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RE: Backup solutions for NDMP with F740's
by Melvin, Grant 03 May '01

03 May '01

Hi Tom, Its possible that your backup throughput of 5-10 MB/sec via NDMP to a single DLT drive is limited by the DLT tape device. Anyone with a filer can run basic benchmarking on their filesystem(s) by running a test "dump to null" by running on the console or via rsh: dump 0f null /vol/vol_name Our rule of thumb is to add another 5% overhead in time for the actual writing to tape. Our supported tape devices has increased recently in 6.1 to include: AIT AIT-2 DLT7K DLT8K Mammoth-1 Mammoth-2 9840 3590E You may get faster throughput either by running concurrent qtree backups from each volume or by employing a faster tape device. I'll preempt the "when are you going to support LTO" question by saying we have this drive in our dev labs, but please speak to your sales team about availability of this and other tape devices. I would be interested in receiving either private or public (in this forum) what you (our customers) are planning to do regarding tape devices in the short & long term though. Cheers, Grant -----Original Message----- From: Tom "Mad Dog" Yergeau [mailto:MadDog@fool.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 3:21 PM To: 'Eric Hester'; ''Toasters@Mathworks. Com' ' Subject: RE: Backup solutions for NDMP with F740's Eric, When we went from over-the-wire backups to direct-attach NDMP backups, I saw a big increase in backup performance. Especially in incremental backups. NetApp is very good at finding changed files and dumping them to tape quickly, since on an NDMP backup WAFL figures out what has changed. If you're backing up over the network, your backup server has to parse your entire directory structure looking for changed files. WAFL, on the other hand, can just do an inode scan which is blazingly fast compared to walking a large directory tree over the wire. We generally see 5-10 MB/sec throughput via NDMP to a single DLT drive, depending on how well the data compresses. Oddly enough, database files compress really well and gzip'd files compress really poorly. :-) The only downside is that we use NetBackup 3.4, which does not support the NDMP "DAR" feature. Which means if you have a backup that spans three tapes, and you need to restore a 5K file that's on the third tape, you have to read the first two tapes and and to get to the file you need. So a restore can be painful. But, that is VERITAS' fault for not supporting DAR, and if you use Legato or Syncsort, I think you won't have this problem. (If anyone from VERITAS is on this list... DAR support would be really really nice!) MD -----Original Message----- From: Eric Hester [mailto:erich@nuvox.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 4:47 PM To: ''Toasters@Mathworks. Com' ' Subject: Backup solutions for NDMP with F740's We have been using an ADIC Scalar 218 for some time with our F740 cluster with fairly good results until recently. Our Netapps provide the storage for our Web and Mail clusters. We have experienced pretty serious growth and are seeing some significant slow downs in backup turnaround time. We have up until this point also just been backing up the data over NFS mounts to our NetBackup server. Being that most of the data comes from the mail server side and we use maildir, it is not a huge amount of data but is a huge number of smaller files. I'm not very confident that NDMP would completely correct the problem, but it seems that removing the network/nfs overhead couldn't hurt. I think I have made the decision to go with the ADIC Scalar 1000 with 2 drives dedicated to the Netapps (1 to each in the cluster) with NDMP and 4 more drives dedicated to the backup server for other systems. 2 questions: 1) What are some impressions on NDMP as a performance gain for backups? Right now the network does not seem to bottleneck the process as we have dedicated 100m links from the servers to a separate NFS/backup network, and 4 channel etherchannel from each netapp to that same network. From MRTG graphs this network is mostly idle (10-20m max) even during backups. I don't appear to be able to keep the DLT's saturated (in other words the activity light doesn't stay on the whole time, so it is not streaming non stop) during backups, and I don't know if this is NFS overhead, or there is another problem. Is NDMP more capable of keeping a DLT fully saturated and therefore more efficient, or do I still need to look at this as a Netbackup issue? 2) A little OT but - Does anyone have any good experience with this particular library (ADIC Scalar 1000)? I loved our smaller Scalar.. but have more long term experience with StorageTek. My salesperson has done a good job convincing me of the advantages of this box, and I am pretty much sold. Just curious if anyone else has any horror stories or glowing recommendations. Eric Hester Director of Systems Engineering NuVox Communications eric(a)nuvox.net

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Help With Dump of a Filer 760
by Reed, Irene 02 May '01

02 May '01

We currently own a Filer 760 running ONTAP 6.0.1.R3. Currently we are backing up Unix files via nfs mounts. Soon we plan to put a lot of NT data on the filer that needs to be backed up. Our agency backup software is Legato 6.01 running on AIX 4.3.3. This version of Legato is non NDMP aware so we cannot use it to backup the filer. I am considering buying a StorageTek L20 (10 slots with 1 DLT7000 drive) and attaching it directly to the filer via the onboard scsi adapter. I would like to use dump and restore to carry out the backups so that I do not have to buy another backup software solution. Netapp says this will work if I can put the L20 in sequential mode. Does anyone know what this means? Is anyone backing up a filer in this manner? If yes I would love to hear from you. Also any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Irene Reed Texas Education Agency

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ndmp restore
by neil lehrer 02 May '01

02 May '01

hi, i have noticed, during testing, that ndmp restores don't tell you anything[at least for the sw i have looked at]. basically, if i didn't know any better, i would think, from looking at job reports, that the whole volume or qtree was restored. the dump messages don't say anything other than restore, we have read ..., and restoring NT ACLs. vendors say this is a limitation of ndmp. true? and that reports will be more intelligent when i move up to an ontap ver with DAR. comments? thanks

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Connecting a spectralogic Gator Tape Library to an 840
by Manny Kaiser 02 May '01

02 May '01

Hi, Can someone specify the exact card number I need to order in order to connect a Spectralogic Gator 12000 tape library directly (not through a switch) to a Netapp 840. I have two cards on the library, can I have two cards on the netapp? or can I have a dual card on the netapp? One additional bit of info, the library and netapp are about 50 meters apart. Thanks

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MRTG on 2000
by Seth Moskowitz 02 May '01

02 May '01

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with MRTG on Windows 2000. I have followed the instructions for installation and configuration. I have tried it running as a service as well as running via the scheduler. In both scenerios I seem to have the same problem which I assume is due to some kind of error on my part. Following the documentation as to install directories and defaults the HTML files are supposed to appear, from what I understand, in C:\NT-MRTG\Data\filername. All I am getting there are some files with the hostname like filer1_l and filer1.pl_l in C:\NT-MRTG\Data. There are no HTML files populating these areas and there are no directories with my files hostname. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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Re: ssh trusts?
by Rune Bakken 02 May '01

02 May '01

"Traitel, Eyal" <eyal(a)netapp.com> writes: > What do you mean by trust ? In such a way that you can ssh a command to a filer without having to type a password - similar to the way rsh works, but with more security. This is usually done by storing a ssh-identity public key that can be matched with the one used by an admin-user. >>>>>>>>>.rune -- Rune Bakken "I feel sorry for people who don't drink. System Administrator When they wake up in the morning, that's as Nextra, good as they're going to feel all day." - Telenor Company - Frank Sinatra

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RE: Adding a 36gb shelf to F740 with 18gb shelves
by Mohler, Jeff 01 May '01

01 May '01

I had fears that the raid group size would be stored in the raid group by some pernicious machinations, but Jeff assuaged any such trepidations. I'll bet Jeff's life on it. --- Gee..thanks. *g* If anyone has filers in South Miami Beach, Malaysia, or Buffalo (during a home Sabres or Bills game)..Im not totally against being flown out there to type 'df' on your filer or something. I -may- even bring swag from Sam's desk.

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RE: Backup solutions for NDMP with F740's
by Tom "Mad Dog" Yergeau 01 May '01

01 May '01

Eric, When we went from over-the-wire backups to direct-attach NDMP backups, I saw a big increase in backup performance. Especially in incremental backups. NetApp is very good at finding changed files and dumping them to tape quickly, since on an NDMP backup WAFL figures out what has changed. If you're backing up over the network, your backup server has to parse your entire directory structure looking for changed files. WAFL, on the other hand, can just do an inode scan which is blazingly fast compared to walking a large directory tree over the wire. We generally see 5-10 MB/sec throughput via NDMP to a single DLT drive, depending on how well the data compresses. Oddly enough, database files compress really well and gzip'd files compress really poorly. :-) The only downside is that we use NetBackup 3.4, which does not support the NDMP "DAR" feature. Which means if you have a backup that spans three tapes, and you need to restore a 5K file that's on the third tape, you have to read the first two tapes and and to get to the file you need. So a restore can be painful. But, that is VERITAS' fault for not supporting DAR, and if you use Legato or Syncsort, I think you won't have this problem. (If anyone from VERITAS is on this list... DAR support would be really really nice!) MD -----Original Message----- From: Eric Hester [mailto:erich@nuvox.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 4:47 PM To: ''Toasters@Mathworks. Com' ' Subject: Backup solutions for NDMP with F740's We have been using an ADIC Scalar 218 for some time with our F740 cluster with fairly good results until recently. Our Netapps provide the storage for our Web and Mail clusters. We have experienced pretty serious growth and are seeing some significant slow downs in backup turnaround time. We have up until this point also just been backing up the data over NFS mounts to our NetBackup server. Being that most of the data comes from the mail server side and we use maildir, it is not a huge amount of data but is a huge number of smaller files. I'm not very confident that NDMP would completely correct the problem, but it seems that removing the network/nfs overhead couldn't hurt. I think I have made the decision to go with the ADIC Scalar 1000 with 2 drives dedicated to the Netapps (1 to each in the cluster) with NDMP and 4 more drives dedicated to the backup server for other systems. 2 questions: 1) What are some impressions on NDMP as a performance gain for backups? Right now the network does not seem to bottleneck the process as we have dedicated 100m links from the servers to a separate NFS/backup network, and 4 channel etherchannel from each netapp to that same network. From MRTG graphs this network is mostly idle (10-20m max) even during backups. I don't appear to be able to keep the DLT's saturated (in other words the activity light doesn't stay on the whole time, so it is not streaming non stop) during backups, and I don't know if this is NFS overhead, or there is another problem. Is NDMP more capable of keeping a DLT fully saturated and therefore more efficient, or do I still need to look at this as a Netbackup issue? 2) A little OT but - Does anyone have any good experience with this particular library (ADIC Scalar 1000)? I loved our smaller Scalar.. but have more long term experience with StorageTek. My salesperson has done a good job convincing me of the advantages of this box, and I am pretty much sold. Just curious if anyone else has any horror stories or glowing recommendations. Eric Hester Director of Systems Engineering NuVox Communications eric(a)nuvox.net

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ndmpcopy changes root permissions
by Chris Craft 01 May '01

01 May '01

When I run ndmpcopy as root: #/usr/local/ndmp/src/ndmpcopy -v machA:/vol/corp/old machB:/vol/sw3/old my permissions are changed to d--------- as follows: Before the ndmpcopy (from) directory and permissions: # ls -ld /net/machA/vol/corp/old drwxrwxrwx 8 root other 4096 Mar 20 1999 /net/machA/vol/corp/old After the ndmpcopy (to) directory and permissions: # ls -ld /net/machB/vol/sw3/old d--------- 8 root other 4096 Mar 20 1999 /net/machB/vol/sw3/old exportfs machA corp -root=roothost machB sw3 -root=roothost cifs shares machA corp everyone /full control machB sw3 everyone /full control machA and machB are 840c with 5.3.7R2 Any input would be appreciated. PS machA:/vola/dir to machA:/volb/dir doesn't change the permissions. Permissions aren't changed for directories that aren't owned by root. Ndmpcopy works fine for these directories.

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Any experience...
by Robert Mance 01 May '01

01 May '01

with a company called Winchester Systems? They're advertising the 'World's Fastest RAID Disk Array' at a very reasonable price. I'm getting pressure from the CTO to get these things in here for eval. We currently have an F840 that I'm extremely happy with. I don't necessarily want to compare the two ... since the F840 is a NAS and Winchester makes locally attached scsi stuff. Just interested any any experience with the company and/or their product. Cheers, Robert -- Robert Mance robert(a)cinesite.com Manager of Technical Operations Cinesite Digital Studios 323-468-5711 (Work) 1017 N Las Palmas Ave., Suite 300 323-468-2180 (FAX) Hollywood, CA. 90038 213-391-7527 (Pager)

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