toasters December 2001

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

91 participants
112 discussions

Legato Networker NDMP, anyone?
by Marion Hakanson 27 Dec '01

27 Dec '01

Folks, I'm studying up on networker-6.1.1, in preparation for converting from BudTool to NetWorker, and according to the docs, there are some pretty serious (to me) limitations in Networker's NDMP support. I would very much like to hear from anyone out there who is already using this backup software with their NetApp (or with other NDMP devices), so I can get a better idea about what's ahead for us. Oh, you're probably going to ask me anyway, so here's my list of things that NetWorker NDMP cannot do, which I can currently do with BudTool: (1) Cannot clone (e.g. for offsite storage) NDMP backups. (2) Cannot rename-on-recover; Non-destructive save-set recovery is not supported; It looks like you might be able to work around this by using a directed recovery (i.e. to non-original location), although they indicate this is used to restore to a different NDMP host. (3) Cannot backup to a remote (non-NDMP) tape device, unless you buy an extra software module (SnapImage, which also does other stuff). (4) Cannot send NDMP backups to a filesystem device (not even if you have SnapImage). (5) Must have separate (tape) pools for NDMP and non-NDMP backups. Suggestions, corrections, and comments are welcome. Regards, -- Marion Hakanson <hakanson(a)cse.ogi.edu> CSE Computing Facilities

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converting from single volume structure to qtrees
by Igor Schein 27 Dec '01

27 Dec '01

Hi, I have 1 jumbo volume with a number of project directories on it. I wanna have each of the directory to be a separate qtree. If I try to create a new qtree, it complains that the name already exists, and there's no way to force overwrite. If I rename the existing directory, create a qtree with desired name and move the data underneath it, it does copy-and-delete, rather than just move, so if I have a directory of 100GB in size ( which I do ), it takes forever. Do I have any other viable options? Thanks Igor

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RE: restoring ndmp tapes on solaris
by Toal, Dave 26 Dec '01

26 Dec '01

Ernie, Ok, yes, very good point. The tapes with the 2-record headers I described were written by Veritas Netbackup, not the netapp's dump command. It also wrote short 1-block files between each data dump file. |====||===,===,================||===||===,===,============... ^ ^ ufsrestore here, assuming monospace font. As always, YMMV. -----Original Message----- From: Bokkelkamp Ernst To: Toal, Dave; 'neil lehrer '; 'toasters ' Sent: 12/26/01 2:35 PM Subject: RE: restoring ndmp tapes on solaris Actually, that is not 100% correct ;-( The Data Management Application (~ your backup application) can control the tape drive by sending SCSI commands through NDMP (SCSI pass-through). This allows the application to write additional information to the tape drive, such as labels used to identify the tape media. Depending on the backup application you may have to skip some more blocks. Under Networker 6.0 this should be 2 blocks of 32Kb. Looking back at a problem I helped with a few weeks ago it may be possible that the two blocks mentioned below are actually tape labels written by the backup application and not by ONTAP dump. We recovered the data by moving the ndmp tape forward by two blocks and then used restore to recover the data. Bye Ernie -----Original Message----- From: Toal, Dave [mailto:dave.toal@t-t.com] Sent: Mittwoch, 26. Dezember 2001 17:44 To: 'neil lehrer '; 'toasters ' Subject: RE: restoring ndmp tapes on solaris Neil, Yes, ndmp dump tapes work with sun ufsrestore. The catch is, though, that the netapp writes 2 records at the beginning of the dump, that ufsrestore isn't expecting. So, mt fsf to the dump file on your tape, then mt fsr 2 (norewind device both times, natch). Then ufsrestore as usual. -- Dave Toal unix person Thomson & Thomson N Quincy, MA -----Original Message----- From: neil lehrer To: toasters Sent: 12/26/01 11:09 AM Subject: restoring ndmp tapes on solaris hi, since ndmp uses ontap dump to create backups and "Dump command data format The data is written to tape in a format compatible with the standard BSD-dump format. This means that you can restore Network Appliance dump tapes using the Solaris ufsrestore command. The only data that you cannot restore with this command are the CIFS (Windows NT) attributes, because Solaris does not support them. However, the data itself is accessible." can a backup tape written locally on a filer using ndmp be taken to a solaris box with a compatible drive and restored? thanks. -- regards +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Neil Lehrer + + United States International Broadcasting Bureau + System Development Division + + voice 202 619-2524 + fax 202 619-3576 + nlehrer(a)ibb.gov + + " is this crisis an opportunity or just + another grab the fire extinguisher moment?" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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RE: restoring ndmp tapes on solaris
by Bokkelkamp Ernst 26 Dec '01

26 Dec '01

Actually, that is not 100% correct ;-( The Data Management Application (~ your backup application) can control the tape drive by sending SCSI commands through NDMP (SCSI pass-through). This allows the application to write additional information to the tape drive, such as labels used to identify the tape media. Depending on the backup application you may have to skip some more blocks. Under Networker 6.0 this should be 2 blocks of 32Kb. Looking back at a problem I helped with a few weeks ago it may be possible that the two blocks mentioned below are actually tape labels written by the backup application and not by ONTAP dump. We recovered the data by moving the ndmp tape forward by two blocks and then used restore to recover the data. Bye Ernie -----Original Message----- From: Toal, Dave [mailto:dave.toal@t-t.com] Sent: Mittwoch, 26. Dezember 2001 17:44 To: 'neil lehrer '; 'toasters ' Subject: RE: restoring ndmp tapes on solaris Neil, Yes, ndmp dump tapes work with sun ufsrestore. The catch is, though, that the netapp writes 2 records at the beginning of the dump, that ufsrestore isn't expecting. So, mt fsf to the dump file on your tape, then mt fsr 2 (norewind device both times, natch). Then ufsrestore as usual. -- Dave Toal unix person Thomson & Thomson N Quincy, MA -----Original Message----- From: neil lehrer To: toasters Sent: 12/26/01 11:09 AM Subject: restoring ndmp tapes on solaris hi, since ndmp uses ontap dump to create backups and "Dump command data format The data is written to tape in a format compatible with the standard BSD-dump format. This means that you can restore Network Appliance dump tapes using the Solaris ufsrestore command. The only data that you cannot restore with this command are the CIFS (Windows NT) attributes, because Solaris does not support them. However, the data itself is accessible." can a backup tape written locally on a filer using ndmp be taken to a solaris box with a compatible drive and restored? thanks. -- regards +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Neil Lehrer + + United States International Broadcasting Bureau + System Development Division + + voice 202 619-2524 + fax 202 619-3576 + nlehrer(a)ibb.gov + + " is this crisis an opportunity or just + another grab the fire extinguisher moment?" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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RE: restoring ndmp tapes on solaris
by Toal, Dave 26 Dec '01

26 Dec '01

Neil, Yes, ndmp dump tapes work with sun ufsrestore. The catch is, though, that the netapp writes 2 records at the beginning of the dump, that ufsrestore isn't expecting. So, mt fsf to the dump file on your tape, then mt fsr 2 (norewind device both times, natch). Then ufsrestore as usual. -- Dave Toal unix person Thomson & Thomson N Quincy, MA -----Original Message----- From: neil lehrer To: toasters Sent: 12/26/01 11:09 AM Subject: restoring ndmp tapes on solaris hi, since ndmp uses ontap dump to create backups and "Dump command data format The data is written to tape in a format compatible with the standard BSD-dump format. This means that you can restore Network Appliance dump tapes using the Solaris ufsrestore command. The only data that you cannot restore with this command are the CIFS (Windows NT) attributes, because Solaris does not support them. However, the data itself is accessible." can a backup tape written locally on a filer using ndmp be taken to a solaris box with a compatible drive and restored? thanks. -- regards +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Neil Lehrer + + United States International Broadcasting Bureau + System Development Division + + voice 202 619-2524 + fax 202 619-3576 + nlehrer(a)ibb.gov + + " is this crisis an opportunity or just + another grab the fire extinguisher moment?" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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restoring ndmp tapes on solaris
by neil lehrer 26 Dec '01

26 Dec '01

hi, since ndmp uses ontap dump to create backups and "Dump command data format The data is written to tape in a format compatible with the standard BSD-dump format. This means that you can restore Network Appliance dump tapes using the Solaris ufsrestore command. The only data that you cannot restore with this command are the CIFS (Windows NT) attributes, because Solaris does not support them. However, the data itself is accessible." can a backup tape written locally on a filer using ndmp be taken to a solaris box with a compatible drive and restored? thanks. -- regards +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Neil Lehrer + + United States International Broadcasting Bureau + System Development Division + + voice 202 619-2524 + fax 202 619-3576 + nlehrer(a)ibb.gov + + " is this crisis an opportunity or just + another grab the fire extinguisher moment?" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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AIT-3 drives
by Moshe Linzer 24 Dec '01

24 Dec '01

We have been told that we can upgrade our Qualstar library to AIT-3 drives next month. When will Sony AIT-3 drives be supported by OnTap? I assume they can be used in AIT-2 compaitbility mode in the meantime. Thanks, Moshe -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moshe Linzer | On the Internet, IT Manager | National Semiconductor, Israel | nobody knows you're a moron. Phone: 972-9-970-2247 | Fax: 972-9-970-2001 | - Network Magazine Email: moshel(a)nsc.com | -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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SCSI ID 1
by Todd Phillips 21 Dec '01

21 Dec '01

Anyone ever seen issues with SCSI ID 1 on the on board SCSI adapter on a F740? Slot: 0b Description: SCSI Host Adapter 0b (QLogic ISP rev. 1040B) Firmware Rev: 4.65 PCI Bus Width: 32-bit PCI Clock Speed: 33 MHz Bus Width: Wide Specifically, I direct attached a STK L40 tape library to the filer (robot and 2 drives). For some reason, if a drive was set to ID #1, it was sporadic in it's behavior. Sometimes the filer would recognize it, but suffer SCSI time outs. Sometimes it wouldn't recognize it at all. When I switched the drive from ID 1 to 3, all was fine. I have ID 0 as the robotics, 2 as drive 1 and 3 as drive 2. Can't find anything on NOW about it. Thanks. Todd

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RE: where do you usual sell a netapp ?
by Todd Phillips 21 Dec '01

21 Dec '01

Ya but, then you have to deal with EMC. I've worked with many and try to stay impartial. The IP4700 works but, not near the feature set or simplicity of the Filer. Know one has that combination. And if you're suggesting pure fibre channel SAN, that's a whole new can of worms. -----Original Message----- From: Art Hebert [mailto:art@arzoon.com] Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 7:29 PM To: 'Todd Phillips'; 'ulf(a)Alameda.net'; Mike Horwath Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: where do you usual sell a netapp ? Its more valuable to part it out than sell it. It cost more to have maintenance on it than to buy it. You can buy a terabyte of emc gear for $5K now. art -----Original Message----- From: Todd Phillips [mailto:toddp@iarchive.com] Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 3:40 PM To: 'ulf(a)Alameda.net'; Mike Horwath Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: where do you usual sell a netapp ? Hi Ulf. With the introduction of the F87, and the F85s going for 10k or less, you almost have to give the 720s away. Plus, licenses are not transferable so, that's an additional expense for anyone buying a used filer. Make sure your asking price is in check with current market value. Also, NetApp is being extremely price aggressive these days. Todd Phillips Sr. Systems Engineer Integrated Archive Systems, Inc. Ph: (650) 390-9995 Direct: (650) 528-4687 Cell: (415) 297-5762 Integrated Archive Systems (IAS) is the leading provider of Storage, Backup and Disaster Recovery Solutions. We have extensive experience and expertise in Server High Availability (HA), Clustering, RAID, NAS & SAN, Disaster Recovery & Backup Hardware and Software integration. -----Original Message----- From: Ulf Zimmermann [ mailto:ulf@Alameda.net <mailto:ulf@Alameda.net> ] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:36 PM To: Mike Horwath Cc: Ulf Zimmermann; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: where do you usual sell a netapp ? On Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 04:48:52PM -0600, Mike Horwath wrote: > On Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 01:41:36PM -0800, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > I was wonder where people usual post for sale for netapps. > > Probably going to sell this F720 in a few weeks after > > playing around with it to get more comfortable with > > its software and operation. > > Ebay usually has more than a few... All the NetApp F720 I have seen lately on Ebay have 0 bids on them. I put some of them on watch list, but all of those ended also with 0 bids. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204

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Season's Greetings
by Maglinger, Paul 21 Dec '01

21 Dec '01

Happy Holidays! May your filers grant you a peaceful and joyous holiday season! Remember, you are unique... just like everyone else! Paul Maglinger, A+, CA, CET, MCSE Systems Administrator Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com

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toasters December 2001