toasters

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13522 discussions

CIFS Security
by Robert Borowicz 10 Mar '03

10 Mar '03

Newbie here.... I'm setting up a FAS940 with NFS/CIFS. Is there a way to limit the hosts to which CIFS can be shared. Ala NFS "access=hostname.com" ? Thanks -Bob B

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RE: Network Appliance's used equipment policies
by Warmenhoven, Dan 09 Mar '03

09 Mar '03

Scott, I must disagree with your claims. Our used equipment policy is clearly documented, and is not as you stated. I suggest you read it at: http://www.netapp.com/support/ues.html Dan Warmenhoven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Warmenhoven dan(a)netapp.com Chief Executive Officer phone: 408-822-6600 Network Appliance, Inc. fax: 408-822-6603 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: ScottUCE(a)aol.com [mailto:ScottUCE@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 2:47 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: scott(a)unioncomputer.com Subject: Network Appliance's used equipment policies An active secondary market is developing for NetApp systems, parts, add-ons and maintenance. This market is enabling NetApp users to save money on current products as well as to secure out-of-production features, parts and add-ons that are no longer available from Network Appliance. Unfortunately -- and with increasing frequency -- we are hearing of NetApp sales reps making false statements about NetApp's used equipment policies. Examples are: 1) "The installation of used NetApp add-ons will void your filer's maintenance service agreement" 2) "If you buy used NetApp add-ons, you will be required to pay NetApp's recertification fee, even if you elect not to place these add-ons under your existing NetApp service contract" 3) "Used NetApp gear can only be purchased from "authorized" NetApp dealers" 4) "3rd party maintenance coverage is not allowed, as it will void your filer's software license agreement" 5) "Allowing hardware or software coverage to lapse will void your filer's software license agreement" 6) "NetApp has never negotiated transferable protocol licenses on new filer purchases." Should you ever be confronted with claims such as these, you might want to ask your NetApp rep to put them in writing ;-) Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 email: scott(a)unioncomputer.com phone: 952 935 7282 | fax: 952 935 5056 "Helping our customers make each dollar go further -- since 1991!" www.unioncomputer.com

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RE: SnapMirror delays.
by Ngoh, Clarence 09 Mar '03

09 Mar '03

Rich I'm aware of the snapmirror status -l option and by using it brought to my attention the size of the data that was being transferred. I've also used the SnapMirror log parser to get a better idea of the file transfer size, the duration, and the approximate transfer speed. Please find the output attached. Filer_A_SVR:filer_A => filer_dr_SVR:filer_A (Scheduled) transfer is completed. Start: Thu Mar 6 17:00:00 EST End: Fri Mar 7 05:38:01 EST Duration: 12:38:01 Transfer Size: (16472748 KB) Transfer rate: 21.222 MB/min Note that the snapmirror for this transfer was taken between the March 6 05:25 and March 06:11:09. This is how I concluded that it is betweent this two periods that 16GB of data was altered (at block level). Thanks for the clarification of the block level change, Rich. 1% ( 0%) 1% ( 0%) Mar 06 11:09 filer_dr_SVR(0050385229)_filer_a.741 (busy,snapmirror) 1% ( 0%) 1% ( 0%) Mar 06 10:00 hourly.3 (busy) 1% ( 0%) 1% ( 0%) Mar 06 08:00 hourly.4 (busy) 1% ( 0%) 1% ( 0%) Mar 06 06:00 hourly.5 (busy) 1% ( 0%) 1% ( 0%) Mar 06 05:25 filer_dr_SVR(0050385229)_filer_a.740 (busy,snapmirror) To clarify the set up of our filers, we have three volumes, vol0, vol1, and vol2. Vol 1 and 2 contain qtrees. The different qtrees are for the different business groups. Now having said that the changes are most likely done at the block level, is there a utility that can tell us which qtree is making this whole lot of data change? Thanks. -- Clarence. > -----Original Message----- > From: Borders, Rich [mailto:Rich.Borders@netapp.com] > Sent: Friday, 7 March 2003 09:17 PM > To: Ngoh, Clarence; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: SnapMirror delays. > > > Have you tried the command line version < snapmirror status -l > for > extended output. It may be a little more helpful. It seems you are > checking status, and I am looking a little more for the 'actual' data > moving. Good SM Link: > http://now.netapp.com/AskNOW/highlight_html.jsp?url=http%3A%2F > %2Fnow.net > app.com%2FNOW%2Fknowledge%2Fdocs%2Fontap%2Frel631r1%2Fhtml%2Fo > ntap%2Fdpg > %2Fmirror19.htm&sentenceId=60257568&titleIds=60257567%2C602575 > 66%2C60257 > 562#1548676 > > The actual data moving is block level, so there really is not a true > concept of 'files' If you have a DB in the snap destination that is > moving only changed blocks IN the DB then you are not really moving a > file. Just block updates IN the file. > > You may be aware of this, so maybe you could be more specific in your > question. Also, just for more info, is this QSM, or volume level? > > Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ngoh, Clarence [mailto:clarence.ngoh@cba.com.au] > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:04 PM > > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > > > Hi folks > > > > I am having some difficulties tracking down a particular user > > or qtree that is causing delays on our SnapMirror process. > > The most relevant information of our setup are this: > > > > Filer head : FAS940 > > OS: DOT 6.3.1 > > Filername : Let's call it "FilerA" > > OS to troubleshoot from : Windows, but open sourced solutions > > welcomed. > > > > Filer A contains several different qtrees with different > > business units. > > Every so often, the snapshots are SnapMirrored to our DR > > site. Of late, we noticed that FilerA is lagging behind the > > DR site by a fair amount of time > > -- 16 hours. The amount of data transferred for this period > > is around 15 GB. > > > > Please do not offer solutions regarding network latency, as > > the amount of data change is the cause of the lag. > > > > I would like to trace the particular user or qtree that is > > making this changes. We are using DFM 2.1 for W2K server. > > DFM did not register data deletions or additions for any > > business unit -- I suspect then that data changes are the > > culprits, but where is this coming from? > > > > > > Cheers > > Clarence. > > > > > > ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** > > This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and > > contains information which may be confidential. If you are > > not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return > > email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the > > message and any attachments from your system. Unless > > specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal > > advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank > > of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. > > ************************************************** > > > > >

1 0

Network Appliance's used equipment policies
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 09 Mar '03

09 Mar '03

An active secondary market is developing for NetApp systems, parts, add-ons and maintenance. This market is enabling NetApp users to save money on current products as well as to secure out-of-production features, parts and add-ons that are no longer available from Network Appliance. Unfortunately -- and with increasing frequency -- we are hearing of NetApp sales reps making false statements about NetApp's used equipment policies. Examples are: 1) "The installation of used NetApp add-ons will void your filer's maintenance service agreement" 2) "If you buy used NetApp add-ons, you will be required to pay NetApp's recertification fee, even if you elect not to place these add-ons under your existing NetApp service contract" 3) "Used NetApp gear can only be purchased from "authorized" NetApp dealers" 4) "3rd party maintenance coverage is not allowed, as it will void your filer's software license agreement" 5) "Allowing hardware or software coverage to lapse will void your filer's software license agreement" 6) "NetApp has never negotiated transferable protocol licenses on new filer purchases." Should you ever be confronted with claims such as these, you might want to ask your NetApp rep to put them in writing ;-) Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 email: scott(a)unioncomputer.com phone: 952 935 7282 | fax: 952 935 5056 "Helping our customers make each dollar go further -- since 1991!" www.unioncomputer.com

1 0

RE: Snapmirror throughput question
by Hill, Aaron 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

At this stage I do not think this is a snapmirror issue. There are a lot of people out there successfully doing transfers over higher latency links than the 20Mbit I have. I was unintentionally misleading with the "ftp between filers" statement. The transfer was actually between 2 unix hosts that had directories mounted on the filers. So there are differences in the way the tcp traffic will be handled. It does establish that the network setup we currently have CAN be saturated. However, it does not establish that we have it setup optimally for the snapmirror we are trying to do. After talking with some very good NetApp engineers, we decided to do a more specific test limited to filer-filer communication by doing; 1) A snapmirror on the same network segment to an R100. This is underway now using exactly the same volumes as I have mentioned. 2) An NDMPcopy directly to the DR/target filer. This will need to wait unitl a "quiet" time on the WAN so I can hog it and not affect the already slow snapmirror. The results of these should be able to help us further define whether snapmirror is the issue or not. A tool suggested by another toasters member is pchar. I am very keen to put it on my network between sites and see what it spits out. Just don't feel like working all weekend!! Thanks, Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Todd C. Merrill [mailto:tmerrill@mathworks.com] Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 7:18 AM To: Hill, Aaron Subject: Re: Snapmirror throughput question On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Hill, Aaron wrote: > 6) ftp transfers have been tested between filers and these saturate > the 20Mbit immediately How do you do this, ftp directly between filers? The fact that *this* filer-to-filer communication saturates the link seems to be quite damning to snapmirror... Until next time... The MathWorks, Inc. 508-647-7000 x7792 3 Apple Hill Drive, Natick, MA 01760-2098 508-647-7001 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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RE: Snapmirror throughput question
by Hill, Aaron 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

Hey, thanks for the info. Here is the network path; Source Filer GigE ----- GigE on 4006 Cisco switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 3660 Router 100/FastE ==== 20M VLAN ==== 100/FastE 3600 Router 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 2924 Cisco Switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE Target Filer The VLAN carrier, UECOMM tells us no traffic shaping on the VLAN given to us. Our network team has no traffic shaping on the 3660 nor the 3600. See anything else in there causing an issue? Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Michael van Elst [mailto:mlelstv@serpens.de] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:44 AM To: Hill, Aaron Subject: Re: Snapmirror throughput question On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 04:40:11PM -0600, Hill, Aaron wrote: > Hi people, > What are the maximum data throughputs that Snapmirroring people are seeing > across a WAN? Is anyone seeing 15-20+ Mbit bandwidth usage from a snapmirror > data stream? I had a setup with three F840 clusters mirroring to a single F840 cluster using a 100Mbps tunnel. During the initial full copy this saturated the tunnel, the subsequent incremental updates were on a much lower level (4-8Mbps), because there weren't that many changes to the data. When I paused the mirror for a while and then resumed it, the then much bigger update again saturated the tunnel. The filers all had GigE and for the tunnel a dedicated GigE each, so that snapmirror traffic didn't compete with regular accesses. The filers were connected to Catalyst6509s that had a 100TX link to the tunnel routers. I am a bit confused what the "dedicated 20Mbit Ethernet link" of yours is exactly. If that's some kind of allocated bandwidth or subject to traffic shaping, it could easily explain the bad utilization. Greetings, -- Michael van Elst Internet: mlelstv(a)serpens.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."

3 2

RE: Snapmirror throughput question
by Borders, Rich 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

Hi guys, I am replying in-line ... > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael van Elst [mailto:mlelstv@serpens.de] > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 8:48 PM > To: Hill, Aaron > Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > > On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 06:31:18PM -0600, Hill, Aaron wrote: > > Hey, thanks for the info. > > > > Here is the network path; > > > > Source Filer GigE ----- GigE on 4006 Cisco switch 100/FastE ---- > > 100/FastE 3660 Router 100/FastE ==== 20M VLAN ==== 100/FastE 3600 > > Router 100/FastE > > ---- 100/FastE 2924 Cisco Switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE > Target Filer I see a pair of 3660's in the middle. Are they one of the first ones you had? They are fast and they are 'divisional' class routers. They can operate HSSI interfaces up to DS3 speeds effectively, but take a look at the processing of them. What is the cpu utilization. You are most likely using the FA0/0 and FA 0/1, but just asking. Are you doing any routing protocols, ect? I am digging so please bear with me. I am pointing out potential issues. Also make sure you have the full version IOS on these routers. When I got my first pair, I was doing DS3's to a web site, and I got a pre-release of the cisco IOS on there. Just something to check. We did upgrade, because of a bug. ( harware related ) Look at the couters on the int's for ANY errors. If you packets are seeing any issues, then you will see it there. Also, at 20 megabit, you will see about 1.6 megabytes MAX theoretical. Are you ever seeing that anywhere? FTP, makefiles ect.? Try to establish the baseline. I saw you say you got it from ftp, but that speed? Just curious. > > The VLAN carrier, UECOMM tells us no traffic shaping on the > VLAN given > > to us. I have seen AT&T do this here in the US. You can get good speeds, but it is burst. > > Our network team has no traffic shaping on the 3660 nor the 3600. > > > > See anything else in there causing an issue? Not off hand. Anything else happening on the WAN when you are doing this? Are you getting dedicate CIR rates from the carrier. Do you have any TSU's or DSU like terminaing devices. Check framing. I think that it is possible that the filer can POUND that link into a submissive state. That is not to say we shouldn't get max speeds, but snapmirror CAN be unrelenting. You need to try and harden the link, and packet shaping can help. The original request to turn on flow control is good if you have the option. This will aid the source and destination in any fragmentation or retrans type issues. Are you seeing any errors in the ifstat information. CRC, checksum errors, anything? > I would start looking at flow-control settings for the GigE > on the 4006 and also verify the MTU sizes on each interface > to rule out packet fragmentation. Sounds good. > But I still suspect the 20Mbps bandwidth limit to have a > significant effect. To make this more visible you could > enable traffic shaping on your routers with a slightly smaller limit. This will keep you from crippling the link. Snapmirror was designed with campus speeds in mind. The throttle came when wan and DR was introduced. If you can throttle to 1.7 megabit, the you will see a possible performance increase. Sort of like stopping a potential 'downward spiral'. > -- > Michael van Elst > Internet: mlelstv(a)serpens.de > "A potential Snark may lurk > in every tree." Rich B

1 0

RE: SnapMirror delays.
by Borders, Rich 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

Have you tried the command line version < snapmirror status -l > for extended output. It may be a little more helpful. It seems you are checking status, and I am looking a little more for the 'actual' data moving. Good SM Link: http://now.netapp.com/AskNOW/highlight_html.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnow.net app.com%2FNOW%2Fknowledge%2Fdocs%2Fontap%2Frel631r1%2Fhtml%2Fontap%2Fdpg %2Fmirror19.htm&sentenceId=60257568&titleIds=60257567%2C60257566%2C60257 562#1548676 The actual data moving is block level, so there really is not a true concept of 'files' If you have a DB in the snap destination that is moving only changed blocks IN the DB then you are not really moving a file. Just block updates IN the file. You may be aware of this, so maybe you could be more specific in your question. Also, just for more info, is this QSM, or volume level? Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: Ngoh, Clarence [mailto:clarence.ngoh@cba.com.au] > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:04 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Hi folks > > I am having some difficulties tracking down a particular user > or qtree that is causing delays on our SnapMirror process. > The most relevant information of our setup are this: > > Filer head : FAS940 > OS: DOT 6.3.1 > Filername : Let's call it "FilerA" > OS to troubleshoot from : Windows, but open sourced solutions > welcomed. > > Filer A contains several different qtrees with different > business units. > Every so often, the snapshots are SnapMirrored to our DR > site. Of late, we noticed that FilerA is lagging behind the > DR site by a fair amount of time > -- 16 hours. The amount of data transferred for this period > is around 15 GB. > > Please do not offer solutions regarding network latency, as > the amount of data change is the cause of the lag. > > I would like to trace the particular user or qtree that is > making this changes. We are using DFM 2.1 for W2K server. > DFM did not register data deletions or additions for any > business unit -- I suspect then that data changes are the > culprits, but where is this coming from? > > > Cheers > Clarence. > > > ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** > This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and > contains information which may be confidential. If you are > not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return > email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the > message and any attachments from your system. Unless > specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal > advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank > of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. > ************************************************** > >

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RE: Snapmirror throughput question
by Hill, Aaron 06 Mar '03

06 Mar '03

The VLAN is over a UECOMM Fibre Metropolitan Area Network. I really am not sure exactly what carrier equipment is on that loop. I am guessing fibre switches. As far as I can tell, all they do is give us a VLAN with bandwidth throttled to whatever we pay for. For example, for our initial transfers we have had them ramp it up to 100Mbit for 24 hours. Thanks, Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:28 PM To: Hill, Aaron; 'Michael van Elst' Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Snapmirror throughput question This Vlan, is it delivered over ATM? -----Original Message----- From: Hill, Aaron [mailto:aaron.hill@navitaire.com] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:31 PM To: 'Michael van Elst' Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Snapmirror throughput question Hey, thanks for the info. Here is the network path; Source Filer GigE ----- GigE on 4006 Cisco switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 3660 Router 100/FastE ==== 20M VLAN ==== 100/FastE 3600 Router 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 2924 Cisco Switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE Target Filer The VLAN carrier, UECOMM tells us no traffic shaping on the VLAN given to us. Our network team has no traffic shaping on the 3660 nor the 3600. See anything else in there causing an issue? Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Michael van Elst [mailto:mlelstv@serpens.de] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:44 AM To: Hill, Aaron Subject: Re: Snapmirror throughput question On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 04:40:11PM -0600, Hill, Aaron wrote: > Hi people, > What are the maximum data throughputs that Snapmirroring people are seeing > across a WAN? Is anyone seeing 15-20+ Mbit bandwidth usage from a snapmirror > data stream? I had a setup with three F840 clusters mirroring to a single F840 cluster using a 100Mbps tunnel. During the initial full copy this saturated the tunnel, the subsequent incremental updates were on a much lower level (4-8Mbps), because there weren't that many changes to the data. When I paused the mirror for a while and then resumed it, the then much bigger update again saturated the tunnel. The filers all had GigE and for the tunnel a dedicated GigE each, so that snapmirror traffic didn't compete with regular accesses. The filers were connected to Catalyst6509s that had a 100TX link to the tunnel routers. I am a bit confused what the "dedicated 20Mbit Ethernet link" of yours is exactly. If that's some kind of allocated bandwidth or subject to traffic shaping, it could easily explain the bad utilization. Greetings, -- Michael van Elst Internet: mlelstv(a)serpens.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."

1 0

RE: Snapmirror throughput question
by Mohler, Jeff 06 Mar '03

06 Mar '03

This Vlan, is it delivered over ATM? -----Original Message----- From: Hill, Aaron [mailto:aaron.hill@navitaire.com <mailto:aaron.hill@navitaire.com> ] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:31 PM To: 'Michael van Elst' Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Snapmirror throughput question Hey, thanks for the info. Here is the network path; Source Filer GigE ----- GigE on 4006 Cisco switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 3660 Router 100/FastE ==== 20M VLAN ==== 100/FastE 3600 Router 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 2924 Cisco Switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE Target Filer The VLAN carrier, UECOMM tells us no traffic shaping on the VLAN given to us. Our network team has no traffic shaping on the 3660 nor the 3600. See anything else in there causing an issue? Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Michael van Elst [mailto:mlelstv@serpens.de <mailto:mlelstv@serpens.de> ] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:44 AM To: Hill, Aaron Subject: Re: Snapmirror throughput question On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 04:40:11PM -0600, Hill, Aaron wrote: > Hi people, > What are the maximum data throughputs that Snapmirroring people are seeing > across a WAN? Is anyone seeing 15-20+ Mbit bandwidth usage from a snapmirror > data stream? I had a setup with three F840 clusters mirroring to a single F840 cluster using a 100Mbps tunnel. During the initial full copy this saturated the tunnel, the subsequent incremental updates were on a much lower level (4-8Mbps), because there weren't that many changes to the data. When I paused the mirror for a while and then resumed it, the then much bigger update again saturated the tunnel. The filers all had GigE and for the tunnel a dedicated GigE each, so that snapmirror traffic didn't compete with regular accesses. The filers were connected to Catalyst6509s that had a 100TX link to the tunnel routers. I am a bit confused what the "dedicated 20Mbit Ethernet link" of yours is exactly. If that's some kind of allocated bandwidth or subject to traffic shaping, it could easily explain the bad utilization. Greetings, -- Michael van Elst Internet: mlelstv(a)serpens.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."

1 0

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