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RE: raid dp
by Warkentin, Grant 12 May '05

12 May '05

We been running a FAS960 for about a year. Upgraded to on OnTap 6.5 last fall IIRC. All our volumes are DP (Dual Parity). Don't worry 'bout stability. Using DP results in an increase in fault tolerance. NOTICE - This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Constantin Bogomolnyi Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 7:02 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: raid dp Hello, I have 2 f840 with 72gigsx35x2 , i would like to use the raid dp feature how stable is the ontap 6.5 ? can we use it in prod for only nfs + raid-dp + snapmirror thanks cb

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sek's is cool
by Carmelle Lockwood 12 May '05

12 May '05

beg for sek's ;-D http://www.pertumin.com/aaa/

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RE: Snapmirror and locked files
by Umerov, Mark 12 May '05

12 May '05

As I understand it, when the block level transfer of the blocks that changed between last transfer and the time the new snapshot was taken on source is completed, Netapp makes this just transferred snapshot on the target the active file system and removes previous snapshot from the source - the target at that point is synchronized with the source at the time of the last snapshot. When the snapshot on target volume becomes the active file system, what happens to files that reside on data blocks that changed in case these files happen to be locked by clients? Does the question make sense? If it does not make any sense, let me try to ask it differently... Unlike typical NFS, when CIFS clients read the file, the file is actually locked until read operation completes. In other words, other processes cannot update the file while the file is being read. What happens in case of Netapp if CIFS clients read the file from the snapmirrored volume and the snapmirror transfer completes *while* the file is being read? thanks again, Mark -----Original Message----- From: Eric Kimminau [mailto:ekimminau@rainfinity.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:40 PM To: Umerov, Mark Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Snapmirror and locked files Hi! I know that snapmirror is a block level solution, which, to my knowledge, has no real knowledge of the files using those blocks. Therefore I don't believe that it has no knowledge of file related locks. Then again I could be completely wrong. I would be very interested in hearing if you hear anything other that what I have below. From the iSCSI best practices paper: http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3250.html 3.9. File Systems That Are Not Capable of Snapshots Applications that are implemented on top of file systems that are not capable of Snapshots, such as NTFS, represent the simplest scenario from a backup and recovery perspective. When backing up these applications, applications must be first quiesced, or taken offline, in order to avoid open files or files changing during the backup operation. Then, file system caches must be first committed before the backup operation commences. The application remains quiesced, or offline, until the backup is completed, at which point normal application operation can resume. This can result in a significant period of unavailability for the application. Some applications have a built-in hot backup mode, allowing a backup to occur while the application operates at a reduced efficiency and often, limited capabilities. This type of mode is typical in messaging and database applications such as Microsoft Exchange and OracleR. It will result in higher overall application availability than not using hot backup mode. However, it can potentially still result in a long interval of reduced efficiency and limited performance. One final alternative is to use an open file manager from a backup software vendor. These applications are designed to handle backup operations on files that are still locked by an application. They work well for simple applications, such as home directories and shared documents. However, they should be avoided with complex applications, such as messaging applications or databases. ================================================================= This of course assumes that snapmirror does not use the SecureShare methodology described in this paper which handles multi-protocol opportunistic locks but I don't know if snapmirror interacts in any way: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:QtaPZkw0OCwJ:www.nluug.nl/events/vj99 /papers/pawlowski.ps+snapmirror+locked+files&hl=en&client=firefox-a Data integrity A thorny problem in the multiprotocol file access space is managing shared access to data in the face ofrestrictions imposed by client locking. The technology in Network Appliance filers that accomplishes this is called SecureShare, and is described in [Borr98]. SecureShare enables UNIX and Windows based applications to concurrently access and update sharedfiles, with the integrity and cache coherency of the shared data being protected by system-enforced locking and file-open semantics. The locking semantics between Windows NT and UNIX differsignificantly. Heuristics control simultaneous access to a file by both UNIX and Windows NT. Simultaneous access in a multiprotocol environment might compromise the data integrity of a file(when locked against unwanted modification by other clients) if not properly managed. UNIX clients have rather lax standards of locking compared to the more restrictive lock semantics of Windows NT. SecureShare also implements a multiprotocol extrapolation of the Windows networking performanceoptimization known as "opportunistic locks" (oplocks). Oplocks allow a Windows NT client to aggressively cache data and lock state in the absence of sharing. A Windows NT server will extend anoplock to a Windows NT client when no other client is sharing a file. When another client attempts access to a file on which an oplock is held, a Winndows NT server will "break the oplock" forcing allmodified data and lock state back to the server, and the server will then negotiate file access between clients engaged in data sharing. The SecureShare implementation of oplocks provides Windows-basedapplications the performance benefits of aggressive client-side caching and the assurance that the same "oplock break" protocol occurs in the event a UNIX-based application attempts to access an oplockedfile. ---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6---------7 Eric Kimminau Email: ekimminau(a)rainfinity.com Senior Sales Engineer Office:248.766.9921 Rainfinity Fax: 248.393.8037 www.rainfinity.com ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Umerov, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 2:58 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Snapmirror and locked files greetings, Does Netapp allow locking of files on snapmirrored (read-only) volumes? If so, how does Snapmirror behave if there are locked files on the target? Please advise if you can... thanks much in advance, Mark

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RE: adding new DS14mkII shelves
by Francett, Robert D (SAIC) 12 May '05

12 May '05

I think he's wanting to add several FC shelves, starting with address 1, to an already existing FC adapter, hot. Add & configure shelves, or at least the first one, turn on adapter, away you go, filer doesn't hiccup (gulp!). I've also added shelves hot when there's already at least one up, but haven't tried what he has in mind - if I understand 'the plan' properly. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Skottie Miller Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 3:21 PM To: Michael Schipp Cc: rob-7704(a)austin.rr.com; John Stoffel; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: adding new DS14mkII shelves Hot adding ds14 shelves not only works, it's supported and documented by NetApp. I've installed many a shelf live, on 9x0 filers and R200 systems. -skottie -- Scott Miller skottie(a)DreamWorksAnimation.com

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RE: adding new DS14mkII shelves
by Michael Schipp 11 May '05

11 May '05

Hmmm, not long < 5 seconds (approx) - I have done this on live system before (NOT recommended - but works) -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of rob-7704(a)austin.rr.com Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2005 11:47 PM To: John Stoffel Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: adding new DS14mkII shelves John, > > Robert> Sunday morning we'll shut the Oracle DB's down and do the > following: >Why not just shutdown the filer, hook up the last fibre connections >between the new shelves and the filer and reboot? 4 minutes of down >time... Ultimately we can and will do this. There are certain parties here that claim this can be done live... I suppose I'm catering to their wishes. But a reboot after all the drives are seen is probably a good idea if I have the window. > Robert> Does it matter in which order I flip the terminator switch > Robert> and/or run the "storage" command? Should I flip the > Robert> Terminator switch off and *then* issue the "storage" command? > Robert> I'm thinking Terminator switch last.... > > > To me, you don't want to enable the storage until all the hookups are > done and correct. Once you do the enable command, it will go out and > probe that adapter, so it should be physically all setup ahead of > time. > Our SE mentioned in a meeting weeks ago that adding shelves is as simple as cabling them up with Termination "on" and then flipping a switch thus my frame of mind. And in an existing loop that would be true. But these are new loops and the FC controllers have no drives on them and thus the FC controllers came up disabled. I just talked to him and we revised the plan to as you suggest. I'll leave the termination switch "on" and run my fiber cable from FC controllers to the Fiber based ESH's. Then flip the termination switch off on the first shelf and *then* issue the "storage enable adapter x" command last. I'm curious how long it'll take for each FC controller loop to "discover" all the drives. Thanks for your suggestion. -Rob

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Snapmirror and locked files
by Umerov, Mark 11 May '05

11 May '05

greetings, Does Netapp allow locking of files on snapmirrored (read-only) volumes? If so, how does Snapmirror behave if there are locked files on the target? Please advise if you can... thanks much in advance, Mark

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Re: adding new DS14mkII shelves
by Jerry 11 May '05

11 May '05

We've just added DS14mkII shelves on the fly. The only catch for us was using ESH2 modules, you have to have the right version of ontap, or it panics the filer when you open the loop. And yes, once you have the propper requirements it's as simple as flipping the terminator. The drives are seen in 30 seconds or so. (FAS940 cluster) --- John Stoffel <john.stoffel(a)taec.toshiba.com> wrote: > > Robert> I'm adding 8 DS14mkII shelves on Sunday > morning. The new FC > Robert> controllers are already in the Filer (FAS940 > running DOT > Robert> 6.5.4) and blinking away. I also slid the 8 > trays in (very > Robert> carefully) over the past 2 weeks and cabled > the copper > Robert> interconnects up in-to-out between shelves > this afternoon. > > Robert> Sunday morning we'll shut the Oracle DB's > down and do the following: > > Why not just shutdown the filer, hook up the last > fibre connections > between the new shelves and the filer and reboot? 4 > minutes of down > time.... > > Robert> 1. Run the Fiber cable between the FC > controller A/B ports and > Robert> the Fiber based DS14 shelves. (we installed > 2 and are planning > Robert> on putting 4 each shelves per FC controller) > > Robert> 2. Run the "storage enable adapter n" > command. > > Robert> 3. Flip the Terminator switch on the Fiber > IN ports of each of > Robert> the 4 ports across the two Fiber based > shelves. > > Robert> Does it matter in which order I flip the > terminator switch > Robert> and/or run the "storage" command? Should I > flip the > Robert> Terminator switch off and *then* issue the > "storage" command? > Robert> I'm thinking Terminator switch last.... > > I'm not clear what you doing here, are you saying > that you already > have shelves on the new controllers and you want to > add shelves into > the loop in real time? If the controllers are > completely unused, just > cable them up and turn on the termination switches > to the correct > positions, _then_ I'd run the 'storage enable > adapter' command. > > To me, you don't want to enable the storage until > all the hookups are > done and correct. Once you do the enable command, > it will go out and > probe that adapter, so it should be physically all > setup ahead of > time. > > But hey, I'm ignorant and I'd love to be educated > here too. > > John > John Stoffel - Senior Staff Systems > Administrator - System LSI Group > Toshiba America Electronic Components, Inc. - > http://www.toshiba.com/taec > john.stoffel(a)taec.toshiba.com - 508-486-1087 > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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RE: raid dp
by Venkat Appineni 11 May '05

11 May '05

I would suggest go with the latest GA release for 6.5 which would have lot of bug fixes..6.5 is one of the most stable release from Netapp... -V -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Constantin Bogomolnyi Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 6:02 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: raid dp Hello, I have 2 f840 with 72gigsx35x2 , i would like to use the raid dp feature how stable is the ontap 6.5 ? can we use it in prod for only nfs + raid-dp + snapmirror thanks cb

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raid dp
by Constantin Bogomolnyi 11 May '05

11 May '05

Hello, I have 2 f840 with 72gigsx35x2 , i would like to use the raid dp feature how stable is the ontap 6.5 ? can we use it in prod for only nfs + raid-dp + snapmirror thanks cb

2 1

Re: adding new DS14mkII shelves
by rob-7704＠austin.rr.com 11 May '05

11 May '05

John, > > Robert> Sunday morning we'll shut the Oracle DB's down and do the > following: >Why not just shutdown the filer, hook up the last fibre connections >between the new shelves and the filer and reboot? 4 minutes of down >time... Ultimately we can and will do this. There are certain parties here that claim this can be done live... I suppose I'm catering to their wishes. But a reboot after all the drives are seen is probably a good idea if I have the window. > Robert> Does it matter in which order I flip the terminator switch > Robert> and/or run the "storage" command? Should I flip the > Robert> Terminator switch off and *then* issue the "storage" command? > Robert> I'm thinking Terminator switch last.... > > > To me, you don't want to enable the storage until all the hookups are > done and correct. Once you do the enable command, it will go out and > probe that adapter, so it should be physically all setup ahead of > time. > Our SE mentioned in a meeting weeks ago that adding shelves is as simple as cabling them up with Termination "on" and then flipping a switch thus my frame of mind. And in an existing loop that would be true. But these are new loops and the FC controllers have no drives on them and thus the FC controllers came up disabled. I just talked to him and we revised the plan to as you suggest. I'll leave the termination switch "on" and run my fiber cable from FC controllers to the Fiber based ESH's. Then flip the termination switch off on the first shelf and *then* issue the "storage enable adapter x" command last. I'm curious how long it'll take for each FC controller loop to "discover" all the drives. Thanks for your suggestion. -Rob

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