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13514 discussions

RE: snapshot backup
by Clawson, Simon 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

That sounds like exactly what I meant. We currently backup / and everything below that. What I was hoping I could do was backup /.snapshot/weekly0 and then use this as my full backup. I user Veritas NetBackup to fire off the NDMP job on the filer, so I guess I would need to modify the backup path to /.snapshot/Weekly0? Simon > -----Original Message----- > From: Traitel, Eyal [mailto:eyal@netapp.com] > Sent: Wednesday April 2001 16:29 > To: 'E.J. Jantz'; toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson > Subject: RE: snapshot backup > > > Our snapshots are to be more exact "copy on new write" as > opposed to "copy on old write", with the advantage of no > penalty at all in terms of performance of taking the > snapshot, and performance of filesystem after taking it > (think of "copy on old write" - filesystem needs to read old > block, write it in the backup location, then write the new > block in old place - that's 3 I/Os. For us it's only 1). > We do not have to go back to specific locations on the disk, > and that's a real advantage in terms of performance. > > In regards to full compared to snapshot - with NetApp, it's > probably always better to backup snapshots, as they are > point-in-time - when you've started your backup at 19:00, all > of it will be consistent to 19:00 sharp, unlike traditional > backup, which data changes while you backup... So - if you > get me right - you can even do full backup from a snapshot... > > On Legato - I think you can just mention .snapshot/hourly.0 > for example in your path of backup. If you use NDMP, you > anyway backup a snapshot, as the filer's dump creates one > automatically for you. > > Hope it somewhat helps, > Eyal. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer > CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA > > Network Appliance BV > Holland Office Center > Kruisweg 799b > 2132 NG, Hoofddorp > The Netherlands > Office: +31 23 567 9685 > Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 > Email: eyal(a)netapp.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: E.J. Jantz [mailto:ej_jantz@bswintl.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:55 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com > Subject: Re: snapshot backup > > > just a question: If the 'snapshots are "copy on writes' doesn't that > mean that a backup of .snapshot is equal to and functions as a full > backup? If not, can Legato using a NFS mount on a unix server capture > just the info the .snapshot uses? If so, how? > > thanks... > > EJ Jantz, IST Dept. > BSW International > One West Third, Ste 100 > Tulsa, OK 74103-3505 > 918 582-8771 > ej_jantz(a)bswintl.com > 918 295-4166 > 918 587-3594 fax > > > >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 4/25/01 4:32:08 AM > >>> > Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore > from > this data? > > I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a > possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of > backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. > Of > course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but > this > would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. > > Any ideas/suggestions/views? > > Simon > > Simon Clawson > HDS Team Systems Administrator > Mentor Graphics Uk > Rivergate > London Road > Newbury > Berkshire > RG14 2QB > <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>> >

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RE: snapshot backup
by Fox, Adam 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but I don't think what you want to do will work. I'm not sure how backing up a snapshot will speed up your backups. A snapshot is a point-in-time view of an entire volume. If you run our dump command either from the command line or via ndmp against the active volume (non-snapshot) ONTAP will create a snapshot for the duration of the dump. Snapshots are not strictly incremental changes, they are a view of the whole volume. So while you certainly can backup a snapshot, (in fact, that is strongly recommended) I'm not sure how it will speed things up. If you elaborate, I'll do my best to help out. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Clawson, Simon [mailto:simon_clawson@mentorg.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 5:32 AM > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: snapshot backup > > > Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform > a restore from > this data? > > I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a > possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of > backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the > whole filer. Of > course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a > month, but this > would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. > > Any ideas/suggestions/views? > > Simon > > Simon Clawson > HDS Team Systems Administrator > Mentor Graphics Uk > Rivergate > London Road > Newbury > Berkshire > RG14 2QB > <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>> >

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Re: snapshot backup
by E.J. Jantz 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

just a question: If the 'snapshots are "copy on writes' doesn't that mean that a backup of .snapshot is equal to and functions as a full backup? If not, can Legato using a NFS mount on a unix server capture just the info the .snapshot uses? If so, how? thanks... EJ Jantz, IST Dept. BSW International One West Third, Ste 100 Tulsa, OK 74103-3505 918 582-8771 ej_jantz(a)bswintl.com 918 295-4166 918 587-3594 fax >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 4/25/01 4:32:08 AM >>> Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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RE: snapshot backup
by Steve Kappel 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

>I use Veritas NetBackup to do an NDMP dump. I guess I can just backup the >path /.snapshot..? Yes. Restore using NetBackup "Alternate Path Restore". >-----Original Message----- >From: Rick Hulsey [mailto:RHULSEY@wnco.com] >Sent: Wednesday April 2001 13:20 >To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson >Subject: Re: snapshot backup > > >Yes, but be careful if you back this up by mounting the volume and using NFS >or CIFS instead of using dump on the filer or some other backup client. If >the pathnames to the files that you are backing up once mounted looks >something like "/dir/.snapshot/hourly.0/otherdir/filenames" then you will >have some additional work to do if you need to restore those files. If, >however, you mount or connect to the .snapshot/hourly.0 directory then the >pathnames to your file look something like "/dir/otherdir/filenames". The >issue is that anything on a filer below .snapshot is going to be read only >so you want to make sure that .snapshot is not in the pathname that gets >stored on your tapes. > >>>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 04/25/01 04:32AM >>> >Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from >this data? > >I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a >possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of >backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of >course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this >would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. > >Any ideas/suggestions/views? > >Simon > >Simon Clawson >HDS Team Systems Administrator >Mentor Graphics Uk >Rivergate >London Road >Newbury >Berkshire >RG14 2QB ><<Clawson, Simon.vcf>> > > __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve(a)stevekappel.com (Personal)

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Archive Help
by Peter Gauthier 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Hi Folks I need some help or information. I have just joined up and it was suggested that I could look at the archives at the following sites. http://teaparty.mathworks.com:1999/toasters/ http://teaparty.mathworks.com:1999/toasters/Search.html I'm unable to get to either site as the Netscape message reads. There was no response. Server could be down or is not responding. I have tried these site from the Company Office as well as through my home office ISP. Peter

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FW: How would you respond to this
by Network Appliance List 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Gawd. I always knew that EMC was lower than a snake's belly in a wagon wheel rut, but gee. I'd just educate the management types, addressing each point. And then ask if they want to do business with a company that uses overt fraud as a marketing tool. Then we could call my buddy Guido and have him pay the miscreants a visit. ("Only break the left knee, Guido!" We want them to hobble, not drag!") Brian Cooper BOkf Technical Services Tulsa, Oklahoma bcooper(a)mail.bokf.com Jerry, Tom: FYI -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:41 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: How would you respond to this This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant misrepresentation of a competitors product? barry A few highlights of the comparison: - The F85 is a stripped down, single CPU, low end device with multiple points of failure and a very poor data protection. NetApps service is rated very low by industry experts and they offer next day shipment of parts that the user must install themselves. - The IP4700 is fully redundant, multi-CPU, mid-range device with no single point of failure and hardware based RAID 5 data protection. EMC's world class customer service center has ranked #1 for 6 consecutive years by Gartner Group. Standard 2 year warranty guarantees 4 hours ON SITE w/Parts service by EMC technicians. Plus, our 'call home' proactive maintenance system monitors trends within the system and reports them automatically to our customer service center. Often, EMC technicians will repair a system BEFORE the component actually fails. The 4700 will be configured with 8 drives usable, plus 1 drive for RAID 5 parity and 1 drive for hot swap redundancy. It is scalable all the way to 7000GB (7TB) vs. only 648GB for the F85. The 4700 as configured above is 8RU. In general, the F85 does not scale sufficiently for growth, has poor customer service behind it, has no redundancy, has multiple points of failure, and utilizes a sub-par RAID 0 data protection scheme.

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Re: Repairing
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Hello, Wil: We can repair or replace most NetApp parts at very reasonable prices. Please let me know what defective parts you have and we will be happy to send you a quote. Regards, Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com In a message dated 4/24/01 9:14:54 PM Central Daylight Time, wilng(a)asl.com.hk writes: > Dear all, > > Its there any repairing service from NetApp. I replace my defective item > with my > spare parts. It there any formal channel to repair the defective one? and > the > charge? > > Wil

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RE: snapshot backup
by Clawson, Simon 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

I use Veritas NetBackup to do an NDMP dump. I guess I can just backup the path /.snapshot..? -----Original Message----- From: Rick Hulsey [mailto:RHULSEY@wnco.com] Sent: Wednesday April 2001 13:20 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson Subject: Re: snapshot backup Yes, but be careful if you back this up by mounting the volume and using NFS or CIFS instead of using dump on the filer or some other backup client. If the pathnames to the files that you are backing up once mounted looks something like "/dir/.snapshot/hourly.0/otherdir/filenames" then you will have some additional work to do if you need to restore those files. If, however, you mount or connect to the .snapshot/hourly.0 directory then the pathnames to your file look something like "/dir/otherdir/filenames". The issue is that anything on a filer below .snapshot is going to be read only so you want to make sure that .snapshot is not in the pathname that gets stored on your tapes. >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 04/25/01 04:32AM >>> Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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Re: snapshot backup
by Rick Hulsey 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Yes, but be careful if you back this up by mounting the volume and using NFS or CIFS instead of using dump on the filer or some other backup client. If the pathnames to the files that you are backing up once mounted looks something like "/dir/.snapshot/hourly.0/otherdir/filenames" then you will have some additional work to do if you need to restore those files. If, however, you mount or connect to the .snapshot/hourly.0 directory then the pathnames to your file look something like "/dir/otherdir/filenames". The issue is that anything on a filer below .snapshot is going to be read only so you want to make sure that .snapshot is not in the pathname that gets stored on your tapes. >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 04/25/01 04:32AM >>> Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Collins, Brian 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Um.... for what it is worth, I just ran "vol status -r" on an F85 - looks like RAID4 to me! f85-rtp> vol status -r Volume vol0 (root) RAID group 0 RAID Disk HA.ID HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ----- ------------ ---- -------------- -------------- parity 5a.5 5a 0 5 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 5a.4 5a 0 4 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 Spare disks for zoned checksum volumes only RAID Disk HA.ID HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ----- ------------ ---- -------------- -------------- spare 5a.3 5a 0 3 0 34732/71132960 spare 5a.2 5a 0 2 0 34732/71132960 spare 5a.1 5a 0 1 0 34732/71132960 spare 5a.0 5a 0 0 0 34732/71132960 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:15 PM > To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'Barry Lustig'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: How would you respond to this > > > Finally, does the F85 really use RAID 0? If so, it's true > that it's not as > failure proof, but then if the model was designed for RAID 0, > then it's > simply not targeted at the same market as a redundant RAID unit. If > capacity and performance are far more important to you then > redundancy, then > RAID 0 is the way to go. (Though as I said, I'd be surprised > if it really > was RAID 0. If it's not, then a blatant lie like that would > immediately > turn me off to any vendor.) > --- > > Since nobody else has responded..I'll step in. > > The F85 enjoys the FULL and complete feature set of WAFL and > its engineering around RAID4 to do its work quickly, quietly, > and with outstanding performance compared to any other > filesystem or features the competition can throw at us. >

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