toasters August 2002

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

102 participants
113 discussions

ndmpcopy performance on F740
by Brian Tao 09 Aug '02

09 Aug '02

What sort of throughput are people seeing between two F740s on Fast Ethernet using ndmpcopy? I'm getting at best 4 megabytes per second on the destination filer, with the CPU (from a "sysstat 1") hovering above 95%. The source filer is still humming along at about 20% CPU (though difficult to tell, since there was other activity on the source filer at the time). Doesn't seem that writes via NDMP are very efficient on an F740 (6.1.2R1 on both ends). I'm starting to think that putting a cheap FreeBSD Intel box between the two filers doing copies over NFS will be faster (in fact, I'm pretty sure it will be). Does it get better if I have parallel NDMP sessions going? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

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Netapp migrating
by Asbjørn Bjørkelund 09 Aug '02

09 Aug '02

Hello Toasters We are going to migrate a filer from a NT40 domain to a W2K AD native mode domain, and there is a trust between these 2 domain, and all the users are located on the W2K domain. On the filer we have lots of local groups, files and users working and we don't to want generate new acl's. We have been looking on the microsoft utility ADMT, is there anyone with experience using this utility, to migrate locale groups and machine account? Hilsen / Best Regards Asbjørn Bjørkelund

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Novell migration
by Tom Yergeau 08 Aug '02

08 Aug '02

Has anyone ever made the leap from NetWare to NetApp? If you'd be willing to tell me about the experience and if you're happy with the move, I'd appreciate it if you'd drop me a note. Thanks!

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Re: # of volumes
by Tom Yergeau 08 Aug '02

08 Aug '02

MessageSpares not only cross shelves they even cross FCAL adapters if you have shelves on different FCAL HBAs. A single volume would have to lose two disks simultaneously or two disks after the first rebult in order to lose data with only one spare. If it lost one disk, then shortly thereafter another disk, then having a second spare would not help as the first one would still be rebuilding and you'd lose the volume. If you lose one disk, rebuild, and lose another disk, you're still intact but in degraded mode and vulnerable. Having a second spare would be helpful. But the odds of losing two disks, the second one after the first one rebuilt but before NetApp got you a replacement 4 hrs or the next day, seems low. If you have two spares per filer like Sam mentioned, you're covered anyway since hot spares are global to the entire filer. Gosh this sounds convoluted! :-) MD ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Evans To: Tom Yergeau Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:35 PM Subject: RE: # of volumes Well if you have a 14 disk shelf, and two volumes, then each volume could have a disk fail on top of one more that the spare would cover. But yeah, if your doing a 1:13 ratio then it doesn't matter anyways because I don't believe spares can cross shelfs. Steve Evans Computing Services (619) 594-0653

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Netcache /serialnum-file
by Vibeke Ostensvik 08 Aug '02

08 Aug '02

Hi there, How do I fill in the system serial number at a netcache.I have a filer which I've installed to be a netcache C740, with version 5.3R1(testmachine), to register it with system serialnumber I used the same method as on a filer (wrfile serialnum a.s.o).But when I tell my customer to do the same it doesnt work (===== SYSCONFIG-A ===== NetApp Release 5.2.1R1D9: Sat May 4 04:52:20 PDT 2002 System ID: 0016800593 (xxxxx) slot 0: System Board (NetApp System Board V F6) Model Name: C720S Serial Number: 22222 Firmware release: 2.8_a2 Processors: 1 Memory Size: 512 MB - his autosupportmail still comes without systems-serialnumber(sysconfig -a and sysconfig -d , how come? Best regards Vibeke Østensvik

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FW: 382003 (fwd) - Snapshot issues
by Chris Blackmor 08 Aug '02

08 Aug '02

Below is the output of a snap list and an ls of a .snapshot directory. I placed this call because I have an RCS directory that the files are being repeatedly wiped out. We have searched for cron jobs and scripts that could be causing the problem but have found nothing. Tonight, while working with a user on the issue, we noted that it happened right around 8pm. Also noted was that it seemed to happen every 4 hours. This also coincides with my snap sched for that volume. I am wondering if any of you toasters out there have noted issues with snapshots like the list below OR (more importantly) issues with files under RCS control being wiped out around the time of a snapshot. NetApp is looking into the issue but has nothing for me at this time. Thanks for your time. C- PS... CHRISBTEST was a manual snapshot taken to see if it would blow away my data under RCS. ----- Forwarded message from "Petlock, Allen" <allen.petlock(a)netapp.com> ----- From: "Petlock, Allen" <allen.petlock(a)netapp.com> To: "'chris.blackmor(a)amd.com'" <chris.blackmor(a)amd.com> Subject: FW: 382003 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:17:13 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) -----Original Message----- From: Chris Blackmor [mailto:chris.blackmor@amd.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:19 PM To: apetlock(a)netapp.com Subject: RE: 382003 chrisb@chigger:/u/k7_d1/patterns/amdtest/RCS > ls -al .snapshot total 2760 drwxrwxrwx 11 root root 4096 Aug 7 21:15 . drwxrwxr-x 3 sharonb design 348160 Aug 7 21:14 .. drwxrwxr-x 2 sharonb design 348160 Aug 7 21:14 CHRISBTEST1 drwxrwxr-x 2 sharonb design 348160 Aug 7 20:00 hourly.0 drwxr-xr-x 2 root other 348160 Aug 7 13:09 hourly.1 ---------- 1 root root 0 Jul 23 2001 hourly.2 ---------- 1 root root 0 Jul 23 2001 hourly.3 ---------- 1 root root 0 Jul 23 2001 hourly.4 ---------- 1 root root 0 Jul 23 2001 hourly.5 ---------- 1 root root 0 Jul 23 2001 nightly.0 ---------- 1 root root 0 Jul 23 2001 nightly.1 chrisb@chigger:/u/k7_d1/patterns/amdtest/RCS > sr raffael snap list vol2 Volume vol2 working................................... %/used %/total date name ---------- ---------- ------------ -------- 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Aug 07 21:15 CHRISBTEST1 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Aug 07 20:00 hourly.0 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Aug 07 16:00 hourly.1 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Aug 07 12:00 hourly.2 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Aug 07 08:00 hourly.3 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Aug 07 00:00 nightly.0 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Aug 06 20:00 hourly.4 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Aug 06 16:00 hourly.5 2% ( 1%) 1% ( 1%) Aug 06 00:00 nightly.1 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- * | * * Chris Blackmor _______ | Good judgment comes from * * Advanced Micro Devices \____ | | experience * * Phone: (512) 602-1608 /| | | | And a lot of that comes * * Fax: (512) 602-5155 | |___| | | from * * Email: chris.blackmor(a)amd.com |____/ \| | bad judgment! * * | Author Unknown* ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- * My comments are mine, and mine alone. * -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: # of volumes
by Sam Schorr 08 Aug '02

08 Aug '02

I should mention one other "annoying" behavior - when a disk drops from the filer, is not marked as "failed" and no autosupport is issued. So, you can have a missing disk that the filer will spare out, using whatever spare(s) you have provided. However, unless you monitor for this condition by comparing disks total counts to what should be there, its possible to have a failure, use your spare, not replace the spare and get a second failure. This condition does exist under 6.1R1 - it may be fixed in later ONTap revs. In this scenario, having 2 or more spares is very good indeed. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Yergeau [mailto:yergeau@yergeau.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 2:26 PM To: Steve Evans; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: # of volumes Spares not only cross shelves they even cross FCAL adapters if you have shelves on different FCAL HBAs. A single volume would have to lose two disks simultaneously or two disks after the first rebult in order to lose data with only one spare. If it lost one disk, then shortly thereafter another disk, then having a second spare would not help as the first one would still be rebuilding and you'd lose the volume. If you lose one disk, rebuild, and lose another disk, you're still intact but in degraded mode and vulnerable. Having a second spare would be helpful. But the odds of losing two disks, the second one after the first one rebuilt but before NetApp got you a replacement 4 hrs or the next day, seems low. If you have two spares per filer like Sam mentioned, you're covered anyway since hot spares are global to the entire filer. Gosh this sounds convoluted! :-) MD ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Evans <mailto:sevans@foundation.sdsu.edu> To: Tom Yergeau <mailto:yergeau@yergeau.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:35 PM Subject: RE: # of volumes Well if you have a 14 disk shelf, and two volumes, then each volume could have a disk fail on top of one more that the spare would cover. But yeah, if your doing a 1:13 ratio then it doesn't matter anyways because I don't believe spares can cross shelfs. Steve Evans Computing Services (619) 594-0653

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RE: Snapshot storage
by Muhlestein, Mark 08 Aug '02

08 Aug '02

At the moment the option is per-vfiler, which means if you are using MultiStore you can have different policies for each vfiler. Thanks again for the comments and suggestions. I am keeping track of them. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Piotr KUCHARSKI [mailto:chopin@sgh.waw.pl] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:44 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Snapshot storage On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 12:20:20AM +0200, Dirk Schmiedt wrote: > >At some point we plan to add support for NFS, and/or to add a way to > >manually force a folding scan on a directory, etc. If people are > >interested in this let me know so I can add your comments to the feature > >request. > How about moving this ff option from a system wide > range to a volume based option? Hey, don't shorten their vision, they wanted to do it per directory ;) (I'd like to have it per qtree) p.

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Re: # of Volumes.
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 08 Aug '02

08 Aug '02

If you consider the dropping prices on used 9gb/18gb/36gb NetApp disks, there's little reason to scrimp on an additional spare drive and/or drive shelf. Scott Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 email: scott(a)unioncomputer.com phone: 952 935 7282 | fax: 952 935 5056 > Subj:RE: # of Volumes. > Date:8/7/2002 3:06:28 PM Central Standard Time > From:<A HREF="mailto:dheiland@lucent.com">dheiland(a)lucent.com</A> > To:<A HREF="mailto:toasters@mathworks.com">toasters(a)mathworks.com</A> > Sent from the Internet > > > > > We usually run with one spare for our filers, regardless of the number of > disks. When I recently asked for a quote from Netapp, the sales contact > suggested 3 spares for a 10 shelf system and that it was risky to run with > just 1, which we've never heard from them before. > > I'm not sure why its risky. We've been running this way for years, with no > issues. With next day shipment of replacement disks it doesn't seem to be > an issue > > So how many spares do people use/recommend? > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Musgrove [mailto:matt.musgrove@thales-is.com] > Sent: 07 August 2002 17:11 > To: devnull(a)adc.idt.com > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: # of Volumes. > > If it was me I would use 2 disks as vol0 and not keep any business critical > data on it, and use the remaining disks in vol1 (with 9 disks per RAID > group) > with 1 disk as spare. You would be very unlucky to need 2 spares! I have > 1 > spare for my 28 disks. Reconstruction time shouldn't be much of an issue > should it? > > Matt > > devnull(a)adc.idt.com wrote: > > > I am trying to decide on the number of volumes for our F810 which has a > > DS14 shelf(FC-AL), with 14 36G drives. > > > > By default Ontap puts 8 disks in a RAID group. > > > > I guess i am trying to figure out if > > > > * I should have 2 volumes vol0 and vol1, one with 8 disks and one with 5 > > disks and i have ONE spare for both the volumes > > (Is this safe in terms of ratio of disks used to spares ? ) > > > > * Have 2 volumes(6 + 6) and 2 spares > > > > * Have 1 volume with 13 disks and 1 spare. (reconstruction time on > > failed disk would be high, and i dont know if there will be performance > > issues esp in calculating parity etc) > > > > Other suggestions are welcome too. > > > > Many Thanks, > > > > Regards, > > > > /dev/null >

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RE: Snapshot storage
by Muhlestein, Mark 08 Aug '02

08 Aug '02

The snapshot folding happens in WAFL of course, but the trigger to cause a file to be scanned happens based on CIFS requests. If an NFS client overwrites a file with identical data it will result in new allocations. If a CIFS client does that when the folding option is "on" it will not result in new allocations if the old blocks are in the last snapshot. This works even if the data is written to a temp file which is subsequently renamed to the original file, as Windows applications typically do. At some point we plan to add support for NFS, and/or to add a way to manually force a folding scan on a directory, etc. If people are interested in this let me know so I can add your comments to the feature request. Mark Muhlestein -- Network Appliance Engineering > -----Original Message----- > From: Dirk Schmiedt [mailto:Dirk.Schmiedt@munich.netsurf.de] > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 10:05 AM > To: stefan.holzwarth(a)zentrale.adac.de > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: Snapshot storage > > > stefan.holzwarth(a)zentrale.adac.de wrote: > > >... > > > >After looking around i found some users using their quota > for doing backups > >to our filer. > >That backups were deleted after 2 weeks and replaced by new backups. > >This led to a large amount of data invisible to the quota system, but > >wasting a lot of snapstorage. > > > >How can i deal with that situation and especialy: how to > find users/qtrees > >with a lot of changed data? > > > Hello Stefan > > 1) As the others already stated: For (not just ... :-) ) CIFS > there is > this new filefolding option. If you take a closer look at the > "options" > manpage explaining this new ONTAP 6.2 feature you can detect, that it > will work on any file getting closed without making any difference > wether it is a CIFS or NFS file close => It works for NFS, > too. It was > just named, CIFS option because there it is needed by this > "document.xxx gets renamed to document.bak and then write > document.xxx > again" behaviour of MS-Applications... You usually don't > need it if you > have NFS Clients .... and ... if you are not having users that > explicitely rewrite their data over and over again .. like your users > do. :-( > > Maybe NetApp can/will? change this option to a wafl-option? cifs -> > wafl.snapshot_file_folding.enable

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toasters August 2002