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Re: vol copy
by Stephane Bentebba 19 Jan '05

19 Jan '05

good to know, thanx McCarthy, Tim wrote: >Ever since late 6.4 releases of ndmpcopy, the qtree is recreated just like the source. >I have done many data migrations this way and it works like that > >Volcopy also uses the loopback interface and if you have wide/deep directories, >it is significantly faster than any file copy operation including ndmpcopy. > >Also, if you are on the same filer you do not need -sa and -da. >If you are on the source filer, you do not need -sa and if you are on the destination filer you do not need -da > >--tmac > >====================== >Tim McCarthy >Professional Services/Systems Engineer >NetApp Federal Systems, Inc. >410-551-3970 (o) >443-363-0208 (f) >tmac(a)netapp.com >tmac-pager(a)netapp.com >====================== >________________________________________ >From: Stephane Bentebba [mailto:stephane.bentebba@fps.fr] >Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:52 AM >To: toasters(a)mathworks.com >Subject: Re: vol copy > >i would advise you to use the ndmpcopy command >it enable ndmpcopy without passing throught the netork if it is a local copy >you have to note that ndmpcopy doesn't remeber the "qtree state" of a directory, so you have to create the qtree before copying into it > >for exemple : >filer> qtree create /vol/vol1/myqtree >filer> ndmpcopy -sa root:mypass -da root:mypass -st text -dt text -l0 /vol/vol0/myqtree/* /vol/vol1/ > >with [-l { 0 | 1 | 2 }] you can make a full, then incremental at 2 different level if you like > >we manange some data migration (from old SCSI technologie to newer FC one) this way > > >devnull(a)adc.idt.com wrote: >What would be really cool is if you would let us copy/move qtrees between volumes. I find myself having to do that more often that i copy entire volumes. > >Right now, i end up doing it over the network which kinda seems unnecessary. > >Thanks >On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Jerry wrote: > > >Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 07:14:10 -0800 (PST) >From: Jerry <juanino(a)yahoo.com> >To: "McCarthy, Tim" <timothy.mccarthy(a)netapp.com>, > Paul Galjan <galjan(a)gmail.com>, Ben Rockwood <brockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> >Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com >Subject: vol copy > >Whoa. That's really cool. > >--- "McCarthy, Tim" <timothy.mccarthy(a)netapp.com> >wrote: > > >How "wide" are your directories? They play a very >important role in the >backup process. The more files in any given >directory, the longer it >takes to parse. > >How about this: VOLCOPY > >This only works at a volume level, it is all or none >and no incrementals >available...without a snapmirror license. > >You could do this: > >Source=vol1 Dest=dvol > > >>From the Dest: >vol restrict dvol > >from the source: >vol copy -S start vol1 dest:dvol (-->that is a cap >-S) > >this will copy the source volume, including all >snapshots to the >destination volume. (if you do not want the >snapshots, drop the -S) > >The catch: You must copy the whole volume and you >must use a whole >volume on the destination to copy to. Any >information on the destination >volume will be eradicated. > >This will work in 6.x and 7.x although in 7.x you >can only copy between >like volumes. Flex to Flex and Traditional to >Traditional. > >--tmac > >-----Original Message----- >From: Paul Galjan [mailto:galjan@gmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:32 PM >To: Ben Rockwood >Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com >Subject: Re: NDMP Tuning > >Hey, you've always got cygwin ;-). > >Seriously, though. 2.3M files is a serious number >of files. I used >to have a 180G home directory partition for about >300 users with only >about half that number of inodes. Even with rsync, >it took about 4 >hours to move that guy over to the destination, even >when less tha n >500 MB had changed. > >It underscores the point that block level >replication will have better >performance than file level replication, whether you >end up using QSM >or ndmpcopy. It really is worth it to bang on your >rep to get >snapmirror for an amount that you can afford. I >almost guarantee it >would save you orders of magnitude in replication >time. > >--paul >On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:19:48 -0800, Ben Rockwood ><brockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > >Paul Galjan wrote: > > >Cool then. > >In that case I would look at rsync and/or >robocopy (in a windows only > >env). Not that rsync is a block level protocol >(it evaluates on the > >file level), but perhaps it would provide better >performance with > >smaller backup windows? > >Rsync is certainly a possiblity. I'm afraid I'd >have some problems > >being as in this enviroment the filers are being >used CIFS only, which > >makes file level interaction for an old UNIX >zealot like me less than > >entertaining. > > >To put a better point on it: NDMP is just a >wrapper around the UNIX > >dump command. It's no better, nor worse than it, >and that's the > >reason I asked. The dump command (and NDMP by >extension) is for > >backup, not DR. It is a clunky protocol in terms >of straight > >replication, and that's why Netapp and others >offer alternatives for > >replication... > > >In the end though, we should get to your problem: >how many inodes are > >we looking at? And what happens in Pass 4, Stage >1? The inode number > >would be my first suspect. > >Right. I haven't looked at the code itself to see >exactly what it's > >doing (I probly should at some point) but Stage 1 >of Pass IV seems to >be > >all about inode creation prior to copying in all >the data. The source > >volume has 2.3million inodes in use. That does't >seem like an > >outragious number, and this is a pretty small >filer all things > >considered. How creation of 2.3 million inodes >can consume 3 hours is > >beyond my understanding. During that time the >destination filers CPU >is > >nearly idle. The only explanation I can dream up >is that the proccess > >of creating inodes is happening so quickly that >the bulk of system >time > >is spent in context switches not in execution, and >hense a false sense > >of idle-ness... but thats a pretty BS explanation >since even if that > >were the case it still wouldn't take 3 hours. > >All the evidence I've seen thus far with NDMP >suggests that I just >need > >to turn up the flow. Is there an idle loop in the >dump code? Thats > >exactly what it feels like. Anyone know is there >is an OnTap >equivelent > >to truss? > >benr. > > >--paul > > >On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:12:25 -0800, Ben Rockwood ><BRockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > > > >Hey Paul. > >Because I never said I was building a "quick >disaster recovery" >solution. :) > >The recovery system I'm building is more of a >"at least we've got >another copy" solution. We don't have cash for a >nearline which leaves >us in a hole. I'm looking to temporarily fill that >hole by leveraging >old 840's to at least keep a copy of the data on >untill we can one day >cough up the cash for a proper nearline. I'm >wanting to use NDMP >perhaps predominantly because this is what it was >intended to do. >SnapMirror and SnapVault are undoubtably the better >solutions, but I'd >like to try and utilize NDMP rather than just give >up on it as a slow >useless system of backup/recovery. If NDMP would >just run at the speeds >that the filers are capable of I'd be doing ok. I'm >leaving >Snapmirror/Snapvault off the table for now. > > >benr. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Paul Galjan [mailto:galjan@gmail.com] >Sent: Wed 1/5/2005 4:52 PM >To: Ben Rockwood >Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com >Subject: Re: NDMP Tuning >Hi Ben, > >I'll be the first to say that this doesn't >answer your question, but >=== message truncated === > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >/dev/null > >devnull(a)adc.idt.com > > > > > -- *Stéphane Bentebba *Technicien de Maintenance Tél.: +33 (0)1.41.73.20.16 Fax.: +33 (0)1.41.73.20.08 support(a)fps.fr <mailto:support@fps.fr> www.fps.fr <http://www.fps.fr> <http://www.fps.fr> *FPS France* Parc d'affaire Silic 43, rue de la Grosse Pierre BP 40160 94533 RUNGIS Cedex

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RE: NDMP Tuning
by McCarthy, Tim 18 Jan '05

18 Jan '05

How "wide" are your directories? They play a very important role in the backup process. The more files in any given directory, the longer it takes to parse. How about this: VOLCOPY This only works at a volume level, it is all or none and no incrementals available...without a snapmirror license. You could do this: Source=vol1 Dest=dvol >From the Dest: vol restrict dvol from the source: vol copy -S start vol1 dest:dvol (-->that is a cap -S) this will copy the source volume, including all snapshots to the destination volume. (if you do not want the snapshots, drop the -S) The catch: You must copy the whole volume and you must use a whole volume on the destination to copy to. Any information on the destination volume will be eradicated. This will work in 6.x and 7.x although in 7.x you can only copy between like volumes. Flex to Flex and Traditional to Traditional. --tmac -----Original Message----- From: Paul Galjan [mailto:galjan@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:32 PM To: Ben Rockwood Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: NDMP Tuning Hey, you've always got cygwin ;-). Seriously, though. 2.3M files is a serious number of files. I used to have a 180G home directory partition for about 300 users with only about half that number of inodes. Even with rsync, it took about 4 hours to move that guy over to the destination, even when less tha n 500 MB had changed. It underscores the point that block level replication will have better performance than file level replication, whether you end up using QSM or ndmpcopy. It really is worth it to bang on your rep to get snapmirror for an amount that you can afford. I almost guarantee it would save you orders of magnitude in replication time. --paul On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:19:48 -0800, Ben Rockwood <brockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > Paul Galjan wrote: > > >Cool then. > > > >In that case I would look at rsync and/or robocopy (in a windows only > >env). Not that rsync is a block level protocol (it evaluates on the > >file level), but perhaps it would provide better performance with > >smaller backup windows? > > > > > Rsync is certainly a possiblity. I'm afraid I'd have some problems > being as in this enviroment the filers are being used CIFS only, which > makes file level interaction for an old UNIX zealot like me less than > entertaining. > > >To put a better point on it: NDMP is just a wrapper around the UNIX > >dump command. It's no better, nor worse than it, and that's the > >reason I asked. The dump command (and NDMP by extension) is for > >backup, not DR. It is a clunky protocol in terms of straight > >replication, and that's why Netapp and others offer alternatives for > >replication... > > > > > >In the end though, we should get to your problem: how many inodes are > >we looking at? And what happens in Pass 4, Stage 1? The inode number > >would be my first suspect. > > > > > Right. I haven't looked at the code itself to see exactly what it's > doing (I probly should at some point) but Stage 1 of Pass IV seems to be > all about inode creation prior to copying in all the data. The source > volume has 2.3million inodes in use. That does't seem like an > outragious number, and this is a pretty small filer all things > considered. How creation of 2.3 million inodes can consume 3 hours is > beyond my understanding. During that time the destination filers CPU is > nearly idle. The only explanation I can dream up is that the proccess > of creating inodes is happening so quickly that the bulk of system time > is spent in context switches not in execution, and hense a false sense > of idle-ness... but thats a pretty BS explanation since even if that > were the case it still wouldn't take 3 hours. > > All the evidence I've seen thus far with NDMP suggests that I just need > to turn up the flow. Is there an idle loop in the dump code? Thats > exactly what it feels like. Anyone know is there is an OnTap equivelent > to truss? > > benr. > > >--paul > > > > > >On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:12:25 -0800, Ben Rockwood > ><BRockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > > > > > >>Hey Paul. > >> > >> Because I never said I was building a "quick disaster recovery" solution. :) > >>The recovery system I'm building is more of a "at least we've got another copy" solution. We don't have cash for a nearline which leaves us in a hole. I'm looking to temporarily fill that hole by leveraging old 840's to at least keep a copy of the data on untill we can one day cough up the cash for a proper nearline. I'm wanting to use NDMP perhaps predominantly because this is what it was intended to do. SnapMirror and SnapVault are undoubtably the better solutions, but I'd like to try and utilize NDMP rather than just give up on it as a slow useless system of backup/recovery. If NDMP would just run at the speeds that the filers are capable of I'd be doing ok. I'm leaving Snapmirror/Snapvault off the table for now. > >> > >>benr. > >> > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Paul Galjan [mailto:galjan@gmail.com] > >>Sent: Wed 1/5/2005 4:52 PM > >>To: Ben Rockwood > >>Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > >>Subject: Re: NDMP Tuning > >>Hi Ben, > >> > >>I'll be the first to say that this doesn't answer your question, but > >>why are you using NDMP for quick disaster recovery? I would think > >>that SnapMirror or SnapVault would be much more accomodating to DR > >>requirements... My guess would be that a block level copy with VSM > >>would be much more efficient... > >> > >>I would ask your Sales rep or SE for an eval snapmirror license. > >> > >>--paul > >> > >>On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:26:32 -0800, Ben Rockwood > >><BRockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Happy New Year Toasters. > >>> > >>>Does anyone have experience with tuning NDMP? I'm not sure how much tuning is possible, but I'm trying to work out some serious slowness in NDMP Level 0's. > >>> > >>>Plenty of people have had these issues before but I'm not finding solutions on NOW or in forums. Here is a time breakdown of a L0 I did: > >>> 5 hr 32 min total > >>> 35 minutes in Pass I & II > >>> 14 minutes in Pass III > >>> 3 hr 38 min Pass IV (Stage 1, Creation) > >>> 1 hr 21 min Pass IV (Stage 2, Copy) > >>> Unknown in Pass V > >>> > >>>These numbers are rough based on timestamps during the NDMPcopy itself. The total transfer is about 58G from one 760 to another. It's the first stage of PassIV that really bothers me. During this first part of the pass there is very low CPU utilization and little IO. I need to speed up the process. Since the destination is a recovery filer and not serving data I don't care if it's CPU gets slammed or IO is pushed through the roof, I just need it done quicker. > >>> > >>>Is it throttling or can I some how speed it up? I'm using gig as the interconnect but as I understand it Pass IV Stage 1 is all about inode creation whereas Stage2 is the actual data transfer. The data transfer rate is roughly averaging 11MB/s between the two filers which is less than I'd like to see as well, the filer should be capable of handling a tranfer rate of 30MB/s pretty easily. > >>> > >>>Any hints or tips from the experienced? This is effectively a test setup before implementing a recovery system on our production 940's in which we'll be moving nearly 7TB of data. Given my findings so far it's going to be pretty nasty. > >>> > >>>benr. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >

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17 Jan '05

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by dialup 16 Jan '05

16 Jan '05

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Oracle OS-Error (OS 64)
by Holland, William L 14 Jan '05

14 Jan '05

We have an Oracle database running on a Win2K Adv server in an NT4 domain, with the database files on a FAS940. The database is in a dedicated QTree on a dedicated volume. The server and filer are directly connected via a crossover GbE connection. Occasionally, the database will go down with a series of Oracle events listed below. Nothing abnormal shows up in the Windows Event logs or the filer's messages. na_gb (gigabit connection to the NetApp) is entered in the local HOST file and LHMOSTS file. The LMHOSTS file uses the #PRE statement to preload this and keep it in the NetBIOS cache. Any ideas what can be causing this? ------------------------------------------------ ORA-00206: error in writing (block 3, # blocks 1) of controlfile ORA-00202: controlfile: '\\NA_GB\RFMT$\CONTROL2\RFMTCONTROL02.CTL' ORA-27072: skgfdisp: I/O error OSD-04008: WriteFile() failure, unable to write to file O/S-Error: (OS 64) The specified network name is no longer available.

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"desktop search" product for NetApp Filer?
by Chris Shenton 13 Jan '05

13 Jan '05

Google, Yahoo and others are offering tools to allow users to search the contents of their desktop. Apple will offer this with OSX Tiger and Microsoft when Longhorn ever comes out. Seems something users really want and need. It would be nice to offer similar facilities to users whose desktop contents reside on a NetApp Filer. While I expect the existing tools could be crawl users files from their desktop even if they're on NFS or CIFS shares, I expect they would be *very* inefficient. There are already products for the Filer which can scan user files for virii. I'm guessing these don't run continuously, but rather when a file is added or it changes on the NetApp. It seems a search engine could do likewise, indexing or re-indexing the file when it was put on the Filer or changed, respectively. Then they could find their stuff quickly and easily. A sophisticated search product could add value by clustering results into semantically related groups (e.g., a search on "space" might provide results grouped by concepts like "room", "geometry", "astronomy", "freedom"). Other advanced user interfaces could be imagined, including "fly-throughs" of related concepts and documents. Do such products exist? I didn't find anything that looked relevant with a quick google. Many thanks.

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Replacing NVRAM online
by cisco joe 11 Jan '05

11 Jan '05

Has anyone did replacement of NVRAM 4 card on clustered environment using cf takeover/giveback? Is it possible to replace NVRAM in cf takeover mode? DOT version is 6.4 on both Filers (FAS960c) Please suggest..Thanks in advance Regards, Joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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