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RE: max file system size
by Jason Middlebrooks 16 Feb '00

16 Feb '00

So on a F760 I can have 56 32GB drives on one fibre loop? Is any performance lost here? Thanks Jason "Bond, Andrew" <abond(a)netapp.com> on 01/28/2000 09:48:33 AM To: Jason Middlebrooks/Datalink cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: max file system size This question should really be addressed to your local NetApp sales person or SE, however: > Is the maximum storage per fibre loop still 464.4GB? No. The maximum storage per F760 is presently approx. 1.4TB raw disk space. This can be on one loop or more than one loop, in whatever config you require, subject to a maximum of 56 devices per loop. Regards, Andrew

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Which spare 9 or 18 or 36
by Jim Harm 15 Feb '00

15 Feb '00

Dear super informative list; Let's say there is a volume of 9 GB drives in a 760 and another volume of 18 GB(or 36 GB). Now I have a 9 GB spare and an 18 GB spare in the box also. When a drive dies, does the box pick the spare of the same size as the failed disk to rebuild? }}}===============>> LLNL James E. Harm (Jim); jharm(a)llnl.gov (925) 422-4018 Page: 423-7705x57152

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Re: Backing up a filer
by Steve Kappel 15 Feb '00

15 Feb '00

mark wrote: >> NetBackup NDMP does NOT use multiplexing. Also note that for NDMP >> the tape format is determined by the NDMP server vendor. > >NDMP uses dump format as well doesn't it? So all the propositions above >get a little messed around here anyhoo. No, NDMP is format neutral. NetApp's implementation of NDMP uses dump. tar is used by some others. __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve.kappel(a)iname.com (Personal)

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Re: Backing up a filer
by Steve Kappel 15 Feb '00

15 Feb '00

Eyal, >Are there any plans / ideas from Veritas on improving backup/restore times of >filers ? The only time NetBackup has a performance impact on backup is when there are a very large number of files in the backup (on the order of millions). Currently we get all the NDMP history in DIR & NODE messages which we then have to convert into full paths for our catalog. This can be CPU, RAM, and disk intensive. We are investigating options for how we might address this issue. As for restore time there isn't much we can do besides add support for 'direct access restore'. Sounds easy but it isn't. Even when NetApp supports it, it may not be what you want - it will have limitations. It is a hard thing to do with a dump-style backup. Because of the limitations and the NetBackup model, we may not be able to support it reliably. We always take the conservative approach of doing everything we can to make sure you get the correct data and any new optimizations have to be bullet-proof. In the end, all we can do is support what NDMP and each NDMP server implementation provides to us. >It seems that the tape/backup s/w is not keeping up well with the filers' huge >sizes ? I don't think it is just filers - the whole industry is seeing an explosion of data. Tape drives certainly haven't kept up with disk. Of course NetBackup has other features that are not available in the NDMP world simply because 1) we have raw access to the disk, and 2) we control the tape format. >What is the best configuration that can give us best performance ? From a NetBackup perspective the only thing you can do is try to keep the number of files per backup from getting very large. Trouble is that breaking a volume up into different backups has an impact on filer efficiency (unless you use quota trees). __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve.kappel(a)iname.com (Personal)

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Re: Backing up a filer
by Darrell Fuhriman 15 Feb '00

15 Feb '00

"Eyal Traitel" <eyal.traitel(a)motorola.com> writes: > Are there any plans / ideas from Veritas on improving > backup/restore times of filers ? In this case the issue is primarily the fact that Netapp continues to use dump, which is not the speediest way to recover files. (Being that it has to search the entire tape(s) to get even a single file.) Of course, Veritas has plenty of it's own problems (restore times being only one of them) -- don't get me started. > It seems that the tape/backup s/w is not keeping up well with > the filers' huge sizes ? No question. I've been continually making noises at Netapp to improve the way they do backups, but haven't heard of any movement. > What is the best configuration that can give us best performance ? Well, you could consider using legato and the netapp clientpak, though that requires you to do backups over the network, which is really sub-optimal. Given the current state of affairs at Legato Corporate, who knows what's going to happen in the future with the product. Restores should be dramatically faster though. I think ultimately, right now, the only thing you can do is use faster tape drives and/or smaller volumes, neither of which is really good solution. Darrell

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Re: Backing up a filer
by Steve Kappel 15 Feb '00

15 Feb '00

>> > supported. I liked the fact that both QR and Veritas used an ISO standard >> > tar format for the backup. This ruled Legato out early, since they use >> >> Hmmm, I suspect from what I've learned from Veritas and others, that >> you don't see tar format on the tapes used for the basic backups. The >> reasoning being that the backup software usually interleaves several >> streams of data from clients to ensure streaming onto tapes (to extend >> tape lifetimes as well as reduce the overall backup window). Cloning the >> tapes in some manner allows the backup software to reduce the chance of >> data loss AND also to rationalize the interleaving so you do get tape >> files with coherent tar format inside.. but some folks don't clone >> tapes, so they may well never get tar-readable tapes. > >My understanding of Budtool and Quick Restore was that you could pull tar >files off of the tape directly. Generally, the desire for this ability is: > >1) if the machine with the backup software goes down, you can still do >recoveries, and >2) you can restore to differing systems. > >I will grant that the Veritas solution of interleaving streams does sound >well thought out and probably more efficient, but from an admin's >perspective, you have to figure some day the worst will happen. Interleaving (multiplexing is the term in NetBackup) is optional in NetBackup. You can turn it off for any class. NetBackup NDMP does NOT use multiplexing. Also note that for NDMP the tape format is determined by the NDMP server vendor. __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve.kappel(a)iname.com (Personal)

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strange NT errors when copying a file
by Steve Bos 15 Feb '00

15 Feb '00

Has anyone experienced a "session was canceled" error before? When copying a file from a NT box to a 720, the file seems to be copying fine, then at the very end the "session was canceled" error pops up on the NT machine. The strange thing is the file seems to have copied, at least the file sizes are the same. This error doesn't exactly fill you with confidence that the copy went o.k. In the environment, it seems that some machines are more susceptible to this error than others. Has anyone ever run into this before? Thanks in advance... Steve -- Steve Bos steve(a)intervision.com InterVision Systems (408) 567-4223

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Re: AW: Backing up a filer
by Steve Kappel 15 Feb '00

15 Feb '00

>- Do you know, when Netbackup v3.4 will be released? It will be going beta in a few weeks. So probably a few months away. >- Backing up Files without ACL´s? >We also have many UNIX-Files and dont need the use of ACL´s. Is there a >possibility >to disable NDMP-Backup with ACLs? If possible, does this affect restore >times, because the acl´s on the end of the file are not needed. I'm not sure I understand the question. If you are wondering about turning off the backup of ACLs, I believe there is a NetApp NDMP environment variable that can do that. As far as I am aware this wouldn't affect the restore time - it still reads the entire image (I think). Someone from NetApp can correct me if I'm wrong. With NDMP the backup product just positions to the beginning and tells the NDMP server to start the restore. What happens after that is up to the NDMP server implementation. >- NDMP v3: >Are ther any real enhancements with this implementation and when will it be >released >with Veritas/Netapp? V3 adds some minor things to the protocol but that doesn't mean they are used by a given NDMP client. V3 is not in NetBackup 3.4. I can't tell you what is in the following release because the feature content hasn't been finalized (and maybe even then I can't say ;). V3 is in the pipeline but I wouldn't expect any functionality impact because of it. __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve.kappel(a)iname.com (Personal)

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AW: Backing up a filer
by Micheler Klaus (EZM, Villach) 15 Feb '00

15 Feb '00

Hi Steve! Thanks for the answers. Please let me ask some more questions. - Do you know, when Netbackup v3.4 will be released? This alternate client restore is very vital to us, because the filer tends to crash, if Data is changed while Restores. One idea is to make a volume for restores only. With the current solution it had to be done on each filer, with alternate Client restore it had to be done only on one Filer - Backing up Files without ACL´s? We also have many UNIX-Files and dont need the use of ACL´s. Is there a possibility to disable NDMP-Backup with ACLs? If possible, does this affect restore times, because the acl´s on the end of the file are not needed. - NDMP v3: Are ther any real enhancements with this implementation and when will it be released with Veritas/Netapp? Thanks in advance for your answers. regards, Klaus Micheler mailto:klaus.micheler@infineon.com -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Steve Kappel [mailto:steve.kappel@raistlin.min.ov.com] Gesendet am: Montag, 14. Februar 2000 20:38 An: Klaus.Micheler(a)infineon.com Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: RE: Backing up a filer Hi Klaus, > -NDMP alternate client Restore: Restore Data backuped from Client A >directly to Client B? > What must I do to make this possible? This functionality is implemented in the upcoming NetBackup 3.4 release. > -NDMP Direct Acces Recovery: > Restore of single Files/Directories in a short time (Our Backup >Images are currently about 100 - 150GB). > What Restore times do you have? (In my case, it looks like the >Filersearches the whole dump, which can take up to 8 hours). Is there any >possibility to speed this up? Yes, the entire dump image is read by restore. Neither OnTap or NetBackup support direct access restore in currently shipping releases. This is a complicated problem to solve in a dump-style backup. The only suggestion I can make to improve restore speed is to breakup the backup into smaller dumps. If you are doing full volume dumps now then this may be less efficient as far as backup speed is concerned. __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve.kappel(a)iname.com (Personal)

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Storage Service Providers
by Bruce Sterling Woodcock 14 Feb '00

14 Feb '00

If it's okay to ask about more general issues on this list... I saw that netdrive.com is using Netapp for their online storage. I'm curious if people on this list see this as a big area in the future? Is B2C storage going to catch on with home users with thin clients? Are any of you considering B2B storage at the businesses where you work? Essentially, outsourcing your storage to a provider who gives you a storage line just like phone, electricity, or any other utility. Bruce

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