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SV: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage
by Heino Walther 29 Nov '22

29 Nov '22

Hi Florian The short answer is no. What the cloud-backup as you call it, does, it to move “older” datablocks to an S3 target or it can move blocks in your snapshots. So the information of where the blocks are stored is still in the original volume, and you need to back that information up either by SnapMirror/Vault or an NDMP dump. Also, if you plan using anything else than another ONTAP or StorageGRID, you will need to buy license… If you do not have another NetApp system to SnapMirror to, I would look into NDMP backup as an option… it is supported by most backup products like BackupExec etc… /Heino Fra: Florian Schmid <fschmid(a)ubimet.com> Dato: mandag, 28. november 2022 kl. 14.45 Til: toasters(a)teaparty.net <toasters(a)teaparty.net> Emne: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage Hi there, I wanted to ask, if someone knows or has this done already, if you can backup your on premise NetApp Ontap volumes to a 3rd party S3 storage. As far as I understand this so called "cloud-backup", it can send snapshot diffs (block based) to a S3 storage like AWS or on-premise StorageGrid nodes. But would this also work to 3rd party S3 storage tools like minIO? Let's image we have a huge on-premise S3 storage running minIO or what ever vendor, can I use this also as a target for my Ontap volume backup? NetApp itself is only mentioning 3rd party S3 storage for tiering, but not for backup. If this is not possible, is there another possibility to backup volume snapshot diffs to a non netapp storage? It must be block based and not file based backup. Best regards Florian

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Re:
by Sebastian Goetze 29 Nov '22

29 Nov '22

FYI: Technical Presentation: SnapMirror Cloud SE Presentation (9.12.1): https://fieldportal.netapp.com/content/1236843?assetComponentId=1239342 Sebastian On 28.11.2022 19:19, Michael Bergman via Toasters wrote: > From: > Michael Bergman via Toasters <toasters(a)teaparty.net> > Date: > 28.11.2022, 19:19 > > To: > Toasters <toasters(a)teaparty.net> > > > > Re: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage.eml > > Subject: > Re: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage > From: > Michael Bergman <michael.bergman(a)ericsson.com> > Date: > 28.11.2022, 19:19 > > To: > Toasters <toasters(a)teaparty.net> > > > On 2022-11-28 17:22, Douglas Siggins wrote: >> Can someone please clarify this for me? My understanding is that cloud >> backup is just scheduling the snap diff v3 to object storage. You could get >> similar functionality by any vendor that netapp approves, of which I believe >> there are 4 others? > First of all: nothing of what I write below has anything to do with "S3 > Bucket mirror" from a Primary ONTAP system which does S3 storage. > > CBS (Cloud Backup Service) is something that originally runs in-Cloud only. > That's where it was always meant to live. But now it can also run > "off-Cloud" (= on-prem), in something called NetApp Cloud Manager Dark Site > Edition. Which you'd then need to install in your own environment first, I > think it's a VM (ESXi) image for example. > CBS an orchestrator which uses SnapDiff v3 and leverage SnapMirror Cloud to > take "snapshots" (block diffs just like SnapMirror/-Vault does) and puts it > in an S3 Bucket. For on-prem S3 systems, only StorageGRID and ONTAP are > approved today. Not minIO or anything else. > > There are other vendors yes, tech partners, which have paid NetApp to use > SnapDiff v3 and SnapMirror Cloud in the same fashion CBS does. That product, > e.g. Cleondris Appliance or Rubrik Foundation Suite, then does all the > orchestration and configuration of your backups, the work that SnapVault > does inside ONTAP traditionally. That product will have to keep track of > all the files and blocks, what belongs where: all the backup metadata. All > that which a SnapVault target system's ONTAP (WAFL) will keep track of > traditionally. > > To use a 3rd party product in that list, you need to purchase something > called HCB (Hybrid Cloud Bundle) from NetApp. To enable the SM Cloud + > SnapDiff v3 from the ONTAP side so to speak. You have to pay for it per TiB > (Tebibyte) "physical used data" which you have backed up to your S3 target > system. The definition of this is as opposed to "logical used data" which > CBS uses. I won't go into the distinction here because I do not want to > cause even more confusion. All this*is* confusing, indeed. Talk to your > account team and force them to penetrate this and explain it to you properly! > > Douglas Siggins wrote: >> I tried getting licenses to try this on premise to ontap s3 and was >> immediately turned away. It's super unclear how netapp intends to position >> this cloud. Has anyone been able to try the inbuilt backup to an ontap or >> grid target? > Hm. Interesting. You were "turned away"...? By your account team at NetApp? > I agree that things are rather unclear around this. > If you wish to use CBS on-prem, then clearly as things have progressed these > days NetApp compete directly with their tech partners products: Rubrik, > Cleondris, ProLion, CommVault (those which have licensed SnapDiff v3). > The price models are in constant flux and have been for at least 12 months. > It's confusing and can only get better for us who have huge on-prem > environments and want to leverage at least some of the new in-Cloud > cleverness NetApp has come up with over the past 24 months. > > /M > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: SV: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage > Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 14:03:38 +0000 > From: Heino Walther<hw(a)beardmann.dk> > To: Florian Schmid<fschmid(a)ubimet.com>,"toasters(a)teaparty.net" > <toasters(a)teaparty.net> > > Hi Florian > > The short answer is no. > > What the cloud-backup as you call it, does, it to move older datablocks to > an S3 target or it can move blocks in your snapshots. > > So the information of where the blocks are stored is still in the original > volume, and you need to back that information up either by SnapMirror/Vault > or an NDMP dump. > > Also, if you plan using anything else than another ONTAP or StorageGRID, you > will need to buy license > > If you do not have another NetApp system to SnapMirror to, I would look into > NDMP backup as an option it is supported by most backup products like > BackupExec etc > > /Heino > > *Fra: *Florian Schmid<fschmid(a)ubimet.com> > *Dato: *mandag, 28. november 2022 kl. 14.45 > *Til: *toasters(a)teaparty.net<toasters(a)teaparty.net> > *Emne: *NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage > > Hi there, > > I wanted to ask, if someone knows or has this done already, if you can > backup your on premise NetApp Ontap volumes to a 3rd party S3 storage. > > As far as I understand this so called "cloud-backup", it can send snapshot > diffs (block based) to a S3 storage like AWS or on-premise StorageGrid nodes. > > But would this also work to 3rd party S3 storage tools like minIO? > > Let's image we have a huge on-premise S3 storage running minIO or what ever > vendor, can I use this also as a target for my Ontap volume backup? > > NetApp itself is only mentioning 3rd party S3 storage for tiering, but not > for backup. > > If this is not possible, is there another possibility to backup volume > snapshot diffs to a non netapp storage? It must be block based and not file > based backup. > > Best regards > Florian > > > _______________________________________________ > Toasters mailing list > Toasters(a)teaparty.net > https://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters > Attachments: > > Re: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage.eml 14,0 KB >

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(no subject)
by Fred Grieco 28 Nov '22

28 Nov '22

I don't believe this would happen just within Netapp software. You would need a 3rd party data mover (backup software - netbackup, rubrik). It would also need to support snapdiff if you just want to be reading diffs. Many of these products will write only incrementals to the s3 back and storage though, regardless of how its reading the data. On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 8:58 AM, Florian Schmid via Toasters<toasters(a)teaparty.net> wrote: Hi there, I wanted to ask, if someone knows or has this done already, if you can backup your on premise NetApp Ontap volumes to a 3rd party S3 storage. As far as I understand this so called "cloud-backup", it can send snapshot diffs (block based) to a S3 storage like AWS or on-premise StorageGrid nodes. But would this also work to 3rd party S3 storage tools like minIO? Let's image we have a huge on-premise S3 storage running minIO or what ever vendor, can I use this also as a target for my Ontap volume backup? NetApp itself is only mentioning 3rd party S3 storage for tiering, but not for backup. If this is not possible, is there another possibility to backup volume snapshot diffs to a non netapp storage? It must be block based and not file based backup. Best regards Florian _______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters(a)teaparty.net https://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

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Re:
by Basil 28 Nov '22

28 Nov '22

Hi Florian, According to their marketing materials ( https://docs.netapp.com/us-en/cloud-manager-backup-restore/concept-ontap-ba…) they still only support storagegrid for on prem object storage. Strategically, I believe they are using this as a way to gain on-prem object storage footprint in customer accounts. Sticking to block-based solutions means playing by their rules. Cheers! Basil On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 8:48 AM Florian Schmid via Toasters < toasters(a)teaparty.net> wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Florian Schmid <fschmid(a)ubimet.com> > To: toasters(a)teaparty.net > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 13:45:28 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage > Hi there, > > I wanted to ask, if someone knows or has this done already, if you can > backup your on premise NetApp Ontap volumes to a 3rd party S3 storage. > > As far as I understand this so called "cloud-backup", it can send snapshot > diffs (block based) to a S3 storage like AWS or on-premise StorageGrid > nodes. > > But would this also work to 3rd party S3 storage tools like minIO? > > Let's image we have a huge on-premise S3 storage running minIO or what > ever vendor, can I use this also as a target for my Ontap volume backup? > > NetApp itself is only mentioning 3rd party S3 storage for tiering, but not > for backup. > > If this is not possible, is there another possibility to backup volume > snapshot diffs to a non netapp storage? > It must be block based and not file based backup. > > Best regards > Florian > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Florian Schmid via Toasters <toasters(a)teaparty.net> > To: toasters(a)teaparty.net > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 13:45:44 GMT > Subject: > _______________________________________________ > Toasters mailing list > Toasters(a)teaparty.net > https://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

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NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage
by Florian Schmid 28 Nov '22

28 Nov '22

Hi there, I wanted to ask, if someone knows or has this done already, if you can backup your on premise NetApp Ontap volumes to a 3rd party S3 storage. As far as I understand this so called "cloud-backup", it can send snapshot diffs (block based) to a S3 storage like AWS or on-premise StorageGrid nodes. But would this also work to 3rd party S3 storage tools like minIO? Let's image we have a huge on-premise S3 storage running minIO or what ever vendor, can I use this also as a target for my Ontap volume backup? NetApp itself is only mentioning 3rd party S3 storage for tiering, but not for backup. If this is not possible, is there another possibility to backup volume snapshot diffs to a non netapp storage? It must be block based and not file based backup. Best regards Florian

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Does NetApp still sell physical file servers?
by Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming 19 Aug '22

19 Aug '22

Subject: Does NetApp still sell physical file servers? Good day from Singapore, Does NetApp still sell physical file servers? I read from Wikipedia that NetApp, Inc. is an American hybrid cloud data services and data management company headquartered in San Jose, California. It has ranked in the Fortune 500 from 2012–2021. Founded in 1992 with an IPO in 1995, NetApp offers cloud data services for management of applications and data both online and physically. I see that NetApp has ventured into the cloud. Thank you. Regards, Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming Targeted Individual in Singapore 12 Aug 2022 Fri Blogs: https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.com https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com

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Cluster Node Distance
by Heino Walther 09 Aug '22

09 Aug '22

Hi there We are in the process of migrating from one DC to another DC which is about 2KM appart. We have a standard HA-Two node A300 which we would like to migrate out to the new DC without any down time. We have several 10G lines between the two sites with Cisco networking equipment. I seem to recall that officielly NetApp only supports about 3-400M between the cluster nodes, but I cannot see why it should not be possible to extend this distance to the 2KM we need? I doubt the systems will notice. This is of cause only as a part of the migration process, so we setup another A300 cluster with disks at the new DC and add them to the existing cluster over the 2KM distance, then move over the volumes and interfaces nice an easy. When we have moved everything, we remove the two (now empty) nodes to the new DC, join them to the cluster and move the data back again. Has anyone tried this over this kind of distances? We have official CN1610 but after looking at the Cisco RFC’s from NetApp I think we might as well just create this network on our own Cisco equipment. If this is a no-go, are there any other options, short of converting it into a MetroCluster? 😉 /Heino

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CVO on Standard/SATA PD
by Jeff Mohler 06 Aug '22

06 Aug '22

Does anyone here have experience on a standard PD layer using CVO? If so, I am looking for -throughput- maximus, limitations, lessons learned, on per volume write workloads. We are in a mode where we believe we were told there are 100-200MB/sec write "edges" of throughput to CVO on standard PD storage...just we're not quite in shape here to test that yet ourselves. _________________________________ Jeff Mohler <jmohler(a)yahooinc.com> Sr. Storage Architect & Principal Yahoo Storage Engineering & Operations (831)454-6712 It puts the bundles in the buckets, or else it gets the hose again.

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Re:
by André M. Clark 06 Aug '22

06 Aug '22

Check to see if your volumes are thin provisioned on the destination side. By default, they would not be thin provisioned. Regards, André M. Clark On August 5, 2022 at 11:03:13, Timothy Naple via Toasters ( toasters(a)teaparty.net) wrote: My first guess would be that you might somehow be retaining more snapshots on the destination, perhaps at the volume level? snap list for all the volumes is identical on source and destination? Does df -h on both sides show which volumes, if any, have a size discrepancy? Maybe a 2nd guess would be that the space guarantee settings are different on the destination volumes. ------------------------------ *From:* Toasters <toasters-bounces(a)teaparty.net> on behalf of Heino Walther <hw(a)beardmann.dk> *Sent:* Friday, August 5, 2022 7:31 AM *To:* toasters(a)teaparty.net <toasters(a)teaparty.net> *Subject:* Space issues on older NetApp... Hi there We have two systems that mirror eachothers volumes via snapmirror. We are talking 7mode ONTAP 8.1.4 The two systems have the same controller: FAS3240 They have the same disks and aggregate configuration (70TB aggregates) On the source side we use volumes that are thin-provisioned with LUNs that have space reservation enabled, the LUNs are mostly close to 16TB (which is max) All volumes are snapmirrored to volumes on the destination system with the same size and placed on the same aggregates that mirror the source aggregates in size… The aggregates on the source are all below 95% used. Yet.. we are now at the situation where a few destination aggregates are 100% full, while the source aggregates are still under 95% used… I have checked almost everything, like aggregate snapshot reserves etc.. but they should be the same… Can anyone explain why this can happen? We are of cause at a “deadlock” now.. I don’t think we can add anymore disks to the aggregates as they are max size… The only think I can think of is either delete a volume from the affected aggregates, and re-sync the volume and hope it doesn’t fill up again… Another way would be to add disks and build a new aggregate, and move some of the volumes… Is there something I have missed? 😊 /Heino _______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters(a)teaparty.net https://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

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Space issues on older NetApp...
by Heino Walther 06 Aug '22

06 Aug '22

Hi there We have two systems that mirror eachothers volumes via snapmirror. We are talking 7mode ONTAP 8.1.4 The two systems have the same controller: FAS3240 They have the same disks and aggregate configuration (70TB aggregates) On the source side we use volumes that are thin-provisioned with LUNs that have space reservation enabled, the LUNs are mostly close to 16TB (which is max) All volumes are snapmirrored to volumes on the destination system with the same size and placed on the same aggregates that mirror the source aggregates in size… The aggregates on the source are all below 95% used. Yet.. we are now at the situation where a few destination aggregates are 100% full, while the source aggregates are still under 95% used… I have checked almost everything, like aggregate snapshot reserves etc.. but they should be the same… Can anyone explain why this can happen? We are of cause at a “deadlock” now.. I don’t think we can add anymore disks to the aggregates as they are max size… The only think I can think of is either delete a volume from the affected aggregates, and re-sync the volume and hope it doesn’t fill up again… Another way would be to add disks and build a new aggregate, and move some of the volumes… Is there something I have missed? 😊 /Heino

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