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Re: Anyone seen this? .snapshot missing from readdir() even for mount point
by Chris Thompson 04 Dec '00

04 Dec '00

On 14 November, I wrote in toasters about ... [...] > The problem is that sometimes ".snapshot" isn't visible to readdir() > *even* in mount point directories. This seems to happen only in > directories with more than one 4K block (it's notable that "ls -f" > shows .snapshot coming after the first block's worth in such > directories, if it shows up at all), and rather rarely even then > (2 out of over 150 user home directories of >4K that I looked at > today), but as long as the directory isn't tinkered with the state > remains the same. > > I've observed this with several OnTap 5.2.x & 5.3.x releases, and > several different Solaris releases as clients. It *could* be an NFS > client implementation problem, I suppose, but I don't think I believe > that. > > Does this sound familiar to anyone? Thanks to Guy Harris at NetApp this has now been nailed down. It turns out to be a long-standing bug, not yet fixed in any released version of DOT. The problem is that if an NFS client does a READDIRPLUS *starting* at what should be the .snapshot entry (which is indeed interposed between the first and second block) then it gets left out of the results returned. The entry in Bugs Online is 33454, although it's a bit sparse on details at the moment! Chris Thompson University of Cambridge Computing Service, Email: cet1(a)ucs.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG, Phone: +44 1223 334715 United Kingdom.

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RE: Backup solution for 2x F840, 2xF630
by Premanshu Jain 04 Dec '00

04 Dec '00

I would advice to keep things as simple as possible. The Gig-bit and SAN's(FC) are new unproven technologies. Best way to go for direct attached SCSI's , one attached to each filer. One big library, failure will mess all the filers.A distributed architecture is more safe. You may go for an FC upgradable library and wait for FC technology to mature.. prem Premanshu Jain IS Engineering Support Lead Nortel Networks, IP Services Division 2305, Mission College Blvd, Santa Clara, CA 95054 Direct: (408) 565-3573 ESN: 655-3573 eMail: prjain(a)shastanets.com Web: http://www.nortelnetworks.com/ipservices -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Ho [mailto:oliver@interq.or.jp] Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 1:22 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Backup solution for 2x F840, 2xF630 Dear all, I have been given a task of designing a Netapps backup solution for my network. We have 2x F840 2x F630 and various unix servers. Approx 1TB of data for the netapps. Various Vendors have informed me that the F630 are too slow for FibreChannel. Solution 1 One VERY HUGE Library with 2x FC for F840 and 2x SCSI for F630 card mixture for the netapps 4 Tape drives FC Switch for F840s Solution 2 Library with 2x FC for F840, two tape drives FC Switch for F840s Library with 2x SCSI for F630, two tape drives Solution 3 Three small library with SCSI for each F630 One Library with 2x FC with two tape drives FC Switch for F840s. The funny thing is Solution 1 is the cheapest, then 2,3. I guess its because it mean more hardware. Can someone give me some pointers. These are all very expensive solutions. I have heard that some ppl have used Gigabit ethernet and dumped via NDMP. We are thinking of using Veritas Netbackup for backups. I have heard that you can get some kind of SCSI->FC conversion, so I can connect to whatever FC connected library I may have. What would you do in my case? TIA Regards Oliver Ho.

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Copying Data
by Morgan, Joshua 04 Dec '00

04 Dec '00

1. is there a way to copy data within the a filer without having to \\filer1\share <file://\\filer1\share> . What we are trying to do is copy data from a snapshot to a shared directory for restores and would like the entire copy process to be on the filer. Thanks, Joshua Joshua Morgan TriVergent Communications Sr. Lvl Technical Engineer PH: (864) 331-7939 Fax: (864) 271-7810 jmorgan(a)trivergent.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.trivergent.com <http://www.trivergent.com/> ===================

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How long does it take ...
by ushwy1 04 Dec '00

04 Dec '00

Hi, I hope one of you who has vast experience could share some info about the following question: How long does it take to WAFL_chekc (WACK) a file system with roughly about 2 millions inodes? Thanks in advance! Steve. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/

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How long does it take ...
by ushwy1 04 Dec '00

04 Dec '00

Hi, I hope one of you who has vast experience can provide some insights regarding the following question: How long does it take to WAFL_check a file system that has roughly about 2 millions inodes, assume there is no inconsistency. Thanks in advance. Steve. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/

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RE: Snap Manager for Exchange Question
by Mankovsky, Mike 04 Dec '00

04 Dec '00

Joshua, >1. is there a way to specify the name of the directory that gets made when the snapshot is taken? No. >2. if #1 is no then does anyone have a script to call to the newly created snapshot and copy the data somewhere else? Contact Network Appliance Customer Support for some sample scripts and recommended strategies for archiving SnapManager Snapshots to tape. Regards, Mike Mankovsky Network Appliance Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Morgan, Joshua [mailto:JMorgan@trivergent.com] Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 9:02 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Snap Manager for Exchange Question 1. is there a way to specify the name of the directory that gets made when the snapshot is taken? 2. if #1 is no then does anyone have a script to call to the newly created snapshot and copy the data somewhere else? 3. if all the above are no what is a good automated backup strategy when using snap manager for exchange? Joshua Morgan TriVergent Communications Sr. Lvl Technical Engineer PH: (864) 331-7939 jmorgan(a)trivergent.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.trivergent.com <http://www.trivergent.com/> ===================

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Snap Manager for Exchange Question
by Morgan, Joshua 04 Dec '00

04 Dec '00

1. is there a way to specify the name of the directory that gets made when the snapshot is taken? 2. if #1 is no then does anyone have a script to call to the newly created snapshot and copy the data somewhere else? 3. if all the above are no what is a good automated backup strategy when using snap manager for exchange? Joshua Morgan TriVergent Communications Sr. Lvl Technical Engineer PH: (864) 331-7939 jmorgan(a)trivergent.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.trivergent.com <http://www.trivergent.com/> ===================

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Backup solution for 2x F840, 2xF630
by Oliver Ho 04 Dec '00

04 Dec '00

Dear all, I have been given a task of designing a Netapps backup solution for my network. We have 2x F840 2x F630 and various unix servers. Approx 1TB of data for the netapps. Various Vendors have informed me that the F630 are too slow for FibreChannel. Solution 1 One VERY HUGE Library with 2x FC for F840 and 2x SCSI for F630 card mixture for the netapps 4 Tape drives FC Switch for F840s Solution 2 Library with 2x FC for F840, two tape drives FC Switch for F840s Library with 2x SCSI for F630, two tape drives Solution 3 Three small library with SCSI for each F630 One Library with 2x FC with two tape drives FC Switch for F840s. The funny thing is Solution 1 is the cheapest, then 2,3. I guess its because it mean more hardware. Can someone give me some pointers. These are all very expensive solutions. I have heard that some ppl have used Gigabit ethernet and dumped via NDMP. We are thinking of using Veritas Netbackup for backups. I have heard that you can get some kind of SCSI->FC conversion, so I can connect to whatever FC connected library I may have. What would you do in my case? TIA Regards Oliver Ho.

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RE: Lock files
by Mike Sphar 02 Dec '00

02 Dec '00

Hmmm...delete and recreate the share. Interesting idea. I just may try that. It may not be perfect, but I should be able to automate it at least. (The thing I've been trying to avoid doing was writing a script to identify open files and kill individual locks or sessions.) Thanks for the suggestion. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services, BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Muhlestein, Mark [mailto:mark.muhlestein@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 8:18 PM To: 'Mike Sphar'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Lock files This has been a contentious issue because NT and UNIX locking semantics are so different. We have been considering a number of solutions to this, but in the meantime, one thing some people have done is to have users access data via a share that gets deleted when the build system needs to operate exclusively on a set of files. If you use the "-f" option to "cifs shares -delete" it will unceremoniously kick off all CIFS users of that share. Once the share has been recreated the users can get back into that area. It's not perfect, but it has been workable for some people. It is also possible to run scripts that retrieve information on open files, etc. but I don't know of anyone who has actually done that. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@remedy.com] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:09 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Lock files Changing ownership of the file has not had any effect in my experience (this is on NT in general, not just Filers). The denying of access based on an open lock is completely separate from and takes precedence over any ownership as far as I've been able to determine. And no, the Admin generally can't remove a file that has an open lock even if it opened the lock. Try deleting the executable for a process that is currently running and you will probably see what I mean. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services, BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Sterling Woodcock [mailto:sirbruce@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:06 PM To: Mike Sphar; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Lock files ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sphar" <mikey(a)Remedy.COM> To: <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 5:53 PM Subject: RE: Lock files > Neither the UNIX root user nor the NT administrator can remove the files in > question when the locks occur. I believe it is a side-effect of the Filer > enforcing NT locks to UNIX clients. (I don't think Netapp is necessarily > doing anything wrong here. I believe this is the correct behavior in most > cases.) I very commonly encounter situations on NT systems where the > administrator cannot remove a file that is open, no matter who owns it. But under NT, can the admin chown (take ownership) of a file that is locked, and then remove it? Also, can the admin remove a file that it itself has locked? > Of course, even if root *could* remove those files as root/administrator, > I'd still like a way for the files owner to be able to remove them. I'd > rather not have to give my build engineers root/administrator access to my > filer. I agree. I believe that UNIX and NT need to respect each-other's permissions, but it should not alter absolute power.. Bruce

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RE: Lock files
by Muhlestein, Mark 02 Dec '00

02 Dec '00

This has been a contentious issue because NT and UNIX locking semantics are so different. We have been considering a number of solutions to this, but in the meantime, one thing some people have done is to have users access data via a share that gets deleted when the build system needs to operate exclusively on a set of files. If you use the "-f" option to "cifs shares -delete" it will unceremoniously kick off all CIFS users of that share. Once the share has been recreated the users can get back into that area. It's not perfect, but it has been workable for some people. It is also possible to run scripts that retrieve information on open files, etc. but I don't know of anyone who has actually done that. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@remedy.com] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:09 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Lock files Changing ownership of the file has not had any effect in my experience (this is on NT in general, not just Filers). The denying of access based on an open lock is completely separate from and takes precedence over any ownership as far as I've been able to determine. And no, the Admin generally can't remove a file that has an open lock even if it opened the lock. Try deleting the executable for a process that is currently running and you will probably see what I mean. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services, BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Sterling Woodcock [mailto:sirbruce@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:06 PM To: Mike Sphar; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Lock files ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sphar" <mikey(a)Remedy.COM> To: <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 5:53 PM Subject: RE: Lock files > Neither the UNIX root user nor the NT administrator can remove the files in > question when the locks occur. I believe it is a side-effect of the Filer > enforcing NT locks to UNIX clients. (I don't think Netapp is necessarily > doing anything wrong here. I believe this is the correct behavior in most > cases.) I very commonly encounter situations on NT systems where the > administrator cannot remove a file that is open, no matter who owns it. But under NT, can the admin chown (take ownership) of a file that is locked, and then remove it? Also, can the admin remove a file that it itself has locked? > Of course, even if root *could* remove those files as root/administrator, > I'd still like a way for the files owner to be able to remove them. I'd > rather not have to give my build engineers root/administrator access to my > filer. I agree. I believe that UNIX and NT need to respect each-other's permissions, but it should not alter absolute power.. Bruce

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