HiFilers will happily support NFS over TCP (indeed Netapp often recommends this, see for example http://www.netapp.com/library/tr/3183.pdf). There is also support for NFSv4 and apparently they have made some improvements to NFS in 7.2.x.I am not currently working much with ESX, so I shall have to leave that for others to comment on -- but this is an interesting discussion to follow. cheersKennethKenneth HealStorage ConsultantSenet Eindhoven bv> Subject: RE: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:00:48 +0100> From: MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com> To: slowe@EPLUS.com; toasters@mathworks.com> > > Is anyone using NFS volumes and VMware in a production environment ?> > I know it has been reported that there isn't a great deal difference in> performance especially when compared with IScsi, but is this true ?> > And from what I remember ESX only supports NFS V3 over TCP, do the> Filers work with this ? Sorry my knowledge of NFS wouldn't fill the back> of a postage stamp.> > And I'm sorry I have turned this into a VMware list :)> > > Cheers> > Matt> > > > > -----Original Message-----> From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@EPLUS.com] > Sent: 11 July 2007 15:44> To: Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com> Subject: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")> > The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are > handled in the NetApp world:> > 1. You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a > 100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are > workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is > nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for > the 20% Snapshot reserve.> > 2. You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can > resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the > filesystem--not the host.> > 3. It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the > proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify > backups and restores.> > As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned > disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than > with iSCSI.> > Thanks,> Scott Lowe> ePlus Technology, Inc.> slowe@eplus.com> > > > On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:> > > Scott,> >> > Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS> > isn't an area I have any experience of....> >> > Cheers> >> > Matt> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- > > toasters@mathworks.com]> > On Behalf Of Scott Lowe> > Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05> > To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com> > Subject: Re: List still active?> >> > Forest,> >> > When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd> > definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine> > network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC> > configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and> > only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the> > iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a> > VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide> > additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and> > has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).> >> > Regards,> > Scott Lowe> > ePlus Technology, Inc.> > slowe@eplus.com> >> >> >> > On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:> >> >> Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten> >> to the> >> Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.> >>> >> I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an > >> article> >> where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a > >> windows> >> host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually> >> don't> >> know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.> >>> >> I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card > >> for my> >> ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC> >> configuration. It> >> looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal> >> from my> >> Virtual Machine network?> >>> >> Thanks,> >> Forest> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com]> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM> >> To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com> >> Subject: RE: List still active?> >>> >> Sounds like we are both at the same stage.> >>> >> We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will> >> have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi> >> initiatator> >> from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people> >> doing it.> >>> >> We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and> >> have not> >> seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines> >> have> >> very low IO requirements.> >>> >> We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using > >> snapmirror,> >> it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM> >> which> >> was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not> >> being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have> >> cured> >> the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.> >>> >> The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest> >> netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the> >> filer,> >> but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.> >>> >> I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX > >> side,> >> but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that> >> subject.> >>> >> Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as> >> follows.> >>> >> 2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using> >> Virtual port ID> >>> >> 2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual > >> port ID> >>> >> 2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance > >> using IP> >> Hash> >>> >> Hope this helps....> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com]> >> Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06> >> To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com> >> Subject: RE: List still active?> >>> >> Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I> >> have migrated about 7 servers so far.> >>> >> Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual> >> Machines? I> >> actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores> >> and have not had any performance issues.> >>> >> Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one> >> into a> >> virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual> >> machine.> >>> >> Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?> >>> >> Thanks,> >> Forest> >>> >> ________________________________> >>> >> From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt> >> Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM> >> To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com> >> Subject: RE: List still active?> >>> >>> >>> >> Still working by the looks of things.> >>> >> busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored> >> on a> >> iscsi lun on a FAS 270.> >>> >> For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator> >> within ESX and have not had any problems so far.> >>> >> cheers> >>> >> matt> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com> >> To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com> >> Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007> >> Subject: List still active?> >>> >> I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email> >> since> >> July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else> >> while I was out of town did they?? J> >>> >>> >>> >> _____________________________________________________________> >> This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be> >> privileged.> >> It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the> >> addressee,> >> you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this> >> communication is> >> strictly> >> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please> >> erase all> >> copies of the message and its attachments and notify us > >> immediately at> >> help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. 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