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13510 discussions

Administrivia
by Tom Yates 18 Mar '24

18 Mar '24

This mailing list, like a number of others, is hosted on my colocated box, using mailman2. The box is running CentOS 7, which goes end-of-life fairly soon, and I plan to rebuild it running Debian 12 some time in the next month or two (more solid notice will be given nearer the time!). There have been no posts to this list since Oct 2023, so although we still have a goodly number of subscribers, I wonder whether, after 26 years, the list has run its course. I have enough other lists that I'll still have to put mailman3 on the new box, but migrating a large list with a big archive from mailman2 to mailman3 is still quite an undertaking. If it turned out that it was pointless, it would be a large enough job that not having to do it would be a noticeable time-saver. Let me clarify that I'm not looking to offload the list, or to move it again. If it's still useful, I'll do the legwork and migrate it; if it's not, then let's just turn it off. So I seek guidance. Let's not have the discussion on-list, but if you have any thoughts about whether this list is still useful, please let me know privately. Both positive and negative thoughts are valuable, so if you have any strong feelings either way, I'd like to hear them. Thanks! -- Tom Yates - https://www.teaparty.net

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Re: Question about flash pool maximum SSD size and local tiering
by Michael Bergman 18 Oct '23

18 Oct '23

On 2023-10-17 14:54, Florian Schmid via Toasters wrote: > Hi Johan, > thank you very much for your help. > > No, we don't have the disks yet for which the flash-pool should be used. > Not all SSDs will be used for flash-pool, only some for cache and the rest > for fast SSD storage. So you're thinking to have several different "physical tiers" with different characteristics (performance, inherent latency) for different workloads -- in the same HA-pair? Several different Aggrs with differing performance and behaviour in the same node, FAS8300? (it's a fairly powerful machine so it can do this adequately in many smaller workload cases). Or do you mean in different 8300 nodes in a X-node cluster (what's X?) This idea is much harder to make successful than you probably think. It requires you to know very much about your workloads, your applications, what they do so that you can place the correct data in the right place and you have to have the ability to do this over time as data volumes grow. Assuming they do... It's very hard indeed to automate so you need people who can baby watch this continuously and move data around. Yes that's mostly non-disruptive, but it's still quite a lot of work. It also pretty much assumes for it to be successful in the longer run that your applications do not change their workload patterns and/or pressure more than very slowly. Is this the case? All in all FabricPool is much much more automatic. It just does the job itself, pretty much w/o fuss once you've tuned it a bit w.r.t. cool down period(s) and things. It "just works". You do need an S3 target system, but as has already been pointed out it can be ONTAP with NL-SAS drives, if you already have a bunch of these lying about you can repurpose those and instead use new Cx00 (or Ax00) nodes in the "front end". The challenge with FabricPool is the network: the connection between the front end and the S3 back end needs to be very good and solid. You have to understand it fully and know every detail how it's built so you know you can trust it's capacity and latency; traffic can be quite bursty. I'm not very positive to your idea here I'm afraid: "Not all SSDs will be used for flash-pool, only some for cache and the rest for fast SSD storage." it's just my (long) experience of this that it's not very productive in reality and it costs a lot of operations (manual work, skilled personnel). It also tends to give you various problems when you need to do HW LCM (upgrade your controllers and disk back ends). It inevitably leads to stranded capacity in more than once dimension as time passes. /M -- Sr Human ;-) Alt: r.m.bergman(a)gmail-DEL_THIS-.com -- "Qui vicit non est victor nisi victus fatetur." - Ennius

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Re: Re: Question about flash pool maximum SSD size and local tiering
by Gislen, Johan 17 Oct '23

17 Oct '23

Hi Florian, If you have the NL-SAS aggregate in place already I’d recommend having a look at using AWA to figure out what the optimal cache size would be: https://docs.netapp.com/us-en/ontap/disks-aggregates/determine-flash-pool-c… That would give you an idea of how much Flash Pool capacity you’d really benefit from. Regarding 3.8TB vs 7.6 TB – if the 7.6 TB drives are not listed as supported in the HWU, it’s most likely not supported. There’s also a note in the HWU for the 3.8TB drives under “System Cache Limits” – “Max number of Flash Pool Data SSDs: 20” (this is excluding RAID parity & hot spares) – if I’m intepreting that note correcly there’d be no point in adding more than one shelf of 3.8TB drives. Regards, Johan On 2023-10-17, 09:57, "Florian Schmid" <fschmid(a)ubimet.com> wrote: Hi Sebastian and Michael, thank you very much for your help. We haven't bought the SSD shelves yet. We don't know, if we should take 2 shelves with 3.8 TB or 1 shelf with 7.6 TB. I tend to one shelf with 7.6 TB... We are using flash-pool already with Raid-4, exactly for saving space. My problem is now, that I'm concerned about the HWU statement, that there is no SSD listed for using in flash-pool over 3.8 TB. This let me think, that flash-pool is not supported for SSD with 7.6 TB or greater. I haven't found anything else about it on NetApp site, only in the HWU for system cache limits for FAS 8300 Same limits are also for 8700 or 9000 series, no difference here. Really strange. Best regards, Florian ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----- Von: "Sebastian Goetze" <spgoetze(a)gmail.com<mailto:spgoetze@gmail.com>> An: "toasters" <toasters(a)teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net>> Gesendet: Montag, 16. Oktober 2023 15:35:36 Betreff: Re: Question about flash pool maximum SSD size and local tiering Hi Florian, On 16.10.2023 15:01, Fenn, Michael wrote: > FlashPool SSDs (unlike FlashCache) are attached to aggregates as normal RAID groups, so you can use as many 3.8 TB drives in RAID-DP as you like to hit the maximum FlashPool capacity. Consider using RAID4 for the SSD RaidGroups... More Cache, and for the Write-cached blocks, not really less safety. (SSDs are more reliable, blocks are usually written fairly soon to HDD anyway) Regarding sizes: any size that's supported for the HW should be fine (3.8/15.3TB). Within the Cache-RG, you should use the same size disks, however... > > Note that FlashPool and FabricPool use the same underlying tiering metadata structures, so you can only have one or the other enabled on any given aggregate. > > Thanks, > Michael > > On 10/16/23, 8:03 AM, "Toasters on behalf of Florian Schmid via Toasters" <toasters-bounces(a)teaparty.net<mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net> <mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net<mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net>> on behalf of toasters(a)teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net> <mailto:toasters@teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net>>> wrote: > > > Hi Alexander, > > this is a very good tip! Tank you very much. > I will have a look on this. > > Best regards, > Florian > > ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----- > Von: "Alexander Griesser" <AGriesser(a)anexia.com<mailto:AGriesser@anexia.com>> > An: "Florian Schmid" <fschmid(a)ubimet.com<mailto:fschmid@ubimet.com>>, "toasters" <toasters(a)teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net>> > Gesendet: Montag, 16. Oktober 2023 12:07:53 > Betreff: AW: Question about flash pool maximum SSD size and local tiering > > Hi Florian, > > I cannot answer the question with the SSD sizes, I'm not sure if this is really a hard requirement or if the slices just may not be bigger than 3.8TB (in that case, you could probably manually partition the SSDs), maybe someone else has more insights into this. > > As for your second question: You can spin up OnTap's integrated S3 server on your old boxes and use them as fabric pool targets: > https://www.netapp.com/media/17219-tr4814.pdf > > Best, > > Alexander Griesser > Head of Systems Operations > > ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH > > E-Mail: AGriesser(a)anexia.com<mailto:AGriesser@anexia.com> > Web: https://www.anexia.com > > Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt > Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler > Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Florian Schmid <fschmid(a)ubimet.com<mailto:fschmid@ubimet.com>> > Gesendet: Montag, 16. Oktober 2023 11:53 > An: toasters(a)teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net> > Betreff: Question about flash pool maximum SSD size and local tiering > > Hi, > > I have checked NetApp HWU for a FAS 8300 and system cache limits. > > Ok, so far, max flash-pool is 72 TB, which is a way more than I want to use, but I haven't seen usable SSDs greater than 3.8 TB. > > Is that really true, that I can't use a 7.6 TB or 15.3 TB SSD for flash-pool? > > It would be nice, if someone has here a deeper understanding than I have about this and can give me here some clarifications. > > May I ask a second question? > Is flash-pool still the way to go for speeding up NL-SAS aggregates? > I had a look on fabric-pool tiering, but it seems like, that this only works to S3 storage, which we don't have. > We have plenty of NL-SAS storage and also of SSDs and it would be great to have a tiering between them or at least use them for caching. > > Best regards, > Florian > > > > _______________________________________________ > Toasters mailing list > Toasters(a)teaparty.net<mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net> > https://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters _______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters(a)teaparty.net<mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net> https://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

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Re:
by Fenn, Michael 17 Oct '23

17 Oct '23

FlashPool SSDs (unlike FlashCache) are attached to aggregates as normal RAID groups, so you can use as many 3.8 TB drives in RAID-DP as you like to hit the maximum FlashPool capacity. Note that FlashPool and FabricPool use the same underlying tiering metadata structures, so you can only have one or the other enabled on any given aggregate. Thanks, Michael On 10/16/23, 8:03 AM, "Toasters on behalf of Florian Schmid via Toasters" <toasters-bounces(a)teaparty.net <mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net> on behalf of toasters(a)teaparty.net <mailto:toasters@teaparty.net>> wrote: Hi Alexander, this is a very good tip! Tank you very much. I will have a look on this. Best regards, Florian ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----- Von: "Alexander Griesser" <AGriesser(a)anexia.com> An: "Florian Schmid" <fschmid(a)ubimet.com>, "toasters" <toasters(a)teaparty.net> Gesendet: Montag, 16. Oktober 2023 12:07:53 Betreff: AW: Question about flash pool maximum SSD size and local tiering Hi Florian, I cannot answer the question with the SSD sizes, I'm not sure if this is really a hard requirement or if the slices just may not be bigger than 3.8TB (in that case, you could probably manually partition the SSDs), maybe someone else has more insights into this. As for your second question: You can spin up OnTap's integrated S3 server on your old boxes and use them as fabric pool targets: https://www.netapp.com/media/17219-tr4814.pdf Best, Alexander Griesser Head of Systems Operations ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH E-Mail: AGriesser(a)anexia.com Web: https://www.anexia.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Florian Schmid <fschmid(a)ubimet.com> Gesendet: Montag, 16. Oktober 2023 11:53 An: toasters(a)teaparty.net Betreff: Question about flash pool maximum SSD size and local tiering Hi, I have checked NetApp HWU for a FAS 8300 and system cache limits. Ok, so far, max flash-pool is 72 TB, which is a way more than I want to use, but I haven't seen usable SSDs greater than 3.8 TB. Is that really true, that I can't use a 7.6 TB or 15.3 TB SSD for flash-pool? It would be nice, if someone has here a deeper understanding than I have about this and can give me here some clarifications. May I ask a second question? Is flash-pool still the way to go for speeding up NL-SAS aggregates? I had a look on fabric-pool tiering, but it seems like, that this only works to S3 storage, which we don't have. We have plenty of NL-SAS storage and also of SSDs and it would be great to have a tiering between them or at least use them for caching. Best regards, Florian

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Question about flash pool maximum SSD size and local tiering
by Florian Schmid 16 Oct '23

16 Oct '23

Hi, I have checked NetApp HWU for a FAS 8300 and system cache limits. Ok, so far, max flash-pool is 72 TB, which is a way more than I want to use, but I haven't seen usable SSDs greater than 3.8 TB. Is that really true, that I can't use a 7.6 TB or 15.3 TB SSD for flash-pool? It would be nice, if someone has here a deeper understanding than I have about this and can give me here some clarifications. May I ask a second question? Is flash-pool still the way to go for speeding up NL-SAS aggregates? I had a look on fabric-pool tiering, but it seems like, that this only works to S3 storage, which we don't have. We have plenty of NL-SAS storage and also of SSDs and it would be great to have a tiering between them or at least use them for caching. Best regards, Florian

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SSH commands to ONTAP 9.11.1P11 failing from within script
by Davis, Kevin 06 Oct '23

06 Oct '23

Folks something tells me this is going to be a "D'Oh!" moment, but I'm baffled. I had a simple requirement to support an ongoing project that requires the creation of a snapshot, and a CIFS share referencing that snapshot, over a series of days. Snapshot and share name naming convention is a simple <YYYYmmdd-<string> and <YYYYmmdd-<string>$> respectively. The intention is to create both snapshot/share a little after midnight each day until the project ends and they are no longer needed. Simple enough, right? Well, when I run these commands via SSH from a prompt on a Linux box, everything works just fine: [root@foo01 ~]# /bin/ssh admin@foo'snapshot create -vserver foo3 -volume Foo04 -snapshot 20231003-foo -expiry-time 11/02/2023 00:00:00' Last login time: 10/2/2023 12:26:31 [root@foo01 ~]# /bin/ssh admin@foo 'snapshot show -vserver foo3 -volume Foo04 -snapshot 20231003-foo ' Last login time: 10/2/2023 12:46:12 Vserver: foo3 Volume: Foo04 Snapshot: 20231003-foo Creation Time: Mon Oct 02 12:46:13 2023 Snapshot Busy: false List of Owners: - Snapshot Size: 14.76MB Percentage of Total Blocks: 0% Percentage of Used Blocks: 0% Comment: - 7-Mode Snapshot: false Label for SnapMirror Operations: - Snapshot State: - Constituent Snapshot: false Expiry Time: 11/2/2023 00:00:00 SnapLock Expiry Time: - However, running a script (sh or bash, makes no difference in this case), I get this when it runs. It actually doesn't matter what ONTAP command I send, they all give the same "Vserver name: Invalid." error (the /bin/ssh lines are just echo statements in the script so I can see that it's building and sending the right command line): /bin/ssh admin@foo 'snapshot create -vserver foo3 -volume Foo04 -snapshot 20231003-foo -expiry-time 11/02/2023 00:00:00' Last login time: 10/2/2023 12:46:39 Error: Vserver name: Invalid. The Vserver name must begin with a letter or an underscore. Maximum supported length: 41 if Vserver is type "sync-source", 47 otherwise. /bin/ssh admin@foo 'cifs share create -vserver foo3 -path /Foo04/.snapshot/20231003-foo -share-name 20231003-foo$ -share-properties oplocks,browsable,changenotify,show-previous-versions -symlink-properties symlinks -offline-files manual -vscan-fileop-profile standard -max-connections-per-share 4294967295 -comment pst migrations ok to delete after 11/02/2023 00:00:00' Last login time: 10/2/2023 12:51:11 Error: Vserver name: Invalid. The Vserver name must begin with a letter or an underscore. Maximum supported length: 41 if Vserver is type "sync-source", 47 otherwise. The script is so simple it's embarrassing. Define a few variables and optargs, build 3 simple SSH commands to send to the toaster, and run them. Everything up until these commands reach the toaster is working as expected. It just breaks when it gets there. -- Kevin Davis Systems Administration | Sr. Storage Engineer | Information Services UMass Memorial Health | 100 Front St. Fl 1, Worcester, MA 01608 | mailto:kevin.davis@umassmemorial.org The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, transmission, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.

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The system's root volume does not meet the minimum required size.
by Randy Rue 28 Aug '23

28 Aug '23

Getting this warning in the "Active IQ Suggestions" since our last upgrade. It has a link under Corrective Action that leads to the top of NA's Hardware Universe site. The root volumes for our three vservers are all only 0% or 1% used (1GB each). But the "vol0" volumes show: scarab::> vol show Vserver Volume Aggregate State Type Size Available Used% --------- ------------ ------------ ---------- ---- ---------- ---------- ----- scarab-a vol0 aggr0_scarab_01 online RW 151.3GB 78.82GB 45% scarab-b vol0 aggr0_scarab_02 online RW 124.6GB 61.74GB 47% I think I recall trying to resize a node's root volume from the CLI in the past and getting an error along the lines of "don't mess with this volume."

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fg.space.member.nearlyFull: Constituent 1317 in FlexGroup
by Randy Rue 28 Aug '23

28 Aug '23

Getting this error in Events for several flexgroups. I've familiarized myself with checking for FlexGroup imbalances in System Manager and from the CLI. Since upgrading to 9.13.1 I see there are options in SM and the CLI to "rebalance" an FG. But launching a rebalance never seems to finish. The default is to give it six hours before timing out. It then gives up with no work done. Right now I'm running it on a ~8TB FG with 12 Constituent Volumes, ranging from 122GiB to 2.44TiB in size. It's been running for over two weeks now and it's still "Scanning" with 0 bytes moved. I think I gave it 60 days. Imbalance Percentage: 43% Moved Data Size: - Maximum Constituent Imbalance Percentage: 344% Rebalance Start Time: Thu Aug 10 12:30:37 2023 Rebalance Stop Time: - Rebalance Runtime: 428h12m10s Rebalance Maximum Runtime: 1440h0m0s Maximum Imbalance Threshold per Constituent: 20% Minimum Imbalance Threshold per Constituent: 5% Maximum Concurrent File Moves per Constituent: 25 Minimum File Size: 100MB Exclude Files Stuck in Snapshot Copies: true scarab::> Is this new "rebalance" feature just vaporware?

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Multiple SRA (OTV) / SRM instances per vSphere
by Chris Hague 28 Jul '23

28 Jul '23

Following a change which took place to upgrade NetApp OTV to 9.12, we experienced issues with our "many to one" SRM setup which is in place for various migrations. Effectively it will now only run in a "one to one" setup. This worked before. But now it seems that only the last OTV you register will work, overwriting the previous one. (We need to upgrade OTV to 9.12 in order to support bringing our clusters ONTAP versions to 9.12 so there is no option to rollback). NetApp support have directed us to this KB: Storage Replication Adapter: How to configure SRA in a SRM Shared Recovery Site - NetApp Knowledge Base<https://kb.netapp.com/mgmt/OTV/SRA/Storage_Replication_Adapter%3A_How_to_co…> Which suggests that to support this configuration the 2nd OTV needs to be run in VCF mode. However, in the guide for configuring VCF: VMware Cloud Foundation mode of deployment for ONTAP tools (netapp.com)<https://docs.netapp.com/us-en/ontap-tools-vmware-vsphere/deploy/vmware_clou…> It states: "You can only work with vVols datastores in the VCF deployment mode." We are using NFS datastores, not vVols. Does anyone have experience of this set up? Will it work as they have suggested? Or is there another way to register multiple OTV's to the one VC? TIA Chris. This email is being sent by a subsidiary of the Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. global group of companies. For details of the registered office, company number and, where applicable, regulated status of our subsidiaries, please visit https://www.ajg.com/uk/legal-and-regulatory-information. Your account executive will make clear at the beginning of the relationship which entity is providing services to you, or please refer to your Terms of Business Agreement. For information on how we use your personal data and how you may exercise your rights in respect of that information, please refer to our Privacy Notice https://www.ajg.com/uk/privacy-policy/. If you are providing us with personal data of another individual, you must tell them you are providing this to us and show them a copy of this notice. Please contact me if you do not want to receive direct marketing information from us. This e-mail and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, please telephone or e-mail us immediately, delete this message and do not copy, distribute or use the information in this message or any attachments.

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LDAP timeout errors since upgrade to 9.13.1
by Randy Rue 27 Jul '23

27 Jul '23

Hi All, Since upgrading to 9.13.1 our AFF/FAS on-premise cluster has an alert in the System Manager dashboard and shows us receiving these errors every hour or two: secd.ldap.noServers: None of the LDAP servers configured for Vserver (vfiler_name) are currently accessible via the network for LDAP service type (Service: LDAP (Active Directory), Operation: SiteDiscovery). We run a redundant pair of slapd LDAP servers presented via an F5 BigIP at a single IP. The SVMs LDAP settings include of a list of the F5's highly available IP and then the two back end servers. Nothing has changed with our LDAP service. The LDAP servers don't seem to be distressed and no other systems/services that touch our LDAP are complaining. Our NetApp SVMs don't seem to be dropping or bouncing any filer traffic. Has anything changed from 9.9 to 9.13 in the way ONTAP talks to LDAP? Is it chattier? More sensitive to lags? Randy

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