toasters August 2009

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

19 participants
18 discussions

Netapp and VMware... It's all so confusing!
by Timothy Hollingworth 01 Apr '10

01 Apr '10

So, say for example, I want to virtualize an Exchange server. Lets also say that I want to manage it via Snapdrive and SME. Lets also say, just for the heck of it, that I want both the new front-engined Acura NSX as well as the Porsche RC3. The cars aside, I would have to run iSCSI from within the VM, install and use Snapdrive from within the VM to provision LUNs, install Exchange and then use SME? It seems kind of silly to use iSCSI from within a VM if the ESX box were fiber attached to the Filer, just to be able to use Snapdrive and SME, no? I would love to be able to use the features of SD and SME within a completely virtual environment and am wondering what some real world implementations other VMware/Netapp customers are running. Do you run storage for the databases and logs in VMDK's and manage snapshots and backups from a VMware virtual machine perspective or do you manage them as iSCSI LUNs and use SD and SME? Or am I completely blind and missing something? Timothy L. Hollingworth Sr. Network Engineer, ePlus Technology Inc. 678.462.6698 (cell) AIM: HollingworthTim YIM: t_holling

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Re: Other OPS?
by Mike 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

Metadata work, mostly - directory crawls, access checks, things like that (in CIFS). In NFS, ACCESS, READDIR, READDIR+ , stuff like that. I think you can use 'cifs top -s ops' to see the busiest clients hitting the system. If the ones at the top have very high ops, but not many reads/writes, those could be your guys. That said, it's all about latency. If it isn't driving latency higher, shouldn't be a concern. Those are different stats commands, though, can't remember right now...... --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Page, Jeremy <jeremy.page(a)gilbarco.com> wrote: > From: Page, Jeremy <jeremy.page(a)gilbarco.com> > Subject: Other OPS? > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 3:10 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What > causes other ops? > I understand that pretty much everything that hits the > filer requires something > but I am seeing what looks like a very high number of other > ops when I do a > stats show. Does this indicate a problem or is it just a > busy box? It’s > a mixed mode volume. Just trying to figure out what’s > causing it to work > so hard. > > > > > > Instance > total_ops read_ops write_ops other_ops nfs_read_ops > nfs_write_op nfs_other_op > cifs_read_op cifs_write_o cifs_other_o > > > /s > /s > /s > /s > /s > /s > /s > /s > /s > /s > > > shares > 1633 > 984 > 139 > 509 > 0 > 1 > 34 > 984 > 137 > 473 > > > shares > 2085 > 1173 > 257 > 654 > 0 > 2 > 18 > 1173 > 255 > 634 > > > shares > 2593 > 1483 > 253 > 856 > 0 > 2 > 221 > 1483 > 251 > 634 > > > shares > 3268 > 2306 > 170 > 791 > 0 > 1 > 222 > 2305 > 168 > 569 > > > > > > > > > > > > Please be advised that this email may contain confidential > information. > > If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, > copy or > > re-transmit this email. If you have received this email in > error, > > please notify us by email by replying to the sender and by > telephone > > (call us collect at +1 202-828-0850) and delete this > message and any > > attachments. Thank you in advance for your cooperation and > assistance. > > > > In addition, Danaher and its subsidiaries disclaim that the > content of > > this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the > acceptance of, > > any > > contract or agreement or any amendment thereto; provided > that the > > foregoing disclaimer does not invalidate the binding effect > of any > > digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual > signature that is > > included in any attachment to this email. > >

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SMVI / VMWare Experiences...
by Ken Williams 14 Sep '09

14 Sep '09

I'm looking for some experiences people out there may have with SMVI with NetApp. We're currently experiencing major issues with SMVI snapshots failing. I've had open tickets with NetApp/VMWare/Microsoft for 3 months and still have yet to have a solution. My environment looks like such: * 6 x HP DL380 G5 (32gb Ram) in a ESX Cluster * Dual Emulex 10000 Cards in each host. * Cisco MDS SAN * Netapp FAS3070 Cluster ~9tb aggregate for VMWare. * VMFS Datastores ~10-15 VMs per datastore. ~50gb per VM. * ASIS Turned on * Volume and LUNspace reservation turned off * OnTap 7.2.5.1 * Windows 2003 Guest OS. I cant see us reaching any limitation on the Filers or the SAN. Yet we have random VMs failing snapshots every night. Are other people seeing these issues? (I've gone through the gamut of troubleshooting, version management of ESX/VMWareTools/etc). Snapshots timeout and fail at the VMWare/Guest level, not at the Netapp snapshot level. We want to have SMVI function with VSS enabled. Has anyone had failing snapshots been able to resolve a similar issue? Or does anyone have SMVI working properly that we could use as a reference to compare configuration? __________________________________________________________ Ken Williams Storage Administrator, Business Technology Operations Sacramento Municipal Utility District E-Mail: kwillia(a)smud.org Phone: (916) 732-6744 Cell: (916) 240-4213

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SQL 2005 reacts badly to a cluster giveback ?
by Raj Patel 06 Sep '09

06 Sep '09

Hi. We've had a couple of cluster-failover events on our FAS270c (watchdog errors every time) on 7.2.5.1 The failover is fine (AFAIK) when one of the nodes reboots - however in the Giveback it appears that the SQL server has a couple of initiator errors events logged and although the drives are visible (and working in terms of I/O) and the SQL services are still running any SQL dependent applications just don't work after the giveback. As soon as I stop/start the SQL services its all back to normal (or I reboot the box). Server is Windows 2003sp2, its a VM on ESX3.5, the iSCSI interface goes through a dedicated iSCSI NIC (a virtual switch which also carries the ESX iSCSI LUN's) Snapdrive is 6.01, iSCSI initiator is 2.03 and its a 32bit VM. Oddly Exchange didn't miss a beat (they're physical Windows 2008 64 bit servers) but SQL was definitely unhappy (even though the SQL service itself carried on - ie it didn't stop). Any ideas ? I note theres a newer iSCSI initiator available (2.08) from Microsoft. I'm pretty sure we haven't had this Giveback issue with our old SnapDrive 4.2.1 setup on the same server. Thanks in advance, Raj.

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Re: unix UID change on NTFS file systems
by Tim Thomas 28 Aug '09

28 Aug '09

Sorry, perhaps I was not clear. We are not using mixed security style on our qtrees. and our userids do map properly between the UNIX and Windows worlds. We use a combination of NTFS and UNIX security style across our 50+ filers. So if you have a user that has files in both NTFS and UNIX qtrees with say UID 1000, and then you change them to UID 1025, you simply chown the files in the UNIX qtree from 1000 to 1025, however if you do an LS on the NTFS file system it still shows 1000 and that is because the filer embeds the UNIX UID in the NTFS file. Why? You tell me... Sure they still have access, but the LS sure is deceiving. Tim Webster, Stetson wrote: > In mixed environments, I usually recommend NTFS qtrees (not mixed) and > then make sure that the users map properly between platforms. Whenever > a unix user (NFS on NTFS qtree) tries to access the file, because the > qtree is NTFS, the storage controller will always pursue CIFS > credentials for the file(s). The results will always be predictable and > will depend on what the CIFS permissions are for that equivalent unix ID > coming across in NFS. > > Additionally, depending on your environment, here are some other ideas: > > Unified Windows and UNIX Authorization Using Microsoft Active Directory > LDAP as a Directory Store: > http://www.netapp.com/us/library/technical-reports/tr-3458.html > > Unified Windows and UNIX Authentication Using Microsoft Active Directory > Kerberos: > http://www.netapp.com/us/library/technical-reports/tr-3457.html > > I'm a big unix guy, but I also believe in simplification. Let the > Windows shops handle authentication, etc and let the unix guys move on > to the bigger projects (just my $0.02). > > Good luck! > > > Stetson M. Webster > Professional Services Consultant > NCIE-SAN, NCIE-B&R, SNIA-SCSN-E > NetApp Professional Services - East > 919.250.0052 Mobile > Stetson.Webster(a)netapp.com > Learn how: netapp.com/guarantee > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Thomas [mailto:timothy.b.thomas@lmco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:14 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: unix UID change on NTFS file systems > > Has anyone run into the situation where you have a mixed environment > (NIS/NFS for UNIX access; AD/CIFS for NTFS access) and in the process of > > changing a UNIX UID for a user it does not properly show the change for > NTFS files when viewed via NFS from a UNIX box? If you run fsecurity on > the ntfs file you can see that it does imbed the UNIX UID in the NTFS > file itself. For unix files, it's no problem, you just chown the file to > > the new UID, however there does not appear to be any solution for NTFS > files. I had a case open with NetApp and they say it is "merely > cosmetic" and doesn't actually impact the file access or security of the > > file, which is all true. However if you do an LS from a unix box and see > > a bogus UID for a user that no longer exists, you might think the file > doesn't need to be around, which is a false assumption in this case. It > is merely cosmetic, however it can be horribly misleading. Why store the > > UID in the first place if you can't correct it when it changes. > > Anyway, any insights would be appreciated. > > Thanks! > > Tim Thomas > Lockheed Martin > > >

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RE: SMVI / VMWare Experiences...
by Ken Williams 27 Aug '09

27 Aug '09

Thanks for the response! No iSCSI here, I've been over the best practices, we're pretty close to what's laid out there. -----Original Message----- From: Sels Roger [mailto:roger.sels@uptimegroup.be] Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:30 PM To: Ken Williams Cc: Klise, Steve; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: SMVI / VMWare Experiences... Hi, you might be hitting the "VMware bug" as described in https://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=kb48102 . Also take a look at chapter 8 of http://media.netapp.com/documents/tr-3737.pdf . Cheers, Roger On 27-aug-09, at 02:18, Ken Williams wrote: > Thank you for the input. > > I disagree with the "If you can do a VM snapshot, then its an issue > with SMVI." statement. VM Snapshots do not do the same functions as a > SMVI snapshot call to the ESX API (As per VMWare Technical Support). > This is definably a communication between VSS/GuestOS/ESX Host issue. > Or some greater misconfiguration... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Klise, Steve [mailto:klises@pamf.org] > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:09 PM > To: Ken Williams; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: SMVI / VMWare Experiences... > > Couple things you have hit on, but I will regurgitate, > > > * > Make sure you have the latest tools installed WITH THE VSS > OPTION. A reboot is required > * > check for any SMVI snapshots. We run a morning monitoring > report that has this. Its great and anyone running ESX should use it. > * > I have had issues with timeouts. If you can do a VM snapshot, > then its an issue with SMVI. If you can't you need to start there. > * > I have seen issues with older 2.5.x and 3.x that neededt the > hardware upgraded on the VM. > * > check disk timeouts > > here were a couple of other things I ran across: > > > > Solution > > > > SnapManager for VI utilizes an internal database to keep track of > these locks and provides persistence across reboots. Simply rebooting > the SnapManager for VI host will not clear these locks. > > > > If you want to remove all currently running tasks in SMVI, perform the > following: > > > > 1. Stop SnapManager for VI service. > > 2. Remove the <SMVI dir>/server/crashdb directory. > > 3. Start SnapManager for VI service. > > Performing these steps will not affect the scheduled jobs nor remove > them from the interface. It will kill and remove any outstanding or in > process tasks > > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on behalf of Ken Williams > Sent: Wed 8/26/2009 2:32 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: SMVI / VMWare Experiences... > > > > I'm looking for some experiences people out there may have with SMVI > with NetApp. We're currently experiencing major issues with SMVI > snapshots failing. I've had open tickets with NetApp/VMWare/Microsoft > for 3 months and still have yet to have a solution. > > My environment looks like such: > > * 6 x HP DL380 G5 (32gb Ram) in a ESX Cluster > * Dual Emulex 10000 Cards in each host. > * Cisco MDS SAN > * Netapp FAS3070 Cluster ~9tb aggregate for VMWare. > * VMFS Datastores ~10-15 VMs per datastore. ~50gb per VM. > * ASIS Turned on > * Volume and LUNspace reservation turned off > * OnTap 7.2.5.1 > * Windows 2003 Guest OS. > > > I cant see us reaching any limitation on the Filers or the SAN. Yet we > have random VMs failing snapshots every night. Are other people seeing > these issues? (I've gone through the gamut of troubleshooting, version > management of ESX/VMWareTools/etc). Snapshots timeout and fail at the > VMWare/Guest level, not at the Netapp snapshot level. > > We want to have SMVI function with VSS enabled. > > Has anyone had failing snapshots been able to resolve a similar issue? > Or does anyone have SMVI working properly that we could use as a > reference to compare configuration? > > __________________________________________________________ > Ken Williams > Storage Administrator, Business Technology Operations Sacramento > Municipal Utility District > E-Mail: kwillia(a)smud.org > Phone: (916) 732-6744 > Cell: (916) 240-4213 > > > >

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RE: SMVI / VMWare Experiences...
by Ken Williams 27 Aug '09

27 Aug '09

Its much appreciated. I'm at my wits end. I've been working with VMWare/Netapp/Microsoft for quite some time on this issue. ESX 3.5 Up4 Not always the same VMs, low load vms at that. Yes it is the 15 min timeout window. -----Original Message----- From: Klise, Steve [mailto:klises@pamf.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:50 PM To: Ken Williams; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: SMVI / VMWare Experiences... The comment was more of a troubleshooting step. My bad. I have had problems with "busy" servers. I had to stop the "busy making" service. For example. I am running dfm 3.8 and I have to stop the db service before the snapshot. Seemed to band aid the problem. What version of esx and release r u on? Is it always the same vm's that fail? Is it the 15 minute timeout during the snapshot? ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Williams <kwillia(a)smud.org> To: Klise, Steve; toasters(a)mathworks.com <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Sent: Wed Aug 26 17:18:12 2009 Subject: RE: SMVI / VMWare Experiences... Thank you for the input. I disagree with the "If you can do a VM snapshot, then its an issue with SMVI." statement. VM Snapshots do not do the same functions as a SMVI snapshot call to the ESX API (As per VMWare Technical Support). This is definably a communication between VSS/GuestOS/ESX Host issue. Or some greater misconfiguration... -----Original Message----- From: Klise, Steve [mailto:klises@pamf.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:09 PM To: Ken Williams; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: SMVI / VMWare Experiences... Couple things you have hit on, but I will regurgitate, * Make sure you have the latest tools installed WITH THE VSS OPTION. A reboot is required * check for any SMVI snapshots. We run a morning monitoring report that has this. Its great and anyone running ESX should use it. * I have had issues with timeouts. If you can do a VM snapshot, then its an issue with SMVI. If you can't you need to start there. * I have seen issues with older 2.5.x and 3.x that neededt the hardware upgraded on the VM. * check disk timeouts here were a couple of other things I ran across: Solution SnapManager for VI utilizes an internal database to keep track of these locks and provides persistence across reboots. Simply rebooting the SnapManager for VI host will not clear these locks. If you want to remove all currently running tasks in SMVI, perform the following: 1. Stop SnapManager for VI service. 2. Remove the <SMVI dir>/server/crashdb directory. 3. Start SnapManager for VI service. Performing these steps will not affect the scheduled jobs nor remove them from the interface. It will kill and remove any outstanding or in process tasks ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on behalf of Ken Williams Sent: Wed 8/26/2009 2:32 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SMVI / VMWare Experiences... I'm looking for some experiences people out there may have with SMVI with NetApp. We're currently experiencing major issues with SMVI snapshots failing. I've had open tickets with NetApp/VMWare/Microsoft for 3 months and still have yet to have a solution. My environment looks like such: * 6 x HP DL380 G5 (32gb Ram) in a ESX Cluster * Dual Emulex 10000 Cards in each host. * Cisco MDS SAN * Netapp FAS3070 Cluster ~9tb aggregate for VMWare. * VMFS Datastores ~10-15 VMs per datastore. ~50gb per VM. * ASIS Turned on * Volume and LUNspace reservation turned off * OnTap 7.2.5.1 * Windows 2003 Guest OS. I cant see us reaching any limitation on the Filers or the SAN. Yet we have random VMs failing snapshots every night. Are other people seeing these issues? (I've gone through the gamut of troubleshooting, version management of ESX/VMWareTools/etc). Snapshots timeout and fail at the VMWare/Guest level, not at the Netapp snapshot level. We want to have SMVI function with VSS enabled. Has anyone had failing snapshots been able to resolve a similar issue? Or does anyone have SMVI working properly that we could use as a reference to compare configuration? __________________________________________________________ Ken Williams Storage Administrator, Business Technology Operations Sacramento Municipal Utility District E-Mail: kwillia(a)smud.org Phone: (916) 732-6744 Cell: (916) 240-4213

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RE: SMVI / VMWare Experiences...
by Ken Williams 27 Aug '09

27 Aug '09

Thank you for the input. I disagree with the "If you can do a VM snapshot, then its an issue with SMVI." statement. VM Snapshots do not do the same functions as a SMVI snapshot call to the ESX API (As per VMWare Technical Support). This is definably a communication between VSS/GuestOS/ESX Host issue. Or some greater misconfiguration... -----Original Message----- From: Klise, Steve [mailto:klises@pamf.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:09 PM To: Ken Williams; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: SMVI / VMWare Experiences... Couple things you have hit on, but I will regurgitate, * Make sure you have the latest tools installed WITH THE VSS OPTION. A reboot is required * check for any SMVI snapshots. We run a morning monitoring report that has this. Its great and anyone running ESX should use it. * I have had issues with timeouts. If you can do a VM snapshot, then its an issue with SMVI. If you can't you need to start there. * I have seen issues with older 2.5.x and 3.x that neededt the hardware upgraded on the VM. * check disk timeouts here were a couple of other things I ran across: Solution SnapManager for VI utilizes an internal database to keep track of these locks and provides persistence across reboots. Simply rebooting the SnapManager for VI host will not clear these locks. If you want to remove all currently running tasks in SMVI, perform the following: 1. Stop SnapManager for VI service. 2. Remove the <SMVI dir>/server/crashdb directory. 3. Start SnapManager for VI service. Performing these steps will not affect the scheduled jobs nor remove them from the interface. It will kill and remove any outstanding or in process tasks ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on behalf of Ken Williams Sent: Wed 8/26/2009 2:32 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SMVI / VMWare Experiences... I'm looking for some experiences people out there may have with SMVI with NetApp. We're currently experiencing major issues with SMVI snapshots failing. I've had open tickets with NetApp/VMWare/Microsoft for 3 months and still have yet to have a solution. My environment looks like such: * 6 x HP DL380 G5 (32gb Ram) in a ESX Cluster * Dual Emulex 10000 Cards in each host. * Cisco MDS SAN * Netapp FAS3070 Cluster ~9tb aggregate for VMWare. * VMFS Datastores ~10-15 VMs per datastore. ~50gb per VM. * ASIS Turned on * Volume and LUNspace reservation turned off * OnTap 7.2.5.1 * Windows 2003 Guest OS. I cant see us reaching any limitation on the Filers or the SAN. Yet we have random VMs failing snapshots every night. Are other people seeing these issues? (I've gone through the gamut of troubleshooting, version management of ESX/VMWareTools/etc). Snapshots timeout and fail at the VMWare/Guest level, not at the Netapp snapshot level. We want to have SMVI function with VSS enabled. Has anyone had failing snapshots been able to resolve a similar issue? Or does anyone have SMVI working properly that we could use as a reference to compare configuration? __________________________________________________________ Ken Williams Storage Administrator, Business Technology Operations Sacramento Municipal Utility District E-Mail: kwillia(a)smud.org Phone: (916) 732-6744 Cell: (916) 240-4213

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RE: Force directory mode, uid, gid, & mask
by Jeff Mery 26 Aug '09

26 Aug '09

AHH! That looks like it! We may be able to work around the user issue as long as we can force the group. Much appreciated!! Jeff Mery - MCSE, MCP National Instruments --------------------- sunrise > sunset --------------------- From: "Borzenkov, Andrey" <andrey.borzenkov(a)ts.fujitsu.com> To: Jeff Mery <jeff.mery(a)ni.com> Cc: "toasters(a)mathworks.com" <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Date: 08/26/2009 12:06 AM Subject: RE: Force directory mode, uid, gid, & mask You can force group by using CIFS share -forcegroup option. You also can indirectly control file creation mode by using CIFS share -umask and/or -dir_umask ,-file_umask options. It is opposite to SAMBA - i.e. to set default filemode to 644 you apparently need set -file_umask=133 I do not know of any way to force user of newly created files. Also keep in mind that this applies only to files created via CIFS share. Files created by NFS clients will get whatever Unix client specify. ? ????????? / With best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen --- Andrey Borzenkov Senior system engineer -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Mery Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:15 AM To: Jeff Mery Cc: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Force directory mode, uid, gid, & mask I failed to mention that all exports are currently from unix security styled qtrees. Switching to ntfs is an option. >Hi All, > >First the basics - this is on a 3040A running 7.3.1.1P2. We also have a >dev environment that is a 940C running 7.3.1.1P2 (not that the hardware >should matter). Anyway... > >With ONTAP, is there a way to force the directory mode, uid, gid and mask >of files? Here's our use-case: > >We currently have numerous Solaris systems that have been running Samba >for years. As part of an upgrade, we're looking to move this Samba-shared >data from the local Solaris systems to our 3040A. The Solaris boxes would >mount things up via NFS and users would hit the data via CIFS from our >filers. > >Most of the existing Samba shares are very vanilla. However, we have more >than a handful that are setup with the aforementioned options. An example >Samba config would be as follows: > >- Force User Creation = foo >- Force Group = bar >- Create Mask = 644 >- Force Directory Mode = 775 > >Is there any way to accomplish this on a filer? I'm working through the >historical business reasons for all of these scenarios. It may be >possible to change/update them, but I figured I'd check here first. > >There is the anon= option for the NFS exports, but that's not really >applicable here. We need the data dropped off via CIFS to have the forced >options above when accessed via NFS. I haven't been able to find anything >at NOW or in the documentation. Jeff Mery - MCSE, MCP National Instruments --------------------- sunrise > sunset ---------------------

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Force directory mode, uid, gid, & mask
by Jeff Mery 25 Aug '09

25 Aug '09

Hi All, First the basics - this is on a 3040A running 7.3.1.1P2. We also have a dev environment that is a 940C running 7.3.1.1P2 (not that the hardware should matter). Anyway... With ONTAP, is there a way to force the directory mode, uid, gid and mask of files? Here's our use-case: We currently have numerous Solaris systems that have been running Samba for years. As part of an upgrade, we're looking to move this Samba-shared data from the local Solaris systems to our 3040A. The Solaris boxes would mount things up via NFS and users would hit the data via CIFS from our filers. Most of the existing Samba shares are very vanilla. However, we have more than a handful that are setup with the aforementioned options. An example Samba config would be as follows: - Force User Creation = foo - Force Group = bar - Create Mask = 644 - Force Directory Mode = 775 Is there any way to accomplish this on a filer? I'm working through the historical business reasons for all of these scenarios. It may be possible to change/update them, but I figured I'd check here first. There is the anon= option for the NFS exports, but that's not really applicable here. We need the data dropped off via CIFS to have the forced options above when accessed via NFS. I haven't been able to find anything at NOW or in the documentation. TIA, Jeff Mery - MCSE, MCP National Instruments --------------------- sunrise > sunset ---------------------

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toasters August 2009