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13529 discussions

Adding RAM
by David Schairer 05 Mar '03

05 Mar '03

We were told recently by someone who's now left Netapp that it's "routine" inside Netapp to to put more RAM (dynamic, not NVRAM) in 7x0 and 8x0-class boxes than the published maximum. I assume this is with higher-density memory. Has anyone outside netapp seen or heard this done? I'd like to know if it's been observed in the wild before I go try to get this rumor confirmed through our sales channels. --DRS

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by ririka＠email.it 03 Mar '03

03 Mar '03

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re-install a F87 ?
by Frank Bonnet 03 Mar '03

03 Mar '03

Hi Due to several install problem I would like to re-install completely a F87 , erase all data and install Ontap how is it possible as there are no boot diskettes ? Thanks -- Frank Bonnet

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Snapvault and 6.4
by Frank Gilmurray 28 Feb '03

28 Feb '03

Anyone using snapvault w/ 6.4? We use snapvault to update a R100 and it was working fine until we upgraded to 6.4 yesterday. We upgraded to get the 255 snapshot limit. I've opened a case on this but was wondering if anyone else has any ideas on what could be going wrong. The client snapshot is fine but the server snapshot has yesterday's contents even though it says it was xfered this morning at 2:05. A directory I created yesterday shows up in the client snapshot but not in the server snapshot. None of the qtrees were updated last night. Thanks, Frank -- Frank Gilmurray Release Engineer Nokia, Inc. phone: (650) 625-2179 313 Fairchild Drive, Blgd. A cell: (650) 892-4029 Mountain View, CA 94043 email: Frank.Gilmurray(a)nokia.com

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R100 vol config for performance
by Mark Bentley 28 Feb '03

28 Feb '03

I'm already spreading disks in a volume across the 7 SCSI controllers, but I'm wondering if there is also a performance advantage/disadvantage to spreading out the disks in a volume across the three IDE-to-SCSI bridges in each R100 disk shelf? For example, if I wanted to create a volume with 3 disks, would it be better to pick three disks on the same bridge (like 3.0, 3.1, and 3.2) or would it be better to pick three across three bridges (like 3.0, 3.8, and 3.12) ? Or doesn't it make a difference? Thanks, Mark -- Mark Bentley TDG Unix Lab Ops AT&T Wireless Services Phone: 425-580-1667

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RE: Filer's security information
by Kumar, Rahul 28 Feb '03

28 Feb '03

Please sync the time on netapp to the match it to the Samba Machines time. This should solve the error. Rahul Kumar, Infrastructure Analyst, EDS PLM Solutions, Pune, India. Tele: +91-20-2930812 Cell: +00-91-9422087523 Email: rahul.kumar(a)eds.com -----Original Message----- From: Frank Bonnet [mailto:bonnetf@bart.esiee.fr] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 4:18 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Filer's security information Hi I'm STILL trying to use a Samba server 3.0 as a PDC at this point I have the following error message Fri Feb 28 11:42:00 CET [rc:CRITICAL]: CIFS - Filer's security information differs from domain controller. thanks for any infos -- Frank Bonnet

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Filer's security information
by Frank Bonnet 28 Feb '03

28 Feb '03

Hi I'm STILL trying to use a Samba server 3.0 as a PDC at this point I have the following error message Fri Feb 28 11:42:00 CET [rc:CRITICAL]: CIFS - Filer's security information differs from domain controller. thanks for any infos -- Frank Bonnet

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inodes/volumes/mildir/Courier IMAP
by George Kahler 28 Feb '03

28 Feb '03

Hi, I'm about to start a conversion project of our University email system based on mbox folders to Courier IMAP maildir. There are about 50K users using about 250 GB of space on F840 cluster; Netapp version 6.2.2. We have been also told that as of this year each student will keep their account for life, therefore this number will keep on growing. I'm very concern about the number of inodes/files/volume and the filer performance. From all the information I could find some of you said that you get about o one inode for every 32 K o can be increased to as much as 1 inode for every 4 K (maxfiles) There was also some discussion that when you do this, the internal WAFL tables become so huge that it will impact performance. 32 million / 50 K users gives me only about 650 files; this is clearly not enough. Will someone having gone thru this type of a conversion give me some pointers of what to do and what not to do ??? Thanks, George ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- George Kahler e-mail: george(a)yorku.ca Sr. Systems Administrator humans: (416) 736-2100 x.22699 Computing and Network Services machines: (416) 736-5830 Ontario, Canada, M3J-1P3

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RE: iSCSI Buzz
by Alan McLachlan 28 Feb '03

28 Feb '03

hmmmm.... I guess so... The value add of SME is high for environments with very large Exchange databases and/or a very large number of mailboxes. If it's only a small Exchange DB and your issue is that you don't want it on a simple local disk, then just getting the iSCSI NIC and configuring a virtual disk on your existing filer is acceptable, and is supportable by Microsoft since it's "local" storage. But you will have to treat backup and restore options in the same manner as a simple local disk. I agree that the price of SME is far to high for small-to-mid size Exchange environments. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Evans [mailto:sevans@foundation.sdsu.edu] Sent: Friday, 28 February 2003 5:05 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: iSCSI Buzz So what your saying is SME gives you Exchange snapshots. If you don't care about taking snapshots of your Exchange database then it doesn't matter. Steve Evans SDSU Foundation (619) 594-0653 -----Original Message----- From: Alan McLachlan [mailto:amclachlan@asi.com.au] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:42 PM To: Jeff Burton; Steve Evans Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Steve, iSCSI is NOT a "replacement" for SnapManager for Exchange. iSCSI will let you treat a file on a filer as a block device. There ends its usefulness. In other words, without host-side tools like SnapDrive or SnapManager you aren't any better off than with a dumb local block device (except that writes will be nice and fast due to block indirection). There are three levels of data consistency: 1. Block level - this means that a physical block reported to have been written to disk has or will make it there intact. This is your typical DAS or SAN-level consistency. 2. Filesystem level - this means that all the blocks required for a consistent point-in-time image have been written successfully when the filesystem manger considers this to have been done. SnapDrive is NetApp's volume management plug-in for VLD, iSCSI and FCP "block" devices that manages this on a Windows host where that host is managing a NTFS volume laid down on the virtual block device. What happens is: you tell SnapDrive on the server to take a snapshot - it then tells the windows NTFS filesystem manager not to accept any more file I/O requests and to complete any outstanding I/O (flush writes) - then and only then does it tell the NetApp to take a WAFL-level snapshot of the volume hosting the virtual disk. It then tells the NTFS filesystem manager on the server that it can start processing requests again. If you simply took a NetApp level snapshot of the volume holding the virtual disk, then the image of the virtual disk could internally be in an inconsistent state, similar to a dirty shutdown of the Windows server. 3. Application level - this means that all of the file I/O OR block I/O operations required to keep an applications data files consistent from an application perspective (bearing in mind that the application will be managing outstanding operations in RAM) are completed at the times when the application expects, such as when you shut the application down or when you send a request through it's backup API to backup or restore it's data. Raw iSCSI gives you level 1 consistency only. There is no facility for taking consistent point in time snapshots that you can use for online backups. You can use filer level snapshots if you like, but there's arisk that you won't be able to mount the snapshotted volume without some corruption. SnapDrive gives you level 2 consistency. This is better and works will with databases that have a hot backup mode, like Oracle, or where you don't mind halting the database for a few seconds so that you don't have to deal with log files. To use this with Exchange you still have to manually manger restores with integrity checks etc. SnapManager provides Exchange-specific functions through the Exchange backup API to allow you to use snapshots to manage online backups etc. This gives you level 3 consistency for your Exchange backups as well as super fast restores from snapshots etc. iSCSI is good, but using it by itself is like taking the VLD component of SnapDrive or SnapManager without the rest. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Burton [mailto:burtonj@pprd.abbott.com] Sent: Friday, 28 February 2003 8:57 AM To: Steve Evans Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: iSCSI Buzz On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 10:12:44AM -0800, Steve Evans wrote: > I've been listening to all the iSCSI buzz with NetApp in the news. > From what I've gathered all you need is OnTAP 6.4 and a $700 adapter > for the host server. > > What are people planning on doing with this. I would like to use it > with Exchange 2000 and not purchase the SnapManager for Exchange > option (at $20,000). > > Steve Evans > SDSU Foundation > (619) 594-0653 Per: http://now.netapp.com/NOW/products/iSCSI/ you also need a license for iSCSI, but it sounds like it's free as long as your filer's software support agreement is active. I was surprised to find the license free, so I may be missing something. We do not have any plans to use iSCSI anywhere in our environment anytime soon. I seem to remember Gartner Group stating that iSCSI will not become popular until late 2004 or later. -- ______________________________________________________________ Jeff Burton Storage Architect Abbott Laboratories EMAIL: Jeffrey.Burton(a)Abbott.com Dept. GB16/Bldg. AP9A-LL PHONE: 847-935-5778 100 Abbott Park Rd. FAX: 847-935-0142 Abbott Park, IL 60064-6115 **** ASI Solutions Disclaimer **** The material transmitted may contain confidential and/or privileged material and is intended only for the addressee. If you receive this in error, please notify the sender and destroy any copies of the material immediately. ASI will protect your Privacy according to the 10 Privacy Principles outlined under the new Privacy Act, Dec 2001. This email is also subject to copyright. Any use of or reliance upon this material by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. E-mails may be interfered with, may contain computer viruses or other defects. Under no circumstances do we accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments. **** END OF MESSAGE **** **** ASI Solutions Disclaimer **** The material transmitted may contain confidential and/or privileged material and is intended only for the addressee. If you receive this in error, please notify the sender and destroy any copies of the material immediately. ASI will protect your Privacy according to the 10 Privacy Principles outlined under the new Privacy Act, Dec 2001. This email is also subject to copyright. Any use of or reliance upon this material by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. E-mails may be interfered with, may contain computer viruses or other defects. Under no circumstances do we accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments. **** END OF MESSAGE ****

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RE: iSCSI Buzz
by Steve Evans 28 Feb '03

28 Feb '03

So what your saying is SME gives you Exchange snapshots. If you don't care about taking snapshots of your Exchange database then it doesn't matter. Steve Evans SDSU Foundation (619) 594-0653 -----Original Message----- From: Alan McLachlan [mailto:amclachlan@asi.com.au] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:42 PM To: Jeff Burton; Steve Evans Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Steve, iSCSI is NOT a "replacement" for SnapManager for Exchange. iSCSI will let you treat a file on a filer as a block device. There ends its usefulness. In other words, without host-side tools like SnapDrive or SnapManager you aren't any better off than with a dumb local block device (except that writes will be nice and fast due to block indirection). There are three levels of data consistency: 1. Block level - this means that a physical block reported to have been written to disk has or will make it there intact. This is your typical DAS or SAN-level consistency. 2. Filesystem level - this means that all the blocks required for a consistent point-in-time image have been written successfully when the filesystem manger considers this to have been done. SnapDrive is NetApp's volume management plug-in for VLD, iSCSI and FCP "block" devices that manages this on a Windows host where that host is managing a NTFS volume laid down on the virtual block device. What happens is: you tell SnapDrive on the server to take a snapshot - it then tells the windows NTFS filesystem manager not to accept any more file I/O requests and to complete any outstanding I/O (flush writes) - then and only then does it tell the NetApp to take a WAFL-level snapshot of the volume hosting the virtual disk. It then tells the NTFS filesystem manager on the server that it can start processing requests again. If you simply took a NetApp level snapshot of the volume holding the virtual disk, then the image of the virtual disk could internally be in an inconsistent state, similar to a dirty shutdown of the Windows server. 3. Application level - this means that all of the file I/O OR block I/O operations required to keep an applications data files consistent from an application perspective (bearing in mind that the application will be managing outstanding operations in RAM) are completed at the times when the application expects, such as when you shut the application down or when you send a request through it's backup API to backup or restore it's data. Raw iSCSI gives you level 1 consistency only. There is no facility for taking consistent point in time snapshots that you can use for online backups. You can use filer level snapshots if you like, but there's arisk that you won't be able to mount the snapshotted volume without some corruption. SnapDrive gives you level 2 consistency. This is better and works will with databases that have a hot backup mode, like Oracle, or where you don't mind halting the database for a few seconds so that you don't have to deal with log files. To use this with Exchange you still have to manually manger restores with integrity checks etc. SnapManager provides Exchange-specific functions through the Exchange backup API to allow you to use snapshots to manage online backups etc. This gives you level 3 consistency for your Exchange backups as well as super fast restores from snapshots etc. iSCSI is good, but using it by itself is like taking the VLD component of SnapDrive or SnapManager without the rest. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Burton [mailto:burtonj@pprd.abbott.com] Sent: Friday, 28 February 2003 8:57 AM To: Steve Evans Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: iSCSI Buzz On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 10:12:44AM -0800, Steve Evans wrote: > I've been listening to all the iSCSI buzz with NetApp in the news. > From what I've gathered all you need is OnTAP 6.4 and a $700 adapter > for the host server. > > What are people planning on doing with this. I would like to use it > with Exchange 2000 and not purchase the SnapManager for Exchange > option (at $20,000). > > Steve Evans > SDSU Foundation > (619) 594-0653 Per: http://now.netapp.com/NOW/products/iSCSI/ you also need a license for iSCSI, but it sounds like it's free as long as your filer's software support agreement is active. I was surprised to find the license free, so I may be missing something. We do not have any plans to use iSCSI anywhere in our environment anytime soon. I seem to remember Gartner Group stating that iSCSI will not become popular until late 2004 or later. -- ______________________________________________________________ Jeff Burton Storage Architect Abbott Laboratories EMAIL: Jeffrey.Burton(a)Abbott.com Dept. GB16/Bldg. AP9A-LL PHONE: 847-935-5778 100 Abbott Park Rd. FAX: 847-935-0142 Abbott Park, IL 60064-6115 **** ASI Solutions Disclaimer **** The material transmitted may contain confidential and/or privileged material and is intended only for the addressee. If you receive this in error, please notify the sender and destroy any copies of the material immediately. ASI will protect your Privacy according to the 10 Privacy Principles outlined under the new Privacy Act, Dec 2001. This email is also subject to copyright. Any use of or reliance upon this material by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. E-mails may be interfered with, may contain computer viruses or other defects. Under no circumstances do we accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments. **** END OF MESSAGE ****

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