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RE: Adding a 36gb shelf to F740 with 18gb shelves
by Knight, Graham 27 Apr '01

27 Apr '01

I have added mixed sized disks into the same volume, but different raid groups using this method *many* times in the field - it works like a charm. You can bet my life on it too. :-) The parity disk functionality has been there for a long time. It worked that way when I put the just released 18 GB drives into a 9 GB drive system way back when...... Graham -----Original Message----- From: Sam Rafter [mailto:rafter@netapp.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:36 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Adding a 36gb shelf to F740 with 18gb shelves A funny thing happened to me on the way to the lab. I went to ask the lab manager if I could do some vol destroys on a few filers to get some mixed disk sizes. Our lab manager, Jeff Mohler, is a reformed PSE, and he'd done the very experiment I was about to conduct at customer sites, many times. Rest assured, you don't need to create a new volume. Look at your sysconfig -r output presently. Since everything's in one volume, the last raid group listed (raid group 1, if you have two raid groups like you say you do) is the raid group that's subject to change in size. This is controlled by the vol option raidsize. Set the raid size to whatever this raid group size is presently by 'vol options <volname> raidsize <n>'. Add your disks. If the number of disks you are adding is greater than <n>, add some number of 36G drives less than n, and change the vol option to the number of 36G disks you intend to add. I had fears that the raid group size would be stored in the raid group by some pernicious machinations, but Jeff assuaged any such trepidations. I'll bet Jeff's life on it. If you have one 18G spare, and one 36G spare, ONTAP now has the smarts to pick the right sized spare. If you are using mixed raid group sizes, I recommend you run ONTAP 6.x to take advantage of the spacemap, and avoid some unpleasant endgame scenarios if you do manage to fill up your disks. -- Sam Rafter Escalations Jerk Network Appliance rafter(a)netapp.com Sam Rafter wrote: > > This used to be the case. Back in the sad days of bug 13880. > > http://now.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=13880 > > This issue is resolved with the whiz-bang spacemap as implemented in 6.0 > and later, where we have a much better idea of where all the space is, > and won't paint ourselves into a corner if we don't have to. > > As to the parity disk question, to quote our own dogfood: > > http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/ontap/rel601r3/html/sag/disks4.htm > > "Parity disk determination: > If an added disk is larger than the existing parity disk, the added disk > becomes the parity disk, and the former parity disk becomes a data > disk." > > We'll bring Justin back to the lab for reprogramming. > > Now, a reasonable follow up question would be: can I make a new raid > group out of all 36G drives, and not waste any 36G drives as parity > disks on 18G raid groups? My understanding is that, if you change the > volume's raid group size to whatever the size of the 'last' 18G disk > raid group is, we'll make a new raid group out of the 36G drives. I'm > going to test this now. > > -- > Sam Rafter Escalations Jerk > Network Appliance rafter(a)netapp.com > > "Sullivan, Justin" wrote: > > > > Yes, you're going to have a problem.. :( > > > > If you add 36GB drives to an existing RAID group of 18GB disks, the 36GB disks will be reported and used as 18GB drives. > > > > Once a RAID group is established with a parity drive of xxGB, any disks added to that RAID group will only be used to the same capacity (xxGB) as the parity drive. > > > > If you reverse the situation, and add 18GB drives to an existing 36GB drive RAID group, all drives will be used to their full capacity, but you will run into performance troubles as the volume fills up and the system is forced to write only to the larger disks, thereby reducing the number of physical spindles working for you. > > > > You will definitely want to create a new RAID group (or a new volume) for your 36GB drives to take advantage of the higher capacity. > > > > --- > > Justin Sullivan > > Network Appliance, Technical Support Engineer > > Network Appliance Certified Associate > > justins(a)netapp.com > > Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com > > Tech Support Hotline: 1-888-4NETAPP > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jeff Bryer [mailto:bryer@sfu.ca] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 6:26 PM > > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Subject: Adding a 36gb shelf to F740 with 18gb shelves > > > > We have an F740 with 3 shelves of 18GB disks. It's config'd > > as two volumes (two raid sets). We've almost outgrown the > > capacity (we're down to one hot spare and a free disk). > > > > We want to add a new disk shelf to the system, but we're wondering > > if we're going to lose anything by going to a shelf of 36gb disks. > > We don't have any intention of adding new volumes (or new raid > > sets), just growing the existing volumes. > > > > Can we add a shelf of 36gb disks and then switch our 2 existing 18gb parity > > disks over to 36gb disks? We'd keep a 36gb disk as a hot spare and > > use all of the 18gb disks in the volumes (including the 2 freed up > > parity disks and the freed up hot spare). Are we going to run > > into problems with this? Or do we need to keep an 18gb disk around > > as a hot spare as well (ie when an 18gb disks dies and uses a 36gb > > disks as a hot spare, can we force it to go back to the 18gb disk > > once the faulty 18gb disk has been replaced?). > > > > Are the 36gb disks going to be used at full capacity in this situation > > (when mixed with the 18gb)? Or is there a better way to do this? > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Jeff Bryer bryer(a)sfu.ca > > Systems Administrator (604) 291-4935 > > Academic Computing, Simon Fraser University

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RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp
by Sullivan, Justin 27 Apr '01

27 Apr '01

After Mr. Thompson's excellent suggestion of yesterday, we are already working on integrating the customer surveys with the case information on our NOW site. For example.. You receive a message about a survey, click on the link, login to NOW, and the case information is there and a place where you can fill out the survey with your comments. Customer feedback is EXTREMELY important to us. I really can't stress how vital it really is. You should *NEVER* get "okay" support from Network Appliance.. It should always be AT LEAST "good". Regrettably, if you only get "okay" support, we have no way of knowing if you don't fill out the survey. :) But it is our mission to "Simplify the Customer Experience," and this is an excellent point. Click.. Fill out survey.. Click.. <makes sense to me..> - Justin -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Lefort [mailto:slefort@broadcom.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:46 AM To: 'Mohler, Jeff'; 'Sullivan, Justin'; 'Chris Thompson'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp Not true Jeff. I discard the surveys - always. Reason. Insufficient information to describe what this case is about. I would prefer the email had a link I could click on that would take me back to the case so I could be recall the case - then allow a rating right then and there. Alternatively, the email could have MORE case information in it - and I would reply to that. But I won't reply to something where I no longer recall the facts. ...Stu -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Mohler, Jeff Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:44 PM To: Sullivan, Justin; 'Chris Thompson'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp I would think that it would take more of my time, to load up the WWW browser to work it there, than to insert five numbers between the ()'s. -----Original Message----- From: Sullivan, Justin [mailto:Justin.Sullivan@netapp.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 1:22 PM To: 'Chris Thompson'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp Capital idea.. We would certainly like to have more surveys returned - we should like to see EVERY survey returned. You have an excellent point - why not have a web-based survey form? Easy, friendly, quick.. Back in the days when I was a NetApp customer, I admit, I threw them away too - too much trouble to fill out the e-mail form; who has that kind of time anymore? I have passed your idea along to the folks in Customer Satisfaction who can make this happen. Cheers! --- Justin Sullivan Network Appliance, Technical Support Engineer Network Appliance Certified Associate justins(a)netapp.com Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com Tech Support Hotline: 1-888-4NETAPP -----Original Message----- From: Chris Thompson [mailto:cet1@cus.cam.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:04 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp What do you do with the the e-mail that arrives from Quality.Manager(a)netapp.com after a problem is closed with NetApp, inviting you to fill in a "5 STARS Survey" form? I admit I throw them in the e-wastebin. It seems to me that providing only a method of returning these (probably only marginally meaningful) answers by e-mail is absolutely pessimal. If they really want to increase the response rate, surely NetApp should provide a method using forms at now.netapp.com? My vague recollection is that at one time a WWW-browser-based method was offered, but this doesn't seem to be the case now. Chris Thompson University of Cambridge Computing Service, Email: cet1(a)ucs.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG, Phone: +44 1223 334715 United Kingdom.

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RE: legato ndmp
by Chitre, Amol 27 Apr '01

27 Apr '01

So you did a jb config? configured the jukebox as an NDMP jukebox? if so, then did you inventory the jukebox? can you see the concerned drives as NDMP drives within the jukebox ( there is a (J) besides those drives in the devices window )? do you see something like a rd=filer:nrst0a .... as the drive? If all of that is done, and yet you see problems then I will need more information. Please let me know what the networker messages are when you try to label the tapes. Amol. >-----Original Message----- >From: neil lehrer [mailto:nlehrer@ibb.gov] >Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 1:30 PM >To: Chitre, Amol >Cc: toasters; John Ederma; Curt Huyser >Subject: Re: legato ndmp > > >solaris 2.6, networker 6.0.1 patch 001. it will not label blank >ait2 tapes. >the tapes are good, other sw can label them on same hw. it will >label tapes >that already have data on them. > >filer is f760 ontap 5.36r2. tape lib is spectalogic treefrog. > >"Chitre, Amol" wrote: >> >> hi neil, >> what problems are you facing exactly? maybe i can help. >> Amol. >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: neil lehrer [mailto:nlehrer@ibb.gov] >> >Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:46 AM >> >To: toasters >> >Cc: John Ederma; Curt Huyser >> >Subject: legato ndmp >> > >> > >> >hi, >> > >> >does anybody know an engineer at legato that really >> >understands ndmp and how it >> >is implemented in networker? we can't get it to work[with the >> >correct version, >> >patch, and enablers] and their customer service/techsupport >> >has been very poor. >> >since we already use legato for other things, management would >> >prefer to stay >> >with it. >> > >> >thanks. >> > > >-- > > >regards > >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >+ Neil Lehrer >+ >+ United States International Broadcasting Bureau >+ System Development Division >+ >+ voice 202 619-2524 >+ fax 202 619-3576 >+ nlehrer(a)ibb.gov >+ >+ " is this crisis an opportunity or just >+ another grab the fire extinguisher moment?" >+ >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >

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RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp
by Sullivan, Justin 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

Capital idea.. We would certainly like to have more surveys returned - we should like to see EVERY survey returned. You have an excellent point - why not have a web-based survey form? Easy, friendly, quick.. Back in the days when I was a NetApp customer, I admit, I threw them away too - too much trouble to fill out the e-mail form; who has that kind of time anymore? I have passed your idea along to the folks in Customer Satisfaction who can make this happen. Cheers! --- Justin Sullivan Network Appliance, Technical Support Engineer Network Appliance Certified Associate justins(a)netapp.com Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com Tech Support Hotline: 1-888-4NETAPP -----Original Message----- From: Chris Thompson [mailto:cet1@cus.cam.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:04 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp What do you do with the the e-mail that arrives from Quality.Manager(a)netapp.com after a problem is closed with NetApp, inviting you to fill in a "5 STARS Survey" form? I admit I throw them in the e-wastebin. It seems to me that providing only a method of returning these (probably only marginally meaningful) answers by e-mail is absolutely pessimal. If they really want to increase the response rate, surely NetApp should provide a method using forms at now.netapp.com? My vague recollection is that at one time a WWW-browser-based method was offered, but this doesn't seem to be the case now. Chris Thompson University of Cambridge Computing Service, Email: cet1(a)ucs.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG, Phone: +44 1223 334715 United Kingdom.

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SecureShare Quota Manager
by Chuck Ross 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

Quick question to those who have used SSQM. I've looked thru the manual and see that you can set "soft" quotas for users in order to get an idea about disk usage. My question is does SSQM have the ability to notify me when a user has exceeded their "soft" quota? Thanks Chuck

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RE: legato ndmp
by Chitre, Amol 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

hi neil, what problems are you facing exactly? maybe i can help. Amol. >-----Original Message----- >From: neil lehrer [mailto:nlehrer@ibb.gov] >Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:46 AM >To: toasters >Cc: John Ederma; Curt Huyser >Subject: legato ndmp > > >hi, > >does anybody know an engineer at legato that really >understands ndmp and how it >is implemented in networker? we can't get it to work[with the >correct version, >patch, and enablers] and their customer service/techsupport >has been very poor. >since we already use legato for other things, management would >prefer to stay >with it. > >thanks. >

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Anybody using Solid State Disks for DB I/O intensive activities?
by Art Hebert 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

We currently have all of our database components on a f760 which is in a netapp cluster. Another set of redo logs is on the other filer. Has anybody used solid state disks to move their redo logs off of a filer to improve performance? If so what brand and what kind of improvement did you see? Thanks Art Hebert Email: art(a)arzoon.com <mailto:art@arzoon.com> Arzoon IT Dept. Phone: 650 522-6125 Mobile: 650 444-8667

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RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp
by Tom "Mad Dog" Yergeau 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

After reading the other responses to this thread I'd like to reiterate some points others have made that I agree with: (1) A better description of the case would be helpful. Some of us open a lot of cases. (2) A survey for every case is too much. If it's just a drive replacement or a simple administrative task like updating the location of a filer, a survey is really not necessary. I tend to ignore all the surveys I get now just because I get ones for cases that don't justify a survey, and without a detailed description its not worth my time to go to NOW to figure out which case was which. (3) NOW is much more confusing and harder to use since the last redesign. It's also too slow. Also, PLEASE please please MAKE THE COOKIES PERSISTENT. Especially since it is so slow, it is a major PITA to have to sign in EVERY TIME I GO TO THE PAGE. WHY IS THIS NECESSARY? (Sorry about yelling but this bothers me a lot.) Haha. Venting. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Tom -----Original Message----- From: Chris Thompson [mailto:cet1@cus.cam.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:04 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp What do you do with the the e-mail that arrives from Quality.Manager(a)netapp.com after a problem is closed with NetApp, inviting you to fill in a "5 STARS Survey" form? I admit I throw them in the e-wastebin. It seems to me that providing only a method of returning these (probably only marginally meaningful) answers by e-mail is absolutely pessimal. If they really want to increase the response rate, surely NetApp should provide a method using forms at now.netapp.com? My vague recollection is that at one time a WWW-browser-based method was offered, but this doesn't seem to be the case now. Chris Thompson University of Cambridge Computing Service, Email: cet1(a)ucs.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG, Phone: +44 1223 334715 United Kingdom.

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RE: Input/output errors from Linux clients?
by Hubbard, Dan 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

Ditto here. Have 5 machines all in production working for 4+ months now..all 2.2 kernels. -----Original Message----- From: Colm Buckley [mailto:colm@tuatha.org] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:29 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Input/output errors from Linux clients? > Is anyone surprised that linux and NFS still do not play nice together? Ooh, *baguette*! Linux's NFS has been "okay" since the mid-2.2 kernels, and I've had no problems whatsoever with it as of 2.4. Yes, things were Bad in the past, but truly, honestly, surely, everything's okay now. Colm (de-bitching lists since 1995...) -- Colm Buckley, NewWorld Commerce, 16 South Cumberland St., Dublin 2, Ireland. Personal: +353 87 2469146 / colm(a)tuatha.org / http://www.tuatha.org/~colm/ Business: +353 1 4334334 / colm(a)nwcgroup.com / http://www.nwcgroup.com/ No conductor in recorded history has ever asked for "less tenor".

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legato ndmp
by neil lehrer 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

hi, does anybody know an engineer at legato that really understands ndmp and how it is implemented in networker? we can't get it to work[with the correct version, patch, and enablers] and their customer service/techsupport has been very poor. since we already use legato for other things, management would prefer to stay with it. thanks.

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toasters