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13520 discussions

Re: Mark Conley's comments on used NetApp systems
by mds＠gbnet.net 18 Jan '01

18 Jan '01

I'd just like to pitch in and say that a healthy used NetApp market would be a fine thing indeed for those of us who would like to buy the equipment but can't normally afford it. If the software licenses transferred, NetApp would still have made their main money from the original sale. Support, however, *should* be a different ball-game, and people shouldn't be able to just transfer the client-NetApp relationship with the hardware automatically and purchasers of 2nd-hand hardware shouldn't expect to get support from NetApp without paying for it. NetApp could, of course, offer support tiers, allowing for software updates separate from hardware RMA, separate from SE on-site attendance. This would allow the budget-limited and the 2nd-hand market to benefit and grow, while not missing out on the support bucks that people would be willing to spend with them. Support can be a viable revenue stream and not just something that you do to keep selling hardware. Just look at the Enhanced Margin Company - they get you coming and going! I've observed before (but possibly not here) that products in NetApp's line get EOL'd rather more aggressively than other maufacturers products (Sun, IBM, HP, even SGI all sell/support old models longer). Having a viable re-sale market could also take the sting out of that policy. I guess it all comes down to whether it could be seen to be made to benefit NetApp's bottom-line and medium-long term plans or not. I'd like to think it could be. -- -Mark ... an Englishman in London ...

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Add more disks and upgrade to 6.0 - which first?
by Chris Thompson 18 Jan '01

18 Jan '01

There are two things I want to do within the next three months or so, neither of them urgent: 1. Add 2 x 18GB discs (currently spare) to a volume that currently has 6 x 18 GB data discs. 2. Upgrade the F740 from ONTAP 5.3.7R? to 6.0.1R?. Is there any advantage to be gained by doing these in any particular order? Chris Thompson University of Cambridge Computing Service, Email: cet1(a)ucs.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG, Phone: +44 1223 334715 United Kingdom.

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FW: Multicast support in ONTAP?
by Rainchik, Aleksandr (MED, Non GE) 18 Jan '01

18 Jan '01

Hello, Can I ask you about that "Solaris's IP network multipathing failover and fallback" you've mentioned on toasters mailing list: Is is something that Solaris 8 has right out of box? Or you need to purchase additional pieces of software, like Sun Trunking or Sun Cluster Services, to implement such a feature? We are mostly Solaris 7 shop right now, but we really need this feature, so I just wonder if moving to 8 will do it. TIA -- Aleksandr Rainchik, Sun CSA -----Original Message----- From: Brian L. Brush [mailto:brian@paradyne.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 1:48 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Multicast support in ONTAP? I'm experimenting with back-to-back (crossover) links between Sun boxes and filers. Specifically, I'm trying to use Solaris 8's IP network multipathing failover and fallback with such connections. The problem is that Solaris is unable to recognize the failure of a NIC directly connected to a filer. In testing, the feature works as expected on our normal switched network. Solaris's IP network multipathing failover and fallback (what a mouthful!) works by initially sending multicast ICMP echo requests (to ALL-SYSTEMS.MCAST.net). The Solaris box relies on routers and hosts to respond to the multicast requests. Then it sends periodic unicast ICMP echo requests to those specific routers/hosts and knows a NIC has failed when the responses stop. Snoop on the Solaris box reveals the filer is not responding to the multicast requests. The Solaris box, therefore, never even begins its monitoring because it thinks there is nothing to ping. Here is an excerpt: 192.168.0.5 -> ALL-SYSTEMS.MCAST.net ICMP Echo request (ID: 8194 Sequence number: 1) 192.168.0.5 -> ALL-SYSTEMS.MCAST.net ICMP Echo request (ID: 8194 Sequence number: 1) 192.168.0.5 -> ALL-SYSTEMS.MCAST.net ICMP Echo request (ID: 8194 Sequence number: 1) The filer is definitely sitting on the other end of the cable: ping -s 192.168.0.1 PING 192.168.0.1: 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=0. time=1. ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=1. time=0. ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=2. time=0. ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=3. time=0. ms Solaris box is an Ultra 1 with Solaris 8 10/00. Filer is an F760 running Data ONTAP 5.3.7. We've tested Sun ge to NetApp gigabit and also Sun hme to NetApp quad fast ethernet. I'm interested in hearing any suggestions that might make this configuration work. --Brian L. Brush Senior Systems Administrator Paradyne Corporation

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RE: 6.0.1R1 Filerview -- How to print
by Darragh, Stephen J 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

Found the answer right after I sent the request. You have to open the frame in a new browser window so you can print. Sorry Stephen Darragh > -----Original Message----- > From: Darragh, Stephen J [SMTP:stephen.j.darragh@lmco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 8:39 AM > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: 6.0.1R1 Filerview -- How to print > > I hope this is one of those questions that I will say "of course, why > didn't > I see that". > > 6.0.1R1 filerview running from netscape 4.7.5 on a sun solaris 8 system. > > There are now a great number of reports and disk information, but I can't > see how to print them. > There is no CTRL-P, or alt-click to bring up a print option. > > I could use xwd, but there must be a simple way that I am just missing. > > Thanks in advance... > > Stephen Darragh

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RE: /home layout with many filers and NIS automount
by Rainchik, Aleksandr (MED, Non GE) 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

There is another thing against > #auto_home NIS map > user1 filer2:/vol/vol1/& design. We have a lot of development servers. So any time you add/delete/modify a single user you should go trough _all_ the NIS/automount clients and run "automount" to let automountd know that passwd map has been just updated. Am I wrong again? Thank you. P.S. I know about rsh/ssh :) -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Krueger To: Rainchik, Aleksandr (MED, Non GE) Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Sent: 1/12/01 2:30 PM Subject: Re: /home layout with many filers and NIS automount On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 10:47:54AM -0600, Rainchik, Aleksandr (MED, Non GE) wrote: > Hello, > > I just need a word of advice on how to structure /home if you > use automount, have 5-10 home directory servers (NetApp filers) > and around 1000 users. Point of clarification: 5-10 filers for 1,000 users? What model filers are they and I hope they are serving other data besides homedirs! At one point we had about 15,000 home directories mostly on two NetApps - a F330 and a F540 - and they were pretty bored filers. One way to simplify your design would be to reduce the number of filers serving homedirs, especially for 1,000 users. Two good reasons to spread out homedirs are for bandwidth constraints and to spread risk/reduce points of failure. But if you have consistently high bandwidth between all users and filers than 2-4 homedir servers should be more than plenty mitigation of risk considering the cost of additional filers versus the additional benefit (considering NetApps impressive reliability). > I'm personally is looking for /home/homeserver-vol#/user-name > scheme, so my automount maps will be nice, small and manageble: > > #auto_home NIS map > filer1-0 filer1:/vol/vol0 > filer1-1 filer1:/vol/vol1 > ... > filer5-5 filer5:/vol/vol5 This is a very restrictive design because it makes homedir moves extremely conspicuous. It also flies a bit in the face of a large selling point of the automounter - eliminating host-based network paths. If a user is moved from one filer to another, or even from one volume to another, they will have a whole new path to their home directory. Worse yet, any scripts or application configurations which use the full path to their home directory will need to be re-coded or re-configured - YUK! Being able to "hide" the location of a home directory (or any other remote filesystem) is extremely useful. > But it seems like users prefer /home/username scheme and it leads > to 1000+ NIS automount map for /home, like > > #auto_home NIS map > user1 filer2:/vol/vol1/& > .... > user9999 filer3:/vol/vol4/& This is the way we do it, and the way I'd venture to guess most/many places do it. From the user perspective, it is very simple. From the admin perspective, it is easy to manage. We've found it to give maximum flexibility with minimum hassle. > Do you know if there is more elegant solution for this problem? Can you > tell me, what is your preference for /home layout? What do you mean by elegant? The above is pretty darned elegant, and for 1,000 users it should be easily manageable too. We currently have 10,223 home directories and we've got one big home directory map like above. It works great! One recommendation is you may want to use a script or database to help generate that automount map. The easiest way would be to write a shell/perl script that scanned all your "homedir" directories on each filer, ensured username uniqueness and then build the automount map. For added flexibility, we use a small database. Each row in the homedir table has the username (mountpoint under /home), the filer, and the path to their homedir. At some interval a script comes thru and builds the map. Hope this info helps! -- Jeff -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 NetApp Filers / UNIX Infrastructure Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com

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6.0.1R1 Filerview -- How to print
by Darragh, Stephen J 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

I hope this is one of those questions that I will say "of course, why didn't I see that". 6.0.1R1 filerview running from netscape 4.7.5 on a sun solaris 8 system. There are now a great number of reports and disk information, but I can't see how to print them. There is no CTRL-P, or alt-click to bring up a print option. I could use xwd, but there must be a simple way that I am just missing. Thanks in advance... Stephen Darragh

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by mb6161＠arabia.com 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

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ENTERPRISE EMAIL
by Joe Luchtenberg 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

There are a number of good threads in the toasters archives touching on large-scale e-mail implementation. My question is what other sites/newsgroups would you suggest are good primary resources for information/threads on enterprise e-mail? (I already have the Earthlink whitepaper from an earlier toasters thread) FWIW, the particular implementation under consideration is open to most anything at this time -- Exchange, sendmail, web-based, POP, etc. TIA. Joe Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc. New number and email, please update: 757.858.0600 858.0606 fax joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com

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Multicast support in ONTAP?
by Brian L. Brush 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

I'm experimenting with back-to-back (crossover) links between Sun boxes and filers. Specifically, I'm trying to use Solaris 8's IP network multipathing failover and fallback with such connections. The problem is that Solaris is unable to recognize the failure of a NIC directly connected to a filer. In testing, the feature works as expected on our normal switched network. Solaris's IP network multipathing failover and fallback (what a mouthful!) works by initially sending multicast ICMP echo requests (to ALL-SYSTEMS.MCAST.net). The Solaris box relies on routers and hosts to respond to the multicast requests. Then it sends periodic unicast ICMP echo requests to those specific routers/hosts and knows a NIC has failed when the responses stop. Snoop on the Solaris box reveals the filer is not responding to the multicast requests. The Solaris box, therefore, never even begins its monitoring because it thinks there is nothing to ping. Here is an excerpt: 192.168.0.5 -> ALL-SYSTEMS.MCAST.net ICMP Echo request (ID: 8194 Sequence number: 1) 192.168.0.5 -> ALL-SYSTEMS.MCAST.net ICMP Echo request (ID: 8194 Sequence number: 1) 192.168.0.5 -> ALL-SYSTEMS.MCAST.net ICMP Echo request (ID: 8194 Sequence number: 1) The filer is definitely sitting on the other end of the cable: ping -s 192.168.0.1 PING 192.168.0.1: 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=0. time=1. ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=1. time=0. ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=2. time=0. ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=3. time=0. ms Solaris box is an Ultra 1 with Solaris 8 10/00. Filer is an F760 running Data ONTAP 5.3.7. We've tested Sun ge to NetApp gigabit and also Sun hme to NetApp quad fast ethernet. I'm interested in hearing any suggestions that might make this configuration work. --Brian L. Brush Senior Systems Administrator Paradyne Corporation

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RE: /home layout with many filers and NIS automount
by Premanshu Jain 16 Jan '01

16 Jan '01

Anybody using NDMP for NT. I need to backup NT servers on a P3000 which supports only NDMP. Where can we get NDMP for NT? prem Premanshu Jain Nortel Networks, Content Networks(Shasta) 2305, Mission College Blvd, Santa Clara, CA 95054 Direct: (408) 565-3573 ESN: 655-3573 eMail: prjain(a)shastanets.com Web: http://www.nortelnetworks.com/ipservices -----Original Message----- From: Rob Windsor [mailto:windsor@adc.com] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:45 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: /home layout with many filers and NIS automount On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:37:38 PST, Jeffrey Krueger wrote: >> There is another thing against >> > #auto_home NIS map >> > user1 filer2:/vol/vol1/& >> design. We have a lot of development servers. So any time you >> add/delete/modify a single user you should go trough _all_ the >> NIS/automount clients and run "automount" to let automountd know >> that passwd map has been just updated. Am I wrong again? > This is correct, but I simple cron job which runs periodically on all NIS > clients should make short work of this task. =) Er? Solaris? That's one of the (few) beauties of NIS -- you don't have to go around telling everything that a map has changed. I've never gone machine-to-machine running automount(1) to kick it in the pants just because we changed the password or auto_home map. The _worst_ is that ncsd caches something and we need to kill and restart it. Rob++ ---------------------------------------- Rob Windsor E-Mail - mailto:rob_windsor@adc.com Senior Unix Systems Administrator Voice - phone:972-680-6919 Computer Services Fax - phone:972-680-0370 Broadband Access and Transport Group __o ADC Telecommunications _`\<,_ Richardson, TX 75082 (_)/ (_)

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