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FW: How would you respond to this
by Network Appliance List 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Gawd. I always knew that EMC was lower than a snake's belly in a wagon wheel rut, but gee. I'd just educate the management types, addressing each point. And then ask if they want to do business with a company that uses overt fraud as a marketing tool. Then we could call my buddy Guido and have him pay the miscreants a visit. ("Only break the left knee, Guido!" We want them to hobble, not drag!") Brian Cooper BOkf Technical Services Tulsa, Oklahoma bcooper(a)mail.bokf.com Jerry, Tom: FYI -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:41 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: How would you respond to this This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant misrepresentation of a competitors product? barry A few highlights of the comparison: - The F85 is a stripped down, single CPU, low end device with multiple points of failure and a very poor data protection. NetApps service is rated very low by industry experts and they offer next day shipment of parts that the user must install themselves. - The IP4700 is fully redundant, multi-CPU, mid-range device with no single point of failure and hardware based RAID 5 data protection. EMC's world class customer service center has ranked #1 for 6 consecutive years by Gartner Group. Standard 2 year warranty guarantees 4 hours ON SITE w/Parts service by EMC technicians. Plus, our 'call home' proactive maintenance system monitors trends within the system and reports them automatically to our customer service center. Often, EMC technicians will repair a system BEFORE the component actually fails. The 4700 will be configured with 8 drives usable, plus 1 drive for RAID 5 parity and 1 drive for hot swap redundancy. It is scalable all the way to 7000GB (7TB) vs. only 648GB for the F85. The 4700 as configured above is 8RU. In general, the F85 does not scale sufficiently for growth, has poor customer service behind it, has no redundancy, has multiple points of failure, and utilizes a sub-par RAID 0 data protection scheme.

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Re: Repairing
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Hello, Wil: We can repair or replace most NetApp parts at very reasonable prices. Please let me know what defective parts you have and we will be happy to send you a quote. Regards, Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com In a message dated 4/24/01 9:14:54 PM Central Daylight Time, wilng(a)asl.com.hk writes: > Dear all, > > Its there any repairing service from NetApp. I replace my defective item > with my > spare parts. It there any formal channel to repair the defective one? and > the > charge? > > Wil

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RE: snapshot backup
by Clawson, Simon 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

I use Veritas NetBackup to do an NDMP dump. I guess I can just backup the path /.snapshot..? -----Original Message----- From: Rick Hulsey [mailto:RHULSEY@wnco.com] Sent: Wednesday April 2001 13:20 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson Subject: Re: snapshot backup Yes, but be careful if you back this up by mounting the volume and using NFS or CIFS instead of using dump on the filer or some other backup client. If the pathnames to the files that you are backing up once mounted looks something like "/dir/.snapshot/hourly.0/otherdir/filenames" then you will have some additional work to do if you need to restore those files. If, however, you mount or connect to the .snapshot/hourly.0 directory then the pathnames to your file look something like "/dir/otherdir/filenames". The issue is that anything on a filer below .snapshot is going to be read only so you want to make sure that .snapshot is not in the pathname that gets stored on your tapes. >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 04/25/01 04:32AM >>> Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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Re: snapshot backup
by Rick Hulsey 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Yes, but be careful if you back this up by mounting the volume and using NFS or CIFS instead of using dump on the filer or some other backup client. If the pathnames to the files that you are backing up once mounted looks something like "/dir/.snapshot/hourly.0/otherdir/filenames" then you will have some additional work to do if you need to restore those files. If, however, you mount or connect to the .snapshot/hourly.0 directory then the pathnames to your file look something like "/dir/otherdir/filenames". The issue is that anything on a filer below .snapshot is going to be read only so you want to make sure that .snapshot is not in the pathname that gets stored on your tapes. >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 04/25/01 04:32AM >>> Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Collins, Brian 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Um.... for what it is worth, I just ran "vol status -r" on an F85 - looks like RAID4 to me! f85-rtp> vol status -r Volume vol0 (root) RAID group 0 RAID Disk HA.ID HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ----- ------------ ---- -------------- -------------- parity 5a.5 5a 0 5 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 5a.4 5a 0 4 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 Spare disks for zoned checksum volumes only RAID Disk HA.ID HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ----- ------------ ---- -------------- -------------- spare 5a.3 5a 0 3 0 34732/71132960 spare 5a.2 5a 0 2 0 34732/71132960 spare 5a.1 5a 0 1 0 34732/71132960 spare 5a.0 5a 0 0 0 34732/71132960 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:15 PM > To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'Barry Lustig'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: How would you respond to this > > > Finally, does the F85 really use RAID 0? If so, it's true > that it's not as > failure proof, but then if the model was designed for RAID 0, > then it's > simply not targeted at the same market as a redundant RAID unit. If > capacity and performance are far more important to you then > redundancy, then > RAID 0 is the way to go. (Though as I said, I'd be surprised > if it really > was RAID 0. If it's not, then a blatant lie like that would > immediately > turn me off to any vendor.) > --- > > Since nobody else has responded..I'll step in. > > The F85 enjoys the FULL and complete feature set of WAFL and > its engineering around RAID4 to do its work quickly, quietly, > and with outstanding performance compared to any other > filesystem or features the competition can throw at us. >

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snapshot backup
by Clawson, Simon 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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NDMP and network settings
by Scott Mikusko 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Peoples, I recently set up our new NDMP backup system (new ADIC Scalar-1000 tape library, with 2 F760s acting as NDMP hosts with 4 drives attached to each from the unit). Initially I was having trouble getting other filers to backup via the network to the remote drives on the 2 hosts. I was running all my filers on a private 100Mbs Full-Duplex network (utilising the filers' e0 interfaces or quad cards). Funny thing was, I keep seeing really slow and spotty xfer rates and tape writes: small bursts of 65Kb/s then a few seconds of nothing. When I tried backups via dump to local drives, it was 4-6Mb/s, as expected). So, what was causing the painfully slow performance?? On a whim, knowing I had seen something like this before a long time ago with Legato's client pak s/w, I reset the NDMP hosts' ether interfaces to 100Mbs HALF-duplex. As soon as that duplex setting kicked in, my network xfer rates and tape write shot up to the expected 4-6Mb/s rates. Now, I understand that duplex settings can affect network performance, and that in backups I'm essentially streaming data in one direction (which would make half-duplex a sensible option), but as for WHY I needed to set to half-duplex is a mystery. I would think being Full-duplex would be just as well. This duplex issue is, as far as I could tell reading over Netapp and Veritas docs, not address explicity when talking about 3-way backups. While I'm glad I seem to have fixed the problem, the fact that it was a problem puzzles me. So for anyone out there doing 3-way backups or dumps to remote tape drives, had you seen this before? Is anyone running NDMP and remote drives but not using half-duplex network settings? Just curious. -Scott Mikusko

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RE: Repairing
by Mohler, Jeff 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

If you are in Hong Kong (good bet here) you can call 800-8008-0800. Please call any of the following offices for support at any time. Europe: 00-800-44-638277 Europe: 31-23-567-9605 Asia: 800-8008-0800 Asia: 65-3170317 Malaysia: 1-800-804289 Taiwan: 0080-14-8246 India: 65 317-0317 Indonesia: 011-803-015-200-0703 You can also open a case via NOW (now.netapp.com) and you will get immediate reponse for assistance, or you can open your own RMA tickets to replace faulty hardware without having to use the phone at all. -----Original Message----- From: Wil Ng [mailto:wilng@asl.com.hk] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 7:17 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Repairing Dear all, Its there any repairing service from NetApp. I replace my defective item with my spare parts. It there any formal channel to repair the defective one? and the charge? Wil

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RE: Repairing
by Mohler, Jeff 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

You will have to consult with the tech support representatives on your options, and depending on your service agreements many should be available to you. -----Original Message----- From: Wil Ng [mailto:wilng@asl.com.hk] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:19 PM To: Mohler, Jeff; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Repairing Hi Mohler, Thanks for your information! However what if the warranty has expired? Wil "Mohler, Jeff" wrote: > If you are in Hong Kong (good bet here) you can call 800-8008-0800. > > Please call any of the following offices for support at any time. > > Europe: 00-800-44-638277 > Europe: 31-23-567-9605 > Asia: 800-8008-0800 > Asia: 65-3170317 > Malaysia: 1-800-804289 > Taiwan: 0080-14-8246 > India: 65 317-0317 > Indonesia: 011-803-015-200-0703 > > You can also open a case via NOW (now.netapp.com) and you will get immediate reponse for assistance, or you can open your own RMA tickets to replace faulty hardware without having to use the phone at all. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wil Ng [mailto:wilng@asl.com.hk] > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 7:17 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Repairing > > Dear all, > > Its there any repairing service from NetApp. I replace my defective item with my > spare parts. It there any formal channel to repair the defective one? and the > charge? > > Wil

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Repairing
by Wil Ng 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Dear all, Its there any repairing service from NetApp. I replace my defective item with my spare parts. It there any formal channel to repair the defective one? and the charge? Wil

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