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FW: Backing up a filer
by [ISS] Veritas-Users 09 Feb '00

09 Feb '00

-----Original Message----- From: Kelly Wyatt Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 1:35 PM To: 'Steve Kappel' Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Backing up a filer Do you know what the impact on the filer is? Does the "media server filer" need to have extra CPU capacity or disk capacity? I asked the following of Grant Melvin of Network Appliance: This is one thing we are considering: Another plan is to have a storagetek with NDMP media servers... say we have the L700 with 20 tape drives, with OnTap 5.3 I can have 5 filers driving those 20 tape drives (two tape adapters per filer, two drives per tape adapter). These are now my "NDMP" media servers. The backups would go across a dedicated GB network. So, with NBU 3.2 I can do the filer to filer backups through these filer media servers, right? My question is: what impact is this operation on the filer -- both CPU/disk space needs, etc? What is the minimum filer I could use as these media servers -- little 720's with one shelf/minimal disk? or would this require a beefier filer? ------ Is anyone actually doing 3-way NDMP backups w/ NetBackup. We have been pleased with using NBU with NDMP and directly attached drives for our filers for about 18 months... but, we are about out of capacity in our two tape libraries. Most filers have two tape drives (which we prefer), so when we install the three filers we just received, we have hit our limit... and we have three more filers on order... So, we need to either get another tape library or come up with a solution that doesn't require an entire tape library for every 5 filers. Thanks for any input -- Kelly -- Kelly Wyatt, Kelly.Wyatt(a)SAS.com Systems Programmer Integrated Solutions Consulting SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 http://www.sas.com

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RE: Backing up a filer
by Kelly Wyatt 09 Feb '00

09 Feb '00

Do you know what the impact on the filer is? Does the "media server filer" need to have extra CPU capacity or disk capacity? I asked the following of Grant Melvin of Network Appliance: This is one thing we are considering: Another plan is to have a storagetek with NDMP media servers... say we have the L700 with 20 tape drives, with OnTap 5.3 I can have 5 filers driving those 20 tape drives (two tape adapters per filer, two drives per tape adapter). These are now my "NDMP" media servers. The backups would go across a dedicated GB network. So, with NBU 3.2 I can do the filer to filer backups through these filer media servers, right? My question is: what impact is this operation on the filer -- both CPU/disk space needs, etc? What is the minimum filer I could use as these media servers -- little 720's with one shelf/minimal disk? or would this require a beefier filer? ------ Is anyone actually doing 3-way NDMP backups w/ NetBackup. We have been pleased with using NBU with NDMP and directly attached drives for our filers for about 18 months... but, we are about out of capacity in our two tape libraries. Most filers have two tape drives (which we prefer), so when we install the three filers we just received, we have hit our limit... and we have three more filers on order... So, we need to either get another tape library or come up with a solution that doesn't require an entire tape library for every 5 filers. Thanks for any input -- Kelly -- Kelly Wyatt, Kelly.Wyatt(a)SAS.com Systems Programmer Integrated Solutions Consulting SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 http://www.sas.com

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RE: Backing up a filer
by [ISS] Veritas-Users 09 Feb '00

09 Feb '00

I understand that you can do NDMP dump across the network to a media server... it is even mentioned in technote 3066, section 4.3 (# 4 below): ---- The NDMP protocol specification allows the following backup configurations: 1. Local backup from a filer to a SCSI-attached tape device 2. Three-way backup from a filer via the network to another filer with a local tape device 3. Backup from a UNIX or Windows NT server via the network to a NetApp filer with a local tape device 4. Backup from a NetApp filer via the network to a UNIX or Windows NT backup server with a local tape device ---- We currently backup filers via dedicated directly attached tape drives (using Veritas NetBackup)... but, this is a costly solution because the tape drives are idle probably 75% of the time. We will be testing NDMP across a dedicated GB ethernet network in the near future. Even if we see some decrease in backup throughput, it will good if we can get those 20 dedicated DLT7000 tape drives in S'Tek 9710's doing more work for us... Is anyone already using a private network and NDMP to backup a filer? Kelly -- Kelly Wyatt, Kelly.Wyatt(a)SAS.com Systems Programmer Integrated Solutions Consulting SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 http://www.sas.com -----Original Message----- From: Roth, William [mailto:William.Roth@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:21 AM To: 'gwong(a)futureshop.com' Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Backing up a filer Greg, If you want to use NetBackup with NDMP to back up the filer, you need to have at least one direct attached tape drive connected to the filer(not considering a three way NDMP backup using two filers with a tape device direct connected to the remote filer). You can dedicate one or more drives from an existing library controlled by NetBackup, or you can attach a new/different library to the filer(yes, the filer does support a locally attached library). Either the NetBackup host (NDMP client) or the filer can be direct connected to the robotic portion of the library(assuming the library has individual scsi ports for the connection). In the end, NetBackup ends up controlling the library either way. If the robot is direct connected to the NetBackup host via scsi, NetBackup controls it. If the robot is connected to the filer via scsi, the NetBackup host sends scsi cdb's via NDMP to the robot through the filer, thus the robot is still controller by NetBackup. What other information or assistance do you require? Bill Roth Technical Marketing Engineer Network Appliance, Inc. 495 East Java Drive Sunnyvale, CA 94089 Telephone 408-822-3308 -----Original Message----- From: Greg Wong [mailto:gwong@futureshop.com] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:45 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Backing up a filer Hi all, I'm kind of new to the this filer business and I have a question about backing it up. We have an F720 on site that isn't doing much since we aren't backing it up. I need some options on how to do this. We currently back up our other systems vith Veritas Netbackup and a tape library. Now, my question(s) is if I want to use Veritas to back up the filer using NDMP, do I have to dedicate a drive on the remote tape library to the filer? Will the filer support a locally attached library, and if it does, does Veritas control the library or does the filer? Thanks for your help Greg

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FC SAN Tape Solution for Filers
by Alvarado, Michael 09 Feb '00

09 Feb '00

http://www.netapp.com/news/press/news_rel_20000202.html -----Original Message----- From: Mark D Fowle [mailto:Fowle_Mark_D@CAT.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:22 PM To: toasters Subject: Tape Drives Does anyone have Spectralogic 4000 (dat) with 4 drives, or Spectralogic 10000 (ait-2) with 2 drives or a Breece Hill (DLT 7000) with 2 drives .... attached to your filers ? Mark Fowle

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I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-nfsv4-05.txt (fwd)
by beepy＠netapp.com 09 Feb '00

09 Feb '00

Not really NetApp related - just NFS related. I meant to send this note out a long time ago. One thing the IETF would like is "user" review of Internet drafts. The working group is moving towards a Proposed Standard over the next few months, which includes review by a wider audience of the standard. You don't have to be an "IETF member" or attend "IETF mtgs" to review. If you're interested, take a look at the latest draft. It is the culmination of a lot of work originally by Sun in the form of a strawman proposal, and later one of our engineers, an engineer from HCL, Sun engineers to form the current specification. This one has been reviewed extensively by the far flung working group - mostly through the e-mail alias. Comments to the working group alias are best. Clarifications and questions to me if you like. beepy P.S. Hi everyone - I've been quiet a long time. ----- Forwarded message from Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org ----- >From Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org Wed Feb 9 08:45:42 2000 Message-Id: <200002091641.LAA09977(a)ietf.org> To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: nfsv4-wg(a)sunroof.eng.sun.com From: Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-nfsv4-05.txt Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:41:38 -0500 Sender: owner-dl-nfsv4-engr(a)netapp.com Precedence: bulk A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network File System Version 4 Working Group of the IETF. Title : NFS version 4 Protocol Author(s) : S. Shepler, C. Beame, B. Callaghan, M. Eisler, D. Noveck, D. Robinson, R. Thurlow Filename : draft-ietf-nfsv4-05.txt Pages : 249 Date : 08-Feb-00 NFS version 4 is a distributed file system protocol which owes heritage to NFS protocol versions 2 [RFC1094] and 3 [RFC1813]. Unlike earlier versions, the NFS version 4 protocol supports traditional file access while integrating support for file locking and the mount protocol. In addition, support for strong security (and its negotiation), compound operations, client caching, and internationalization have been added. Of course, attention has been applied to making NFS version 4 operate well in an Internet environment. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nfsv4-05.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-nfsv4-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv(a)ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nfsv4-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. [message/External-body is not supported, skipping...] ----- End of forwarded message from Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org -----

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RE: Backing up a filer
by Steve Kappel 09 Feb '00

09 Feb '00

NetBackup does not support backing up NDMP hosts to NetBackup media server tape drives. Since you have more than one filer, I would recommend selecting a subset to have locally attached drives (possibly part of a shared library). Then use 3-way NDMP to backup filers without drives. Note that 3-way is new in NBU 3.2. >From: Kelly Wyatt <Kelly.Wyatt(a)sas.com> >To: "'Roth, William'" <William.Roth(a)netapp.com>, "'gwong(a)futureshop.com'" <gwong(a)futureshop.com> >Cc: "'toasters(a)mathworks.com'" <toasters(a)mathworks.com> >Subject: RE: Backing up a filer >Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:16:10 -0500 > >Bummer... I just tried a backup from a filer to the master's locally attached drive and got an errro 154 -- storage unit characteristics mismatched to request. This is w/ NetBackup 3.1.1, and from reading my NBU 3.2 manuals, it does not look like this will work (because the sun is not an "NDMP host" and I have not seen in the doc how to make it one). > >Kelly > > >-- > >Kelly Wyatt, Kelly.Wyatt(a)SAS.com >Systems Programmer >Integrated Solutions Consulting >SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 >http://www.sas.com __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve.kappel(a)iname.com (Personal)

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RE: Backing up a filer
by Roth, William 09 Feb '00

09 Feb '00

Greg, The comments in my earlier email with regards to VERITAS NetBackup, NDMP and filers remains correct. Technote 3066 (#4 below) works as long as the NDMP compliant third party backup software supports it. VERITAS NetBackup does not currently (to the best of my knowledge) support performing an NDMP backup from a filer with data going to the Solaris or NT backup server with locally attached tape devices. Call me on 408-822-3308 if there are any questions, or you want to discuss this further. A recent Network Appliance press release details plans to address the idle tape drive issue. It is well understood that direct attached, dedicated tape devices sit idle most of the time. The release can be found at: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/000202/ca_multive_1.html I'm interested in the proposed NDMP backup testing with a dedicated GB ethernet network. What are the configuration details, when is testing scheduled to start? Thanks, Bill Roth -----Original Message----- From: [ISS] Veritas-Users [mailto:Veritas-Users@wnt.sas.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 6:54 AM To: 'Roth, William'; 'gwong(a)futureshop.com' Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Backing up a filer I understand that you can do NDMP dump across the network to a media server... it is even mentioned in technote 3066, section 4.3 (# 4 below): ---- The NDMP protocol specification allows the following backup configurations: 1. Local backup from a filer to a SCSI-attached tape device 2. Three-way backup from a filer via the network to another filer with a local tape device 3. Backup from a UNIX or Windows NT server via the network to a NetApp filer with a local tape device 4. Backup from a NetApp filer via the network to a UNIX or Windows NT backup server with a local tape device ---- We currently backup filers via dedicated directly attached tape drives (using Veritas NetBackup)... but, this is a costly solution because the tape drives are idle probably 75% of the time. We will be testing NDMP across a dedicated GB ethernet network in the near future. Even if we see some decrease in backup throughput, it will good if we can get those 20 dedicated DLT7000 tape drives in S'Tek 9710's doing more work for us... Is anyone already using a private network and NDMP to backup a filer? Kelly -- Kelly Wyatt, Kelly.Wyatt(a)SAS.com Systems Programmer Integrated Solutions Consulting SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 http://www.sas.com -----Original Message----- From: Roth, William [mailto:William.Roth@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:21 AM To: 'gwong(a)futureshop.com' Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Backing up a filer Greg, If you want to use NetBackup with NDMP to back up the filer, you need to have at least one direct attached tape drive connected to the filer(not considering a three way NDMP backup using two filers with a tape device direct connected to the remote filer). You can dedicate one or more drives from an existing library controlled by NetBackup, or you can attach a new/different library to the filer(yes, the filer does support a locally attached library). Either the NetBackup host (NDMP client) or the filer can be direct connected to the robotic portion of the library(assuming the library has individual scsi ports for the connection). In the end, NetBackup ends up controlling the library either way. If the robot is direct connected to the NetBackup host via scsi, NetBackup controls it. If the robot is connected to the filer via scsi, the NetBackup host sends scsi cdb's via NDMP to the robot through the filer, thus the robot is still controller by NetBackup. What other information or assistance do you require? Bill Roth Technical Marketing Engineer Network Appliance, Inc. 495 East Java Drive Sunnyvale, CA 94089 Telephone 408-822-3308 -----Original Message----- From: Greg Wong [mailto:gwong@futureshop.com] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:45 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Backing up a filer Hi all, I'm kind of new to the this filer business and I have a question about backing it up. We have an F720 on site that isn't doing much since we aren't backing it up. I need some options on how to do this. We currently back up our other systems vith Veritas Netbackup and a tape library. Now, my question(s) is if I want to use Veritas to back up the filer using NDMP, do I have to dedicate a drive on the remote tape library to the filer? Will the filer support a locally attached library, and if it does, does Veritas control the library or does the filer? Thanks for your help Greg

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RE: Backing up a filer
by Kelly Wyatt 09 Feb '00

09 Feb '00

Bummer... I just tried a backup from a filer to the master's locally attached drive and got an errro 154 -- storage unit characteristics mismatched to request. This is w/ NetBackup 3.1.1, and from reading my NBU 3.2 manuals, it does not look like this will work (because the sun is not an "NDMP host" and I have not seen in the doc how to make it one). Kelly -- Kelly Wyatt, Kelly.Wyatt(a)SAS.com Systems Programmer Integrated Solutions Consulting SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 http://www.sas.com

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Problems dumping onto 2 tapes using F500 and Adic DLT4000
by Simon Butcher 09 Feb '00

09 Feb '00

I have recently begun to require 2 tapes for my backups. However, if I load the tapes into the slots in my DLT4000 (which sysconfig tells me is a FastStor DLT & mt -f rst0a status gives me Digial DLT4000) and do a "dump 0uf urst0a,urst0a /vol/vol0" it appears to work (dumping tape 1 then dumping tape 2) but when i try to restore (with the t option) i find it hasn't touched the second tape at all, but has overwritten the tape 1 with tape 2 data. Any ideas? sysconfig -t doesn't give me the option for rst1a Also the tapes never physically eject, they just go 'offline' Cheers, SB ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Re: Tape Drives
by Steve Armijo 09 Feb '00

09 Feb '00

On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 03:22:17PM -0600, Mark D Fowle wrote: > Does anyone have Spectralogic 4000 (dat) with 4 drives, or Spectralogic 10000 > (ait-2) with 2 drives or > a Breece Hill (DLT 7000) with 2 drives .... attached to your filers ? did the breece hill dance. they are very flaky, but they mostly work once you understand how they want you to function. -s -- Cue the music, fade to black, no such thing as no payback. -PWEI [ armijo(a)cs.unm.edu ]

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