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RE: RAID Group Size Limits?
by Hill, Aaron 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

You are absolutely correct. I read it from the 6.5 release guide and translated into my email in reverse. 28 with DP 14 without -----Original Message----- From: Michael Christian [mailto:mchristi@yahoo-inc.com] Sent: Friday, 2 July 2004 10:44 AM To: Hill, Aaron; James Brigman; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: RAID Group Size Limits? Why would DP cut your max raidsize in half? If anything, it should increase it, though I doubt Netapp allows it. Here's a quiz for everyone: Q: You have a fully loaded R200, 96TB, 24 shelves, 336 disks. You use a 2 disk root vol and want no more than 2 hot spares in the system. What raidsize do you use, so as not to end up with an inordinate number of spares? -----Original Message----- From: Hill, Aaron [mailto:aaron.hill@cba.com.au] Sent: Wed Jun 30 17:41:38 2004 To: 'James Brigman'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: RAID Group Size Limits? The absolute limit will depend on both your platform (FAS900 series, FAS250, R100, R150, R200 or F series) and ONTAP Version. Check the ONTAP release manual for your version. For example, 6.5 supports max of 28 for FAS900 & F series filers. I think this has been the same for quite a few releases. RAID DP cuts that in half. Seems you have two goals; 1) Consolidate exisiting volumes into fewer, larger volumes 2) Get some performance increase by increasing spindles You can make your volumes & raid groups larger and thus get more spindles. However, there are two questions you need to answer first; 1) Are you sure that disk I/O is the bottleneck in your DB performance? i.e. Run a statit analysis on your filer for some high and low usage periods over the next few days and examine the results. 2) How important is volume restore time? Remember, the larger the volume, the longer it will take to restore if there is a double-disk failure. (Of course, you can always mitigate some of the risk here by upgrading to 6.5.1 and using RAID DP, however this limits you to max raid size of 14). I believe NetApp recommends to keep volumes under 0.5? TB for this very reason. Now, if (1) is true and (2) is not so important, you still have one more thing to keep in mind; Increasing spindles follows the law of diminishing returns. I recall reading somewhere that the optimum raid size for performance was 10-14, anything larger than that and the performance return is exceedingly small. At one place we ran Sybase DB's on 36G disks with RAID sizes of 10 & 12 with good results. Although there are a lot of other factors that come into play with DB performance. Ok, that should be enough information to help you make some preliminary judgements. Let me know how you go. Aaron _____ From: James Brigman [mailto:jbrigman@nc.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, 1 July 2004 9:06 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RAID Group Size Limits? Does anyone on the list have experience with RAID group size limits? I seek to convert my qty 5 small volumes for Oracle into qty 2 volumes (one big, one little) for oracle and use lots of spindles. In fact, I'd like to just do a big, giant volume on my filer and put everything in qtrees shared/exported. Anyone out there done this yet? Hit any RAID size limits? Thx; JKB ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: www.commbank.com.au **************************************************

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automate netcache cli commands
by Kerry Herschel 01 Jul '04

01 Jul '04

Hi, I would like to script some netcache cli commands like ejecting objects on a regular basis. Is it possible to do this with SecureAdmin? I know with Data OnTap I would do this with rsh but rsh doesn't appear to work the same on NetCache. Thanks, Kerry ================================================================ Margaret.K.Herschel(a)jpl.nasa.gov JPL Information Services Jet Propulsion Laboratory Phone 818.354.1111 DISCLAIMER: The personal and professional opinions presented herein are my own and do not, in any way, represent the opinion or policy of JPL.

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AW: Raid DP conversion?
by Engmann, Tobias 01 Jul '04

01 Jul '04

Correction the raidgroupsize setting will change but if you have already multiple raid groups THIS will not be change -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Engmann, Tobias Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2004 19:27 An: 'Brubaker, Paul' Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: AW: Raid DP conversion? Just set the raidlevel from raid4 to raid dp vol options "volname" raidtype dp the filer will grap a spare and do a reconstruct on it the Raidgroupsize will NOT change ! cheers tobias -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Brubaker, Paul [mailto:paul.brubaker@attws.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2004 18:48 An: toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: Raid DP conversion? Question on Raid 4 vs. Raid DP. We just upgraded to Ontap 6.5.1 and the new feature of Raid DP is now present. Our existing volumes created on Ontap 6.4.2 are setup as Raid 4. Is there any "easy" conversion process to change the old Raid 4 volumes to the newer Raid DP config? Any benefits? Advice? Best practices? thanks! Paul M. Brubaker, Jr. RIDS - Intel System Support AT&T Wireless - Harrisburg PA e-mail: paul.brubaker(a)attws.com office #: 717-526-5011 cell #: 717-578-2254

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Raid DP conversion?
by Brubaker, Paul 01 Jul '04

01 Jul '04

Question on Raid 4 vs. Raid DP. We just upgraded to Ontap 6.5.1 and the new feature of Raid DP is now present. Our existing volumes created on Ontap 6.4.2 are setup as Raid 4. Is there any "easy" conversion process to change the old Raid 4 volumes to the newer Raid DP config? Any benefits? Advice? Best practices? thanks! Paul M. Brubaker, Jr. RIDS - Intel System Support AT&T Wireless - Harrisburg PA e-mail: paul.brubaker(a)attws.com office #: 717-526-5011 cell #: 717-578-2254

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RE: RAID Group Size Limits?
by Michael Christian 01 Jul '04

01 Jul '04

I believe there is still a limit of 24 with DP. Not positive though. _____ From: Ehrhart, Rick [mailto:Rick.Ehrhart@netapp.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 5:00 PM To: Michael Christian; James Brigman; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: RAID Group Size Limits? Don't forget there is double parity RAID on 6.5 and later. - Rick - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Christian [mailto:mchristi@yahoo-inc.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:38 PM To: James Brigman; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: RAID Group Size Limits? Sure, just keep your raid group size at a reasonable level, to avoid double disk failures, and use multiple raid groups. I had a semi-large volume running RAC for about a year which had 6 groups of 12, so 72 spindles in the volume. (I certainly wouldn't use a raid group of 72 though!) -MC _____ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of James Brigman Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:06 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RAID Group Size Limits? Does anyone on the list have experience with RAID group size limits? I seek to convert my qty 5 small volumes for Oracle into qty 2 volumes (one big, one little) for oracle and use lots of spindles. In fact, I'd like to just do a big, giant volume on my filer and put everything in qtrees shared/exported. Anyone out there done this yet? Hit any RAID size limits? Thx; JKB

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RE: RAID Group Size Limits?
by Ehrhart, Rick 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Don't forget there is double parity RAID on 6.5 and later. - Rick - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Christian [mailto:mchristi@yahoo-inc.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:38 PM To: James Brigman; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: RAID Group Size Limits? Sure, just keep your raid group size at a reasonable level, to avoid double disk failures, and use multiple raid groups. I had a semi-large volume running RAC for about a year which had 6 groups of 12, so 72 spindles in the volume. (I certainly wouldn't use a raid group of 72 though!) -MC _____ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of James Brigman Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:06 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RAID Group Size Limits? Does anyone on the list have experience with RAID group size limits? I seek to convert my qty 5 small volumes for Oracle into qty 2 volumes (one big, one little) for oracle and use lots of spindles. In fact, I'd like to just do a big, giant volume on my filer and put everything in qtrees shared/exported. Anyone out there done this yet? Hit any RAID size limits? Thx; JKB

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RE: RAID Group Size Limits?
by Hill, Aaron 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

The absolute limit will depend on both your platform (FAS900 series, FAS250, R100, R150, R200 or F series) and ONTAP Version. Check the ONTAP release manual for your version. For example, 6.5 supports max of 28 for FAS900 & F series filers. I think this has been the same for quite a few releases. RAID DP cuts that in half. Seems you have two goals; 1) Consolidate exisiting volumes into fewer, larger volumes 2) Get some performance increase by increasing spindles You can make your volumes & raid groups larger and thus get more spindles. However, there are two questions you need to answer first; 1) Are you sure that disk I/O is the bottleneck in your DB performance? i.e. Run a statit analysis on your filer for some high and low usage periods over the next few days and examine the results. 2) How important is volume restore time? Remember, the larger the volume, the longer it will take to restore if there is a double-disk failure. (Of course, you can always mitigate some of the risk here by upgrading to 6.5.1 and using RAID DP, however this limits you to max raid size of 14). I believe NetApp recommends to keep volumes under 0.5? TB for this very reason. Now, if (1) is true and (2) is not so important, you still have one more thing to keep in mind; Increasing spindles follows the law of diminishing returns. I recall reading somewhere that the optimum raid size for performance was 10-14, anything larger than that and the performance return is exceedingly small. At one place we ran Sybase DB's on 36G disks with RAID sizes of 10 & 12 with good results. Although there are a lot of other factors that come into play with DB performance. Ok, that should be enough information to help you make some preliminary judgements. Let me know how you go. Aaron _____ From: James Brigman [mailto:jbrigman@nc.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, 1 July 2004 9:06 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RAID Group Size Limits? Does anyone on the list have experience with RAID group size limits? I seek to convert my qty 5 small volumes for Oracle into qty 2 volumes (one big, one little) for oracle and use lots of spindles. In fact, I'd like to just do a big, giant volume on my filer and put everything in qtrees shared/exported. Anyone out there done this yet? Hit any RAID size limits? Thx; JKB ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: www.commbank.com.au **************************************************

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RE: RAID Group Size Limits?
by Michael Christian 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Sure, just keep your raid group size at a reasonable level, to avoid double disk failures, and use multiple raid groups. I had a semi-large volume running RAC for about a year which had 6 groups of 12, so 72 spindles in the volume. (I certainly wouldn't use a raid group of 72 though!) -MC _____ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of James Brigman Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:06 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RAID Group Size Limits? Does anyone on the list have experience with RAID group size limits? I seek to convert my qty 5 small volumes for Oracle into qty 2 volumes (one big, one little) for oracle and use lots of spindles. In fact, I'd like to just do a big, giant volume on my filer and put everything in qtrees shared/exported. Anyone out there done this yet? Hit any RAID size limits? Thx; JKB

1 0

AW: Raid DP conversion?
by Engmann, Tobias 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Just set the raidlevel from raid4 to raid dp vol options "volname" raidtype dp the filer will grap a spare and do a reconstruct on it the Raidgroupsize will NOT change ! cheers tobias -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Brubaker, Paul [mailto:paul.brubaker@attws.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2004 18:48 An: toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: Raid DP conversion? Question on Raid 4 vs. Raid DP. We just upgraded to Ontap 6.5.1 and the new feature of Raid DP is now present. Our existing volumes created on Ontap 6.4.2 are setup as Raid 4. Is there any "easy" conversion process to change the old Raid 4 volumes to the newer Raid DP config? Any benefits? Advice? Best practices? thanks! Paul M. Brubaker, Jr. RIDS - Intel System Support AT&T Wireless - Harrisburg PA e-mail: paul.brubaker(a)attws.com office #: 717-526-5011 cell #: 717-578-2254

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How do you migrate from Novell to Netapp?
by Mike Langas 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Greetings all, After a five year absence I find myself back in the NetApp world. I just convinced my employer to replace their aging novell servers with a netapp. Now the next logical question is how best to move the data? Does anyone know of a good way to migrate it all and keep ownership, permissions, etc... in place. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get the search facility for this list to work so I apologize if this question has been asked a million times before. Thanks for any help. Mike __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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