Hi

Filers will happily support NFS over TCP (indeed Netapp often recommends this, see for example http://www.netapp.com/library/tr/3183.pdf). There is also support for NFSv4 and apparently they have made some improvements to NFS in 7.2.x.

I am not currently working much with ESX, so I shall have to leave that for others to comment on -- but this is an interesting discussion to follow. 

cheers
Kenneth

Kenneth Heal
Storage Consultant
Senet Eindhoven bv

> Subject: RE: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:00:48 +0100
> From: MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com
> To: slowe@EPLUS.com; toasters@mathworks.com
>
>
> Is anyone using NFS volumes and VMware in a production environment ?
>
> I know it has been reported that there isn't a great deal difference in
> performance especially when compared with IScsi, but is this true ?
>
> And from what I remember ESX only supports NFS V3 over TCP, do the
> Filers work with this ? Sorry my knowledge of NFS wouldn't fill the back
> of a postage stamp.
>
> And I'm sorry I have turned this into a VMware list :)
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@EPLUS.com]
> Sent: 11 July 2007 15:44
> To: Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com
> Subject: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
>
> The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are
> handled in the NetApp world:
>
> 1. You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a
> 100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are
> workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is
> nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for
> the 20% Snapshot reserve.
>
> 2. You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can
> resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the
> filesystem--not the host.
>
> 3. It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the
> proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify
> backups and restores.
>
> As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned
> disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than
> with iSCSI.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Lowe
> ePlus Technology, Inc.
> slowe@eplus.com
>
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:
>
> > Scott,
> >
> > Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS
> > isn't an area I have any experience of....
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-
> > toasters@mathworks.com]
> > On Behalf Of Scott Lowe
> > Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05
> > To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com
> > Subject: Re: List still active?
> >
> > Forest,
> >
> > When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd
> > definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine
> > network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC
> > configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and
> > only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the
> > iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a
> > VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide
> > additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and
> > has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Scott Lowe
> > ePlus Technology, Inc.
> > slowe@eplus.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten
> >> to the
> >> Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
> >>
> >> I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an
> >> article
> >> where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a
> >> windows
> >> host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually
> >> don't
> >> know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
> >>
> >> I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card
> >> for my
> >> ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC
> >> configuration. It
> >> looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal
> >> from my
> >> Virtual Machine network?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Forest
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM
> >> To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com
> >> Subject: RE: List still active?
> >>
> >> Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
> >>
> >> We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will
> >> have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi
> >> initiatator
> >> from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people
> >> doing it.
> >>
> >> We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and
> >> have not
> >> seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines
> >> have
> >> very low IO requirements.
> >>
> >> We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using
> >> snapmirror,
> >> it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM
> >> which
> >> was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not
> >> being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have
> >> cured
> >> the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
> >>
> >> The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest
> >> netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the
> >> filer,
> >> but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
> >>
> >> I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX
> >> side,
> >> but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that
> >> subject.
> >>
> >> Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as
> >> follows.
> >>
> >> 2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using
> >> Virtual port ID
> >>
> >> 2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual
> >> port ID
> >>
> >> 2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance
> >> using IP
> >> Hash
> >>
> >> Hope this helps....
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com]
> >> Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06
> >> To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com
> >> Subject: RE: List still active?
> >>
> >> Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I
> >> have migrated about 7 servers so far.
> >>
> >> Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual
> >> Machines? I
> >> actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores
> >> and have not had any performance issues.
> >>
> >> Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one
> >> into a
> >> virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual
> >> machine.
> >>
> >> Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Forest
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >> From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt
> >> Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM
> >> To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com
> >> Subject: RE: List still active?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Still working by the looks of things.
> >>
> >> busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored
> >> on a
> >> iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
> >>
> >> For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator
> >> within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
> >>
> >> cheers
> >>
> >> matt
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com <owner-toasters@mathworks.com>
> >> To: toasters@mathworks.com <toasters@mathworks.com>
> >> Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007
> >> Subject: List still active?
> >>
> >> I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email
> >> since
> >> July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else
> >> while I was out of town did they?? J
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _____________________________________________________________
> >> This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be
> >> privileged.
> >> It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the
> >> addressee,
> >> you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this
> >> communication is
> >> strictly
> >> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
> >> erase all
> >> copies of the message and its attachments and notify us
> >> immediately at
> >> help@generalatlantic.com <mailto:help@generalatlantic.com>. Thank
> >> You.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> #####################################################################
>
> >> #
> >
> >> ##
> >> #############
> >> Note:
> >> If you have received this message in error, please notify the
> >> original
> >> sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail,
> >> and
> >> delete the message, along with any attachments from your
> >> computer. If
> >> you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that
> >> any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any
> >> attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to
> >> notify
> >> the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known
> >> viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
> >> #####################################################################
>
> >> #
> >
> >> ##
> >> #############
> >>
> >> #####################################################################
>
> >> #
> >
> >> ###############
> >> Note:
> >> If you have received this message in error, please notify the
> >> original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return
> >> e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from
> >> your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are
> >> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
> >> this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly
> >> prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email
> >> that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking
> >> techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
> >> #####################################################################
>
> >> #
> >
> >> ###############
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>

Make every IM count. Download Windows Live Messenger and join the i'm Initiative now. It's free.   Make it count!