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13514 discussions

RE: R100 Price?
by 張自光 23 Mar '02

23 Mar '02

After discuss with my manager, I found I misunderstand the market placement of the NearStore R100. And, the performance is very good and well worth the price. You are right, Joe. $0.03~0.02 per MB is too good to be true with the NearStore performance. Therefore, I hereby retract all my opinions and criticisms. Allen TK. Chang Syscape Tech. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Luchtenberg Sent: 2002/3/22 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <mailto:toasters@mathworks.com> Cc: Subject: RE: R100 Price? No error. Note that this price is for 12TB raw (that's the cost to get into the NearStore dance). Well under $0.03 per raw MB (NetApp promotional materials cite $0.02, but I think that's just for the h/w - list price is $275K for the base 12TB system). That's a whole bunch less than a filer -- an F840c or F880c at 12TB will run you 2.5-3x more, and multiple smaller filers even more than that. Of course, the NearStore isn't meant to replace production filers. You're right to make the comparison to other nearline storage devices, and that's where NetApp has to sell its value proposition. I.e. integration with other filers (SnapMirror, SnapVault, SnapRestore), snapshot technology, no latency (compared to libraries w/ media pickers), universal access, better reliability, etc... Other disk-based nearline products are rushing to market now, too. Some are simply repackaged low-end NAS being repositioned to grab some market share. Others may be real players. However, I don't think there's another vendor going this aggressively into the nearline market space that has the comprehensive solution and integration across the enterprise that you can get with NetApp, though. Of course I'm a little biased, since I make some of my living selling these things. :-] Joe Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc. Email: joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com Phone: 757-457-0504 (direct line) 757-858-0600 (front desk) 757-285-1223 (mobile) Fax: 757-858-0606 Please visit us at www.data-line.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen_Chang(a)syscape.com.tw [ mailto:Allen_Chang@syscape.com.tw] > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 3:51 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: R100 Price? > > > > From what I heard from NetApp sales and managers for the past few > months, it seems the new NearStore product line will be a > cost-effective, > low-performance, large capacity filer designated for > near-line storage. > > However, I just downloaded the newest Quoter from the NOW site. > The new Quoter indicated that an R100-12TB preconfigured is priced > for nearly USD$330,000(Wow!!!). Is this an error of the new Quoter? > Or, NetApp executives really think they can use this AMAZING > price to compete with other nearline storage devices? > > *Sigh* > > > Regards, > -- > Allen TK. Chang > Project Manager > allen_chang(a)syscape.com.tw > Syscape Technology > > >

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RE: R100 Price?
by mds＠gbnet.net 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

Just for interest: http://www.nexsan.com/products/products/ataboy2/ataboy2.html I was quoted ~20K USD before discounts for a full 1.6TB 3U shelf. Given the 12TB starting point, the head and software and incremental discount as you get bigger/more of them I'd say the R100 is fairly decent value. The opening markedroid babble made me think it was an HSM product which I've hoped NetApp would consider doing for a long time. Sadly it's just a backup staging area that could make a decent high-capacity straightforward filer for many people. Nice start into a developing storage niche though. -- -Mark ... an Englishman in London ...

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RE: Migrating NT directories...
by Walsh, Warren (MN65) 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

Check out Quest Software's Fastlane DM Consolidator. Excellent tool that migrates local users, groups, file permissions, and changes SIDS. http://www.quest.com/fastlane/consolidator/ <http://www.quest.com/fastlane/consolidator/> Used successfully on several NT file server migrations. Very quick, too. If you're using just global NT groups for security and don't have to recreate local groups and users, a simple backup and restore preserving file permissions would work as well. Assuming your backup software preserves the NT ACLs (some don't), and the filer volume uses NT style permissions as well. -warren Warren Walsh Honeywell Laboratories Information Technology 612-951-7837 warren.walsh(a)honeywell.com -----Original Message----- From: Don.Hickey(a)alcatel.com [mailto:Don.Hickey@alcatel.com] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:08 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Migrating NT directories... Basic question.... what tools are commonly used to migrate NT directories with complex permission sets? NT is not very good at preserving permission's. I'm looking at the best method of migrating NT group directories, many of which have very specific file permissions. I've tried tools such as dumpacl but many of the functions don't work against the filer. I'm running 6.1.1R2 on clustered 840's. Thanks!

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RE: Migrating NT directories...
by Lynch, Kevin 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

Take a look at RoboCopy from the NT resoucre Kit. I havn't tried in on the filer but I would think it would work. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: beartman(a)ThoughtWorks.com [mailto:beartman@ThoughtWorks.com] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:38 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Migrating NT directories... We to use SecureCopy here. Nice product. |---------+----------------------------> | | Don.Hickey@alcate| | | l.com | | | Sent by: | | | owner-toasters@ma| | | thworks.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2002 08:07 | | | AM | | | | |---------+----------------------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: toasters(a)mathworks.com | | cc: | | Subject: Migrating NT directories... | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------| Basic question.... what tools are commonly used to migrate NT directories with complex permission sets? NT is not very good at preserving permission's. I'm looking at the best method of migrating NT group directories, many of which have very specific file permissions. I've tried tools such as dumpacl but many of the functions don't work against the filer. I'm running 6.1.1R2 on clustered 840's. Thanks!

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RE: Putting a DS14 in a clustered system with mixed shelves ...
by Wedge, Cliff 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

I'll have the author of the guide see if he can assist you. Thanks, Cliff Wedge Mgr.., Technical Publications Network Appliance -----Original Message----- From: Waters, G Scott DSTI [mailto:scott.waters@SBCCOM.APGEA.ARMY.MIL] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:54 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Putting a DS14 in a clustered system with mixed shelves ... Ok ... Here's a tougher one ... I have a DS14 I need to add to a filer that is clustered. The docs tell you that the shelf needs to be last in the loop. What about in a clustered environment?? Does anyone have any experience in this scenario?? A NetApp tech said he would research this for me ... but I have not heard back from him. Thanks (as always) for your input. - Scott W. scott.waters(a)sbccom.apgea.army.mil

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RE: Simple 760 question ...
by Todd Phillips 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

That's correct. You can not add RAM to any of NetApps Filers. They are configed and shipped from the factory and cannot be modified. Only way to add RAM would be to upgrade the head. -----Original Message----- From: Rune Bakken To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Sent: 3/22/2002 8:58 AM Subject: Re: Simple 760 question ... "Waters, G Scott DSTI" <scott.waters(a)SBCCOM.APGEA.ARMY.MIL> writes: > My recollection (which I hope is correct) is that new filers come max'ed out > with RAM ... but the older filers did not and thus could be upgraded. Is > that correct? I believe that the F7xx and onward series came with max'ed out RAM, you may want to check the system configuration guide on NOW for reference. http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/hardware/NetApp/syscfg/ >>>>>>>.rune -- Rune Bakken Senior System Administrator Telenor Business Company (Nextra), IP-Services Ph: +47 22 77 03 93

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RE: Putting a DS14 in a clustered system with mixed shelves ...
by Todd Phillips 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

Same thing. I've done several of these. Even in a clustered config, the Filers are still autonomous until a fail over occurs. So, when adding a DS14 to an existing loop, it needs to be the last one on the loop. You have to break the cluster. Down the filer your adding the shelf to. Ad the shelf. Bring filer back on line. Re-establish the cluster. Good luck. Todd -----Original Message----- From: Waters, G Scott DSTI To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Sent: 3/22/2002 8:54 AM Subject: Putting a DS14 in a clustered system with mixed shelves ... Ok ... Here's a tougher one ... I have a DS14 I need to add to a filer that is clustered. The docs tell you that the shelf needs to be last in the loop. What about in a clustered environment?? Does anyone have any experience in this scenario?? A NetApp tech said he would research this for me ... but I have not heard back from him. Thanks (as always) for your input. - Scott W. scott.waters(a)sbccom.apgea.army.mil

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quota notification script for NT
by Alfred Lim 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

Hi Everyone, Anyone has quota notification script for NT? I have tried the perl quota script using ActivePerl in NT, and it always give me a divided error or something like that. Thanks... Alfred

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Re: Migrating NT directories...
by beartman＠ThoughtWorks.com 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

We to use SecureCopy here. Nice product. |---------+----------------------------> | | Don.Hickey@alcate| | | l.com | | | Sent by: | | | owner-toasters@ma| | | thworks.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2002 08:07 | | | AM | | | | |---------+----------------------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: toasters(a)mathworks.com | | cc: | | Subject: Migrating NT directories... | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Basic question.... what tools are commonly used to migrate NT directories with complex permission sets? NT is not very good at preserving permission's. I'm looking at the best method of migrating NT group directories, many of which have very specific file permissions. I've tried tools such as dumpacl but many of the functions don't work against the filer. I'm running 6.1.1R2 on clustered 840's. Thanks!

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RE: R100 Price?
by 張自光 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

I agree. I also make my living selling NetApps right here in Taiwan. However, maybe the scenario is true for North America market. But in Taiwan, or the whole Asia market, USD$300,000 as the entrance price is TOO ridiculous. People will buy high performance filers with this price, but not for some IDE disks assembled, low- performance nearline filers. If they want to compete with other nearline storage devices in this market, they should set the entrance lower. I think I can persuade my clients to spend USD$100,000 for a NearStore with 4TB capacity, but not a USD$300,000 12TB NearStore. Why not let customers choose the capacity and price tag they want? *Sigh* Regards, -- Allen TK. Chang Syscape Tech -----Original Message----- From: Joe Luchtenberg Sent: 2002/3/22 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <mailto:toasters@mathworks.com> Cc: Subject: RE: R100 Price? No error. Note that this price is for 12TB raw (that's the cost to get into the NearStore dance). Well under $0.03 per raw MB (NetApp promotional materials cite $0.02, but I think that's just for the h/w - list price is $275K for the base 12TB system). That's a whole bunch less than a filer -- an F840c or F880c at 12TB will run you 2.5-3x more, and multiple smaller filers even more than that. Of course, the NearStore isn't meant to replace production filers. You're right to make the comparison to other nearline storage devices, and that's where NetApp has to sell its value proposition. I.e. integration with other filers (SnapMirror, SnapVault, SnapRestore), snapshot technology, no latency (compared to libraries w/ media pickers), universal access, better reliability, etc... Other disk-based nearline products are rushing to market now, too. Some are simply repackaged low-end NAS being repositioned to grab some market share. Others may be real players. However, I don't think there's another vendor going this aggressively into the nearline market space that has the comprehensive solution and integration across the enterprise that you can get with NetApp, though. Of course I'm a little biased, since I make some of my living selling these things. :-] Joe Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc. Email: joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com Phone: 757-457-0504 (direct line) 757-858-0600 (front desk) 757-285-1223 (mobile) Fax: 757-858-0606 Please visit us at www.data-line.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen_Chang(a)syscape.com.tw [ mailto:Allen_Chang@syscape.com.tw] > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 3:51 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: R100 Price? > > > > From what I heard from NetApp sales and managers for the past few > months, it seems the new NearStore product line will be a > cost-effective, > low-performance, large capacity filer designated for > near-line storage. > > However, I just downloaded the newest Quoter from the NOW site. > The new Quoter indicated that an R100-12TB preconfigured is priced > for nearly USD$330,000(Wow!!!). Is this an error of the new Quoter? > Or, NetApp executives really think they can use this AMAZING > price to compete with other nearline storage devices? > > *Sigh* > > > Regards, > -- > Allen TK. Chang > Project Manager > allen_chang(a)syscape.com.tw > Syscape Technology > > >

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