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Simple Question on QTREES and Volumes
by Paul Jordison (AU) 04 May '05

04 May '05

Hi, I will preface this by stating that I am very green when it comes to NetApp things. OK, we have a Filer (not sure of the exact model...I can post that if needed) and I am not sure of the level of software we use (once again I can find this) but my question is about Disks, Volumes and Qtrees. A volume is a bunch of disks (LUNS) yes? - ie if I get 5 66GB disks RAID 4 it gives me about a 200GB volume? - The size of the volume is directly proportional to the amount of disks added to it?? Qtrees are effectively virtual volumes that 'break up' the volume even more (ie a 200GB volume can have 8 x 25GB Qtrees (or 1 x 50GB Qtree and 6 x 25GB Qtrees)? Qtrees can be increased or decreased at any level (if I add a disk to a volume all of that space can go to a Qtree or none of it while the volume MUST increase by the amount of physical disk added? If I want to put data on the filer (say Exchange data, user homedrives and Departmental data) I can put this data on separate Qtrees in a single volume? Or should I put the data on separate volumes and not worry about Qtrees? Is it better to have 1 massive volume and split it into qtrees as needed or is there a limit on volume size (performance problems if volume too big?)? Sorry if this is totally incorrect...if it is please feel free to correct me as I said I have had nothing to do with NetApp stuff before (although I am quite handy on a HDS SAN :)) But if I am right, please let me know as I need this information. Sorry for taking so long with this email.

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RE: VFM and DFS
by Fahey_Michael＠emc.com 03 May '05

03 May '05

Guys, Let's stop vendor bashing in public. It is not good form and detracts from the spirit of the board. Everyone have a nice day. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kimminau Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 8:14 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: VFM and DFS VFM or NuView StorageX (they are the exact same product) is an enhanced management GUI for Microsoft DFS with some additional hooks for automating failover in a NetApp (and other?) environment. I have had a number of conversations with the Microsoft DFS project manager. If there is anything Microsoft hates more than anything else, it is telling a customer that they need to purchase a third party product to manage a Microsoft service. This means that either A) Microsoft is going to purchase technology so that they can give it to you for free or B) they are going to develop technology so that they can give it to you for free. Either way a commercial third party product for managing DFS has a relatively short shelf life with a fairly steep price tag if you have significant amount of storage. NuView knows this and has started bundling additional "modules" with their StorageX/VFM product to make it a more attractive solution. All I can say is that you need to take a close look at where it has been installed and ask to talk to customers that have implemented the add-on modules to see what level of success they have seen. If you are considering a 3rd party tool to configure and manage your DFS environment you should understand a couple of things. 1) You MUST be running MS Server 2003 for your DFS root. Win200 is missing some key functionality and stability enhancements which will create a less than stable and less than scaleable DFS environment. Even VFM/StorageX require a Windows 2003 Server./ Their GUI is just that, a "better" GUI for administering DFS. It still requires MS Windows DFS. 2) Your DFS root will either need a Active Directory Domain Controller(s) or a dedicated DFS root server (cluster) depending upon the size and complexity of your environment and the level of authority you want to assign to your DFS administrators. 3) If you want to delegate the administration of DFS to less than domain administrators, you cannot install your DFS root on your AD domain controllers. You will be implementing distributed domain DFS. This means you need one or more clusters of DFS root servers to insure the availability of your DFS resources. 4) If you install DFS on your domain controllers, you must create a domain administrator account to administer DFS. 5) DFS R2 is currently in beta. Patches have been released in December and again in 2005 (March?) which have significantly improved the Microsoft tools for configuring and managing DFS. If you are seriously looking gat DFS, contact Microsoft and ask them to come in and show you what they have currently available for free before you spend any significant time or $$ or a tool you will have to pay for. If what you are really looking for is a tool to transparently monitor, manage and optimize your storage environment, both CIFS and NFS and support multiple vendors without having to install software on your filers or clients, without having to install Windows servers and 3rd party software to manage your heterogeneous environment, there are significantly more robust solutions which integrate into industry standard global name spaces and which ELIMINATE downtime, not just reduce it. YMMV. My $1.25. E. -- ---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6---------7 Eric Kimminau

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VFM and DFS
by Eric Kimminau 03 May '05

03 May '05

VFM or NuView StorageX (they are the exact same product) is an enhanced management GUI for Microsoft DFS with some additional hooks for automating failover in a NetApp (and other?) environment. I have had a number of conversations with the Microsoft DFS project manager. If there is anything Microsoft hates more than anything else, it is telling a customer that they need to purchase a third party product to manage a Microsoft service. This means that either A) Microsoft is going to purchase technology so that they can give it to you for free or B) they are going to develop technology so that they can give it to you for free. Either way a commercial third party product for managing DFS has a relatively short shelf life with a fairly steep price tag if you have significant amount of storage. NuView knows this and has started bundling additional "modules" with their StorageX/VFM product to make it a more attractive solution. All I can say is that you need to take a close look at where it has been installed and ask to talk to customers that have implemented the add-on modules to see what level of success they have seen. If you are considering a 3rd party tool to configure and manage your DFS environment you should understand a couple of things. 1) You MUST be running MS Server 2003 for your DFS root. Win200 is missing some key functionality and stability enhancements which will create a less than stable and less than scaleable DFS environment. Even VFM/StorageX require a Windows 2003 Server./ Their GUI is just that, a "better" GUI for administering DFS. It still requires MS Windows DFS. 2) Your DFS root will either need a Active Directory Domain Controller(s) or a dedicated DFS root server (cluster) depending upon the size and complexity of your environment and the level of authority you want to assign to your DFS administrators. 3) If you want to delegate the administration of DFS to less than domain administrators, you cannot install your DFS root on your AD domain controllers. You will be implementing distributed domain DFS. This means you need one or more clusters of DFS root servers to insure the availability of your DFS resources. 4) If you install DFS on your domain controllers, you must create a domain administrator account to administer DFS. 5) DFS R2 is currently in beta. Patches have been released in December and again in 2005 (March?) which have significantly improved the Microsoft tools for configuring and managing DFS. If you are seriously looking gat DFS, contact Microsoft and ask them to come in and show you what they have currently available for free before you spend any significant time or $$ or a tool you will have to pay for. If what you are really looking for is a tool to transparently monitor, manage and optimize your storage environment, both CIFS and NFS and support multiple vendors without having to install software on your filers or clients, without having to install Windows servers and 3rd party software to manage your heterogeneous environment, there are significantly more robust solutions which integrate into industry standard global name spaces and which ELIMINATE downtime, not just reduce it. YMMV. My $1.25. E. -- ---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6---------7 Eric Kimminau

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test - is list still alive
by Dan O'Brien 02 May '05

02 May '05

test - no need to respond -- Dan O'Brien, dmobrien(a)lcsi.net Cell: 614-783-4859 Work: 614-476-8473

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RE: clear arp on Netapp?
by Cao, Vinh V (Vinh) 02 May '05

02 May '05

Hey Venkat, That works. Thank you very much. Vinh > -----Original Message----- > From: Venkat Appineni [mailto:appinenv@yahoo-inc.com] > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 2:28 PM > To: Cao, Vinh V (Vinh); toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: clear arp on Netapp? > > > Vinh, > > You can avoid a reboot by doing the following > > Source /etc/rc > > This should reread the /etc/rc file and build the new arp table.. > > -Venkat > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com > [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] > On Behalf Of Cao, Vinh V (Vinh) > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 10:51 AM > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: clear arp on Netapp? > > Hello All, > > Does Data Ontapp allow clear arp catch? > > I have F820 Ontapp Version 6.4.2P6. I just need > to clear arp. However, I don't see the command that > is allow me to do clear arp catch. > I need clear arp, not just do "apr -d host_name" > > Here is the problem I have: On filer view I see two host > that are in arp tables, but when I telnet to my file > I do arp -a, it does not show up. > > I tried arp -d host_name, then I got error: > > arp: delete: cannot locate patriots ( patriots is Unix client that map > to filer ) > > From filer view: > > snip ................. > > default router UGS 48 7829558 e4 > routerv3 0:d0:bc:f5:2:f8 UHL 0 0 e10-3 > xena 0:6:5b:3c:e:b0 UHL 0 1 e10-3 > hercules 0:6:5b:3c:e:5c UHL 0 2465 e10-3 > 10.3.101.241 0:b0:d0:c3:1b:2f UHL 0 0 e10-3 > 10.3.255.255 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHL 0 53675 e10-3 > subtract pix UGHD 0 0 e4 > 10.9/16 link#8 UC 0 0 e10-9 > routerv9 0:d0:bc:f5:2:f8 UHL 0 0 e10-9 > 10.9.255.255 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHL 0 53675 e10-9 > patriots pix UGHD 0 13512 e4 > localhost localhost UH 13 1805 lo > > snip .................. > > Clearly I want to remove "subtract" and "patriots" from routing table. > These two are right now not able to map to my filer. > > Does any one know? or the only way is reboot? > > Thanks, > > Vinh >

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RE: clear arp on Netapp?
by Venkat Appineni 02 May '05

02 May '05

Vinh, You can avoid a reboot by doing the following Source /etc/rc This should reread the /etc/rc file and build the new arp table.. -Venkat -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Cao, Vinh V (Vinh) Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 10:51 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: clear arp on Netapp? Hello All, Does Data Ontapp allow clear arp catch? I have F820 Ontapp Version 6.4.2P6. I just need to clear arp. However, I don't see the command that is allow me to do clear arp catch. I need clear arp, not just do "apr -d host_name" Here is the problem I have: On filer view I see two host that are in arp tables, but when I telnet to my file I do arp -a, it does not show up. I tried arp -d host_name, then I got error: arp: delete: cannot locate patriots ( patriots is Unix client that map to filer ) From filer view: snip ................. default router UGS 48 7829558 e4 routerv3 0:d0:bc:f5:2:f8 UHL 0 0 e10-3 xena 0:6:5b:3c:e:b0 UHL 0 1 e10-3 hercules 0:6:5b:3c:e:5c UHL 0 2465 e10-3 10.3.101.241 0:b0:d0:c3:1b:2f UHL 0 0 e10-3 10.3.255.255 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHL 0 53675 e10-3 subtract pix UGHD 0 0 e4 10.9/16 link#8 UC 0 0 e10-9 routerv9 0:d0:bc:f5:2:f8 UHL 0 0 e10-9 10.9.255.255 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHL 0 53675 e10-9 patriots pix UGHD 0 13512 e4 localhost localhost UH 13 1805 lo snip .................. Clearly I want to remove "subtract" and "patriots" from routing table. These two are right now not able to map to my filer. Does any one know? or the only way is reboot? Thanks, Vinh

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clear arp on Netapp?
by Cao, Vinh V (Vinh) 02 May '05

02 May '05

Hello All, Does Data Ontapp allow clear arp catch? I have F820 Ontapp Version 6.4.2P6. I just need to clear arp. However, I don't see the command that is allow me to do clear arp catch. I need clear arp, not just do "apr -d host_name" Here is the problem I have: On filer view I see two host that are in arp tables, but when I telnet to my file I do arp -a, it does not show up. I tried arp -d host_name, then I got error: arp: delete: cannot locate patriots ( patriots is Unix client that map to filer ) From filer view: snip ................. default router UGS 48 7829558 e4 routerv3 0:d0:bc:f5:2:f8 UHL 0 0 e10-3 xena 0:6:5b:3c:e:b0 UHL 0 1 e10-3 hercules 0:6:5b:3c:e:5c UHL 0 2465 e10-3 10.3.101.241 0:b0:d0:c3:1b:2f UHL 0 0 e10-3 10.3.255.255 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHL 0 53675 e10-3 subtract pix UGHD 0 0 e4 10.9/16 link#8 UC 0 0 e10-9 routerv9 0:d0:bc:f5:2:f8 UHL 0 0 e10-9 10.9.255.255 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHL 0 53675 e10-9 patriots pix UGHD 0 13512 e4 localhost localhost UH 13 1805 lo snip .................. Clearly I want to remove "subtract" and "patriots" from routing table. These two are right now not able to map to my filer. Does any one know? or the only way is reboot? Thanks, Vinh

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de-subscribe
by Gordy Peck 02 May '05

02 May '05

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RE: SMB tuning/understanding
by Alan Biren 29 Apr '05

29 Apr '05

OpLkBkDelayedBreak is when an oplock break is sent too soon after an open request completes, some clients lock up. This variable counts the number of times that Data ONTAP must delay before sending an oplock break. The delay is controlled by the cifs.oplocks.opendelta option. In case you need a definition of oplock here it is: Oplocks (opportunistic locks) enable a CIFS client in certain file-sharing scenarios to perform client-side caching of read-ahead, write-behind, and lock information. A client can then read from or write to a file without regularly reminding the server that it needs access to the file in question. This improves performance by reducing network traffic. The NOW site has some fairly simplistic documentation into CIFS Performance Tuning. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Simon Waters Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 6:04 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SMB tuning/understanding Pondering some Microsoft tuning guidelines in one window, and the Filer report in another. What is "OpLkBkDelayedBreak"? And better yet where do I find an idiots guide to the innards of Microsofts networking? ***************************************************************************************************** If you have received this email in error please notify the the system manager or the sender immediately and do not disclosed the to anyone or make copies. ** eSafe scanned this email for viruses, vandals or malicious content ** ** To find out eSafe(TM) and other Aladdin Security Products, contact AMC Corporation at (212) 736-0111 *****************************************************************************************************

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RE: VFM and DFS
by Alan Biren 29 Apr '05

29 Apr '05

To add, NetApp can participate in a Windows DFS, but a key component is File Replication Service(FRS). NetApp does not particpate with the Windows Servers. If you are going to implement DFS and want the NetApp boxes to be in sync with your Windows Servers and eventually migrate off of the Windows File Servers VFM is the way to go. It'll manage the replication between Windows and DOT and share migration. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Charles Bartels Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:37 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: VFM and DFS Hi, My company currently has a couple of Netapps in the office along with a couple of Dell PC file servers. The windows admins would like to implement DFS. I don't really know what that is, but it sounded kind of like the Netapp VFM (Virtual File Manager). Could someone give me a short explanation of the two systems? Ideally I would like to consolidate our file servers onto the Netapps or at least avoid having to add unnecessary windows boxes. (These DFS servers sounded unnecessary to me, but if they are needed I wouldn't have a problem). Thanks. -C. ***************************************************************************************************** If you have received this email in error please notify the the system manager or the sender immediately and do not disclosed the to anyone or make copies. ** eSafe scanned this email for viruses, vandals or malicious content ** ** To find out eSafe(TM) and other Aladdin Security Products, contact AMC Corporation at (212) 736-0111 *****************************************************************************************************

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