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Migrating from NetApp to EMC Celera
by Bruce Arden 30 Jan '04

30 Jan '04

I have been asked what the problems would be migrating from NetApp filers to EMC Celerra. Has anyone had any experience of doing this. What features would I loose? - Bruce -- Bruce Arden arden(a)nortelnetworks.com barden2(a)csc.com CSC, Nortel, London Rd, Harlow, England +44 1279 40 2877

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Mac OS X NFS attr caching
by Todd C. Merrill 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

If anyone has good experience or knowledge of how Mac OS X (particularly Panther) does NFS attr caching, or how to tweak it, I'd like to hear from you. After a wholesale upgrade of most of our Macs to Panther recently, network traces show subsequent getattr calls go all the way from the client to the toaster if they are separated in time by anything more than a few milliseconds. Needless to say, this is now burying some of our toasters (on one 960 at a rate of 40-70,000 ops/s). Thank goodness NetApp's caching works. Until next time... The MathWorks, Inc. 508-647-7000 x7792 3 Apple Hill Drive, Natick, MA 01760-2098 508-647-7001 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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Sybase and snapshots
by John Hope-Bailie 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

Hi there, Some years ago I recall being told that hosting Sybase on a filer was o.k. but that there were problems with snapshots. Apparently, Sybase 10 did not support being "quiesced" prior to the snapshot, so the integrity of the snapshot could not be assured. At this time, the talk was that Sybase 11 would/could overcome this issue. Can anyone share their experience running Sybase 10 or 11 (on Sun/Solaris) with filers, and using snapshots ? regards, John Hope-Bailie johnhb(a)sourceconsulting.co.za --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.571 / Virus Database: 361 - Release Date: 2004.01.26

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clean repost cifs/nfs backup
by Jeff Burton 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

Sorry for the repost, I'm working out some personal issues with hotmail... We are migrating into a larger NetBackup 4.5 domain and we are needing to change from using a Unix media server to a Windows media server. We also cannot use NDMP at this time. Both restrictions are mostly due to political, management, and budget reasons. So our choices as I see it are: - Use PCNFS to backup/restore the NFS data and CIFS shares to backup CIFS data. - Use CIFS shares to backup/restore both NFS and CIFS data - Any others? We tried both of the above and neither worked perfectly. After opening more security holes than I would have liked, we were able to backup the data successfully both ways. But the restores gave the errors at the end of this message. I'm not necessarily looking for a fix for the problems below, however it would be nice to know why this is happening. What I am looking for is the most reliable and secure method to backup our 12 filers using NetBackup 4.5 without using NDMP or a Unix media server. I think the most convenient would be to use the CIFS shares to backup all, but we have volumes that have both NFS and CIFS data inside. So, I?m a little weary about the recovery of file permission. I know the NFS permissions will still be there, but how would I actually recover the data from the Windows media server? When we recovered the NFS data to a NFS qtree from the Windows media server, it created files that I had to go into the netapp! .jsh cli to delete, and 2 files that I have no idea how to delete since nobody can delete from any platform and netapp.jsh says it cannot delete the file (Does anyone know how I can delete these files? I have the cifs.ignore_acl_for_nfs_root option on). I would rather not use the PCNFS solution because it seems to be a bit insecure?or maybe I?m not setting it up correctly. Thanks in advance, Jeff 1/26/2004 2:45:13 PM mediaServer mediaServer Warning 276 Retrieve from client mediaServer: WRN - error writing file: \\netappRestore\etc\log\ems.4 (err=WIN32 282: The mounted file system does not support extended attributes. ) 1/26/2004 2:45:14 PM mediaServer mediaServer Warning 276 Retrieve from client mediaServer: WRN - error writing byte: 116736 1/26/2004 2:45:15 PM mediaServer mediaServer Warning 276 Retrieve from client mediaServer: WRN - wanted buffer size: 16485 1/26/2004 2:45:20 PM mediaServer mediaServer Warning 276 Retrieve from client mediaServer: WRN - can't create file: \\netappRestore\etc\boot\x86\firmware\rodan (WIN32 5: Access is denied. ) 1/26/2004 2:46:12 PM mediaServer mediaServer Error 276 Retrieve client restore EXIT STATUS 5: the restore failed to recover the requested files 1/26/2004 2:49:33 PM mediaServer medi! aServer Warning 277 Retrieve from client mediaServer: WRN - can't create file: \\netappBackup\C$\etc\zoneinfo\Asia\Makassar (WIN32 6: The handle is invalid. ) 1/26/2004 2:49:52 PM mediaServer mediaServer Error 277 Retrieve client restore EXIT STATUS 1: the requested operation was partially successful _________________________________________________________________ Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up fast & reliable Internet access with prime features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1

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None
by Jeff Burton 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

_________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1

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cifs/nfs backup environment
by Jeff Burton 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

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RE: ONTAP simulator http license?
by Meyer, Brad 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

Try these... Brad BKHEXNB is a fcp Simulator site license NAZOMKC is a http Simulator site license -----Original Message----- From: CTG - Bob Weiler [mailto:bweiler@ctgwi.com] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 7:24 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: ONTAP simulator http license? Does anyone know the simulator license for http? When I installed the simulator I noticed the keys for fcp and http are identical. The installation guide has the following: ... license dafs=TBPGWWF license fcp=BKHEXNB <- license http=BKHEXNB <- license nfs=BQOEAZL ... Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Dave Hitz Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:29 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: ONTAP Simulator available on NOW Some of you may know that NetApp Engineering uses an ONTAP Simulator as part of our development process. (The simulator runs all of ONTAP as a process under Linux. At a very low level, we spoof the disk drivers, so that disks are simulated by local files. We spoof the network drivers by putting the Linux Ethernet card into promiscuous mode and creating a fake MAC address associated with the simulator.) Enough technical details. The point of this message is that we are now making the simulator available to customers so that they can experiment with ONTAP features and commands without putting production systems at risk. I have had many customers tell me that they wished they had a way to play with new releases and new features, but they didn't have a safe place to do it. Just to be clear: This is not production software. It's ONTAP running on top of Linux, so don't use it for performance testing. We have no formal support program. Don't call NetApp support. This is an "as is" tool. (Some restrictions may apply. :-) On the other hand, I think you will find the simulator to be very useful for experimenting with ONTAP. Hundreds of NetApp engineers use it every day, and we have been using the simulator for over a year in NetApp training classes. Not only can you experiment with the features of a single filer, but you can run multiple simulators and experiment with features like SnapMirror, SnapVault, and Cluster Fail Over. It doesn't support Fibre Channel, because that would take more hardware, but it does support iSCSI and all of the other TCP/IP protocols, including NFS, CIFS, HTTP and FTP, as well as network management protocols like SNMP and NDMP. Here are some details: You can download the simulator from NOW at <http://now.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/simulator>. We have created a category in the NOW community forums called "ONTAP Simulator" that can be accessed at <http://forums.netapp.com/showcategory.asp?cid=172>. And finally, we have created a majordomo mailing list that people can join at xdl-simulator(a)netapp.com. (You know the drill. To join send to majordomo(a)netapp.com, not to the simulator list itself.) And of course, feel free to talk about it here on toasters. As I said above, the simulator is NOT formally supported, but some volunteers at NetApp have agreed to informally answer questions to the xdl-simulator mailing list. Have fun! Dave Hitz Founder and EVP Engineering, Network Appliance

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28 Jan '04

Every time the filer is rebooted. the snmp values for disk changes. This affects our mrtg monitoring. Is there a script that helps overcome this issue? How are others monitoring disk usage using mrtg? TIA After last reboot: NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.1 = STRING: "/vol/vol1/" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.2 = STRING: "/vol/vol1/.snapshot" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.3 = STRING: "/vol/vol7/" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.4 = STRING: "/vol/vol7/.snapshot" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.5 = STRING: "/vol/vol6/" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.6 = STRING: "/vol/vol6/.snapshot" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.7 = STRING: "/vol/vol2/" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.8 = STRING: "/vol/vol2/.snapshot" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.9 = STRING: "/vol/vol0/" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.10 = STRING: "/vol/vol0/.snapshot" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.11 = STRING: "/vol/vol5/" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.12 = STRING: "/vol/vol5/.snapshot" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.13 = STRING: "/vol/vol4/" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.14 = STRING: "/vol/vol4/.snapshot" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.15 = STRING: "/vol/vol3/" NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.16 = STRING: "/vol/vol3/.snapshot" Before the reboot: #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.1 = STRING: "/vol/vol2/" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.2 = STRING: "/vol/vol2/.snapshot" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.3 = STRING: "/vol/vol1/" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.4 = STRING: "/vol/vol1/.snapshot" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.5 = STRING: "/vol/vol4/" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.6 = STRING: "/vol/vol4/.snapshot" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.7 = STRING: "/vol/vol6/" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.8 = STRING: "/vol/vol6/.snapshot" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.9 = STRING: "/vol/vol0/" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.10 = STRING: "/vol/vol0/.snapshot" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.11 = STRING: "/vol/vol5/" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.12 = STRING: "/vol/vol5/.snapshot" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.13 = STRING: "/vol/vol3/" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.14 = STRING: "/vol/vol3/.snapshot" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.15 = STRING: "/vol/vol7/" #NETWORK-APPLIANCE-MIB::dfFileSys.16 = STRING: "/vol/vol7/.snapshot"

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RE: Migrating from NetApp to EMC Celera
by Jeff Burton 23 Jan '04

23 Jan '04

I have recently evaluated their NS600, which is basically a small Celerra (same O/S, same FS). The only products that I can think of that NetApp has where EMC does not have a competing product are VLD, MultiStore, VFM, and SnapVault. But EMC has a TON of software that NetApp does not have such as HighRoad (basically will send large NAS requests over the SAN to speed up transfer), OnCourse (in-band multi-platform migration tool), FULLY functional WORM software/hardware, Legato, Documentum, VMware, .... EMC is the closest company, that I can think of, to having a complete Information Life-cycle Management solution. Do most people need all this software, nope, but it's nice to have these options. As G- said there are a lot of, "...piece(s) of 'value-added' crap from EMC." (I love that!). With that said, NetApp is so "open" that you can incorporate their filers into most other vendor's product solutions. EMC hardware is also better supported in more vendor's storage software solutions. As of 6 months ago nobody that I know of except NetApp had software that would adequately manage a NetApp; hence the cool perl scripts that we all create to manage the filers. I was also surprised to see that EMC was about 40% less expensive than NetApp (I got as close to an apples to apples comparison as I could). Now for the bad news, management. There is a reason EMC makes SO much money in professional services. When it comes to building and managing a storage environment, EMC is to NetApp what a Colorado Rocky Mountain double black diamond is to a Illinois glacier flattened mountain's green circle. I was amazed at how much they improved the Celerra O/S and it's management software. But to get to the point were you would know how to take full advantage of everything would take 50x longer than it would with NetApp's filers. Also, there is not just one item to manage. You have to manage the linux workstation, the data mover(s), and the disk controller with different tools. The linux workstation and data movers are somewhat linked, but you need a separate software license for Navisphere (?), which we had to install on a separate Windows workstation. Now you have to manage that workstation as well. So not only is the management of each item more difficult but there are 4 items that need to be managed separately instead of just 1. Since I only evaluated this equipment I have no idea how reliable it is. I can tell you it took 3-5 EMC techs 4 days to set this up to the point were I could copy data to it. The NetApp took me about 40 minutes to install and start copying data to the NetApp. Since this was an eval you know EMC put it's best foot forward. They were very nice about everything but my clients would rather get their space today as opposed to 4 days from now, even if it is accompanied by a warm hug. DART OS updates also took 4 times longer with 3 times as much down-time when compared to DOT. To sum up, IMHO EMC is going in the right direction but they have a long way to go before they can compete with NetApp's NAS solution. As of right now (and discounting reliability which I can not speak to) both EMC and NetApp have great NAS solutions; EMC is better for HUGE environments (100's of TB) and NetApp is better for small to large environments. EMC will be less expensive, but NetApp will have a much lower TCO. EMC is better for they-manage-it tech groups, and NetApp wins in we-manage-it groups (until you learn EMC's solution which could take years, at which point it's a tie). Speed is too difficult to get an even comparison, but it's close enough so that only a few environments would actually see a measurable difference. Reliability, can't say for sure but it would be hard to beat the NetApp uptime in our environment. As for support, their help desk's are both good, SE's are both great, I like powerlink.emc better than now.netapp, but EMC does not have toasters. I like being able to learn from other companies environments. I should also say that about 90% of the people I've met up the EMC chain were very intelligent and dedicated. Same with NetApp, but considering the complexity of the EMC environment I've met 40 people over there from SE's to Directors/VP. As many of you probably know, there are too companies that employ people that don't have a clue what there talking about. And finally to answer the original question: there may not be any problems or features lost, but get ready to spend about 6 months reading manuals. Thanks, -J _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed net deals comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com

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Using SyncSort Backup Express NDMP on 740 filer
by Maglinger, Paul 23 Jan '04

23 Jan '04

Greetings to all... Due to problems getting Veritas BackupExec 9.0 to play nicely with our 740 filer (can see the volumes and shares, but they are greyed out... tried using User Defined Selection and would get a pop-up saying it couldn't access the files). So, as we also use SyncSort Backup Express, we are trying to use NDMP, and now we come to the issue. By using NDMP, it doesn't appear that we can redirect our restores so our only choice is to restore over the top of the existing files. This raises another issue in that it appears that we couldn't do a restore to any other type machine than a Network Applicance NAS. We were hoping that in a disaster recovery situation, we could restore to Intel machine but I don't see where that's possible using NDMP. Is there a workaround for this? Can I get some insight here? Our glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall. Paul Maglinger, A+, CA, CCA, CET, MCSE Systems Administrator Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com

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