s of 1000s of "the disk that shall not be named". Was never a problem. I don't care if they store data on sliced ham as long as the solution meets the required metrics and goals. The SW is the key. Not the HW.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 20:40, Jeffrey Mohlerjmohler@yahoo-inc.com wrote: Doug:
How much data did you lose?
_________________________________Jeff MohlerTech Yahoo, Storage Architect, Principal(831)454-6712 YPAC Gold Member Twitter: @PrincipalYahoo CorpIM: Hipchat & Iris
On Monday, December 7, 2015 8:26 PM, Douglas Siggins siggins@gmail.com wrote:
John, Thats a heck of a comment there. I've seen many cases where Netapp shipped disks with known high failure rates. If this was something known or suspected I'd have no issues asking a vendor to do the same. I'd expect the vendor to comply.
http://mysupport.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=606576 http://mysupport.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=573382
On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:56 PM, John Stoffel john@stoffel.org wrote:
"Steve" == Steve Klise Steve.Klise@wwt.com writes:
Steve> Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, Steve> manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find Steve> anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need Steve> them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
There's only four drive manufactures now, Seagate, WD, Toshiba and Samsung. And I think they're mostly the first three...
Steve> I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
They're idiots. Hopefully they're paying you enough to put up with their foolishness. But since they're going through you... they're not paying Netapp for support (either end of life or just cheap...) so they're being stupid.
But hey, just jack the quote 20% (or more!) for being such pains.
_______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
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It's a heck of a comment, but I stand by it in alot of ways. I've been working with Netapps for 18 years now and I have to say I can't recall every having a disk die and lose data. I've come close mind you!
I had an F740 with the DEC StorageWorks cannisters and I had a dual disk failure in an aggregate. Luckily, one disk died at the head/platter, but the other died in the controller board. I cracked open the cannisters, swapped controller boards on the drives and I was able to get back up and running. About four hours of downtime I admit, but no data loss. All of this was done with Netapp TechSupport on the line.
And of course this was all under OnTap 5.x maybe? Maybe 6.x, but I can't remember, it was over 12 years ago, so the details are hazy, but I could dig up an old email on this if you like. :-)
But I *still* stand by my comment. If the box is under Netapp Support, it's in Netapp's interest to make sure they use good drives, otherwise they're going to be eating alot of profit with more frequent swaps. And don't think they won't have the drive vendors doing lots of triage on the problem as well, with on-sight people looking at all returned drives.
If you are going third party... then I guess you could ask for this info, but I would argue you'd also need to know the drive age, firmware level, etc to make a determination that really means something.
Sure, go for the warm fuzzies of knowing that you've got drive X in your array... but I wouldn't count on it meaning much. As it's been shown for many years, once the initial die off happens on drives, if they are kept spinning, they tend to keep spinning for quite a while. It's the spin down/up that kills drives the most quickly.
Douglas> Thats a heck of a comment there. I've seen many cases where Douglas> Netapp shipped disks with known high failure rates. If this Douglas> was something known or suspected I'd have no issues asking a Douglas> vendor to do the same. I'd expect the vendor to comply.
Wasn't this during the flooding in Thailand that knocked out a bunch of factories, which led to the huge increases in drive prices? I'm sure Netapp and alot of other disk vendors had to accept what they were offered at that time and deal with it.
Disks die. It doesn't matter who makes em. They all go through good/bad phases.
John
@John,
Actually regarding spinning disks, Samsung HDDs was bought by Seagate in 2011, so there's only 3 spinning disk manufacturers left. Of course, Samsung is still the vendor of choice (it seems) for SSDs...
@Steve: If you look at the output of (e.g.) "sysconfig -ba", you'll see a product ID, like "X287_S15K6288A15". If you look at the letter(s) after the underscore, you'll find the manufacturer:
_SAM... Samsung (SSDs) _SS... Samsung (SSDs) _S... Seagate _T... Toshiba _H... Hitachi (2 1/2" HDDs bought by WDC in 2011, 3 1/2" HDDs bought by Toshiba in 2012) _W... Western Digital (WDC)
And as mentioned by others, sometimes the same part number can turn out to be different disks. "Right-Sizing" disks is the machanism used, to be able to multi-source disks even from different vendors for same capacity 'parts' (i.e. artificially cutting down the size to something below the lowest common denominator). Search in the "qual_devices_v3 http://mysupport.netapp.com/download/tools/diskqual/qual_devices.zip" file to find out, which part ID equals which manufacturer(s).
Hope that helps
Sebastian
On 12/8/2015 4:56 AM, John Stoffel wrote:
"Steve" == Steve Klise Steve.Klise@wwt.com writes:
Steve> Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, Steve> manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find Steve> anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need Steve> them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
There's only four drive manufactures now, Seagate, WD, Toshiba and Samsung. And I think they're mostly the first three...
Steve> I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
They're idiots. Hopefully they're paying you enough to put up with their foolishness. But since they're going through you... they're not paying Netapp for support (either end of life or just cheap...) so they're being stupid.
But hey, just jack the quote 20% (or more!) for being such pains.
Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
Sebastian> Actually regarding spinning disks, Samsung HDDs was bought Sebastian> by Seagate in 2011, so there's only 3 spinning disk Sebastian> manufacturers left. Of course, Samsung is still the vendor Sebastian> of choice (it seems) for SSDs...
Thanks for the correction, I didn't bother to check since I know we're down to a very small subset of disk makers these days.
On 12/8/2015 4:20 PM, John Stoffel wrote:
Sebastian> Actually regarding spinning disks, Samsung HDDs was bought Sebastian> by Seagate in 2011, so there's only 3 spinning disk Sebastian> manufacturers left. Of course, Samsung is still the vendor Sebastian> of choice (it seems) for SSDs...
Thanks for the correction, I didn't bother to check since I know we're down to a very small subset of disk makers these days.
I looked it up in my very own "Storage Fundamentals" course, that I'm teaching once in a while... It has a slide about that.
;-)
If you are really curious, you can find them in disk qualification package, but I do not think you can order specific manufacturer, at least through standard retail channels.
Отправлено с iPhone
8 дек. 2015 г., в 3:24, Klise, Steve Steve.Klise@wwt.com написал(а):
Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
Steve _______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
I'll forward your email to someone in the hardware group who can make a formal answer, but when this has come up in the past I believe the answer was that you can't guarantee what vendor is used within any particular NetApp drive part number. The reason is that vendors and models change over time. It's the same situation with every other storage vendor I'm familiar with.
If a storage vendor has a part number that is just "600GB Drive" they need the flexibility to select a drive from multiple manufacturers. We wouldn't want to have to change the partner number every time a drive model was discontinued, or risk delayed shipments because a particular drive vendor had a production problem or a disaster at a particular manufacturing facility. Sometimes even the capacity changes. The drive carrier might be "600 GB Drive" but some of them could be 610GB while another is 620GB. Both can be used as a 600GB drive.
From: toasters-bounces@teaparty.net [mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net] On Behalf Of Klise, Steve Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 1:15 AM To: Toasters Subject: Netapp disk manufacture
Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
Steve
Disks are made to do one thing. Fail.
The solution on top of them is what you pay for...to suggest that the _disks_ are the core of the solution, well, not everyone can be an astronaut.
Certainly, a vendor would use a better disk as opposed to a more troublesome one for the reasons of supportability costs, etc, and even THEN..Seagate can have a bad day, or Hitachi..or anyone else.
Moose drives anyone? _________________________________Jeff MohlerTech Yahoo, Storage Architect, Principal(831)454-6712 YPAC Gold Member Twitter: @PrincipalYahoo CorpIM: Hipchat & Iris
On Monday, December 7, 2015 4:26 PM, "Klise, Steve" Steve.Klise@wwt.com wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc. I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer. Steve _______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
One of the reasons I got my first NetApp (F330, max capacity 120GB, ONTAP 3.0.1 I believe) was a huge batch of Quantum Bigfoot drives distributed in various servers all decided to croak en mass.
I was also one of the first NearStore R100 users. We annoyed our NetApp sales rep by running production workloads on it even though the R100 line was supposed to be for "nearline" storage, whatever that would have entailed. We killed the drives pretty quick, but that was NetApp's problem, not ours. We never lost data, we just had to swap drives more often than usual.
We eventually decommissioned it and a certain individual intercepted it before the recycling pickup, took all the drives out, and ebayed them for a nice return. If that individual is on Toasters, please speak up.
From: toasters-bounces@teaparty.net [mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Mohler Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 8:01 AM To: NGC-steve.klise-wwt.com; Toasters Subject: Re: Netapp disk manufacture
Disks are made to do one thing.
Fail.
The solution on top of them is what you pay for...to suggest that the _disks_ are the core of the solution, well, not everyone can be an astronaut.
Certainly, a vendor would use a better disk as opposed to a more troublesome one for the reasons of supportability costs, etc, and even THEN..Seagate can have a bad day, or Hitachi..or anyone else.
Moose drives anyone?
_________________________________ Jeff Mohlermailto:jmohler@yahoo-inc.com Tech Yahoo, Storage Architect, Principal (831)454-6712 YPAC Gold Member Twitter: @PrincipalYahoo CorpIM: Hipchat & Iris
On Monday, December 7, 2015 4:26 PM, "Klise, Steve" <Steve.Klise@wwt.commailto:Steve.Klise@wwt.com> wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
Steve
_______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
<snark>What’s the point of paying a premium for a sophisticated storage appliance if you’re not going to trust it to keep your data safe from things like individual disk failures? Your customer must not understand why they are buying a NetApp, especially since they seem to think they know more than you or NetApp. It sounds like they would be better off buying a cheap, consumer-grade RAID box and putting their favored brand of drives in it themselves. If they want to take on the support of their storage solution then give them one that is DIY-friendly. </snark>
In all seriousness, it’s probably worth your while in the long run to spend a little time educating the customer.
On Dec 7, 2015, at 18:15, Klise, Steve <Steve.Klise@wwt.commailto:Steve.Klise@wwt.com> wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find part numbers for disk size, manufacture? I looked on the NOW site but couldn’t find anything. I need to know if they are seagate, WD, etc.. I need them for all SAS, SATA, FC, SSD, etc.
I have a customer that insists on a certain manufacturer.
Steve _______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
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