Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
**********************************************************************
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Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
**********************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
**********************************************************************
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You should set the snap reserve on that volume to 0
snap reserve vol_bond 0
When using LUNs you don't need to reserve space for snapshots as you are reserving space to guarantee the ability to write to your LUN. ----- Original Message ----- From: Willeke, Jochen To: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:53 AM Subject: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton **********************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
**********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ WINCOR NIXDORF International GmbH Sitz der Gesellschaft: Paderborn Registergericht Paderborn HRB 3507 Geschäftsführer: Eckard Heidloff (Vorsitzender), Stefan Auerbach, Dr. Jürgen Wunram Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Karl-Heinz Stiller Steuernummer: 339/5884/0020 - Ust-ID Nr.: DE812927716 - WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE44477193
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There's (sortof) an additional wrinkle that needs to be noted:
When space reserve is used, snap reserve isn't needed - snapdrive sets this to '0' as part of its process, and you might want to consider it as well (makes the math a touch easier to handle).
Additionally, just because the volume is at 100%, doesn't mean you'll corrupt data - the space reserve is used to prevent this (it is configurable, doesn't have to be 100%, but setting it lower increases the risk of running out of room and causing write failures when snapshots are used). _Technically_, SnapDrive (if you're using it) will stop allowing snapshots to be created when the volume reaches 100%, but there's no other risk of data loss during failed write from over utilization.
From a performance perspective: ideally, volumes should be no more than 80% full with some workloads, 90% for others - that said, 100% full really isn't 100% full when space reservations are used (from a performance perspective).
Hope that helps a little bit....
Glenn
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Willeke, Jochen Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:54 AM To: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
**********************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
**********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
________________________________
WINCOR NIXDORF International GmbH Sitz der Gesellschaft: Paderborn Registergericht Paderborn HRB 3507 Geschäftsführer: Eckard Heidloff (Vorsitzender), Stefan Auerbach, Dr. Jürgen Wunram Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Karl-Heinz Stiller Steuernummer: 339/5884/0020 - Ust-ID Nr.: DE812927716 - WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE44477193
Diese E-Mail enthält vertrauliche Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese E-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.
This e-mail may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
A first answer came from Jochen and I've to add that if you have a volume that has to contain a LUN (that is, with NetApp, a file) the default snapshot reservation area of 20% (or less) must be removed, so the snap schedule.
In your case
Filer> snap reserve vol_bond 0
Filer> snap sched vol_bond 0 0 0
This in case you use some software of Snapmanager suite (You did not tell us the usage of that lun) or the snapmirror snapshots will be placed in the active file system area having the necessary free space. Never size a volume less that 2/2.5 time the size of the contained luns.
Bye
Da: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] Per conto di Willeke, Jochen Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 12.54 A: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
**********************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
**********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
________________________________
WINCOR NIXDORF International GmbH Sitz der Gesellschaft: Paderborn Registergericht Paderborn HRB 3507 Geschäftsführer: Eckard Heidloff (Vorsitzender), Stefan Auerbach, Dr. Jürgen Wunram Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Karl-Heinz Stiller Steuernummer: 339/5884/0020 - Ust-ID Nr.: DE812927716 - WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE44477193
Diese E-Mail enthält vertrauliche Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese E-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.
This e-mail may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
thanks all for the excellent advice and pointers. I'll remove the snap reserve, I think the sizing is probably correct then.
The lun is mounted on a windows server that has snapdrive installed. The rate of change - varies from 3GB somedays to 80GB on others. The server runs a legacy app that uses an enormous 3.6 million flat text files (220GB), and the number of open files is in the 10,000's at any one time so it gets a battering.
Dave
Rullion Management Services Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 2797732.
"Milazzo Giacomo" G.Milazzo@sinergy.it Sent by: owner-toasters@mathworks.com 04/09/2008 14:06
To "Willeke, Jochen" Jochen.Willeke@wincor-nixdorf.com, David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk, toasters@mathworks.com cc
Subject R: Noob...
A first answer came from Jochen and I’ve to add that if you have a volume that has to contain a LUN (that is, with NetApp, a file) the default snapshot reservation area of 20% (or less) must be removed, so the snap schedule. In your case
Filer> snap reserve vol_bond 0 Filer> snap sched vol_bond 0 0 0
This in case you use some software of Snapmanager suite (You did not tell us the usage of that lun) or the snapmirror snapshots will be placed in the active file system area having the necessary free space. Never size a volume less that 2/2.5 time the size of the contained luns.
Bye
Da: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] Per conto di Willeke, Jochen Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 12.54 A: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
**********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
WINCOR NIXDORF International GmbH Sitz der Gesellschaft: Paderborn Registergericht Paderborn HRB 3507 Geschäftsführer: Eckard Heidloff (Vorsitzender), Stefan Auerbach, Dr. Jürgen Wunram Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Karl-Heinz Stiller Steuernummer: 339/5884/0020 - Ust-ID Nr.: DE812927716 - WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE44477193
Diese E-Mail enthält vertrauliche Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese E-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.
This e-mail may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
Ok.
If the lecacy application could do it consider the usage of a CIFS shared area instead of a LUN formatted and mounted on Windows VM.
The file system overall performances will be more than better ;-)
Double space available, snapshotting faster and so on…
Da: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk [mailto:David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk] Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 15.33 A: Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: Re: R: Noob...
thanks all for the excellent advice and pointers. I'll remove the snap reserve, I think the sizing is probably correct then.
The lun is mounted on a windows server that has snapdrive installed. The rate of change - varies from 3GB somedays to 80GB on others. The server runs a legacy app that uses an enormous 3.6 million flat text files (220GB), and the number of open files is in the 10,000's at any one time so it gets a battering.
Dave
Rullion Management Services Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 2797732.
"Milazzo Giacomo" G.Milazzo@sinergy.it Sent by: owner-toasters@mathworks.com
04/09/2008 14:06
To
"Willeke, Jochen" Jochen.Willeke@wincor-nixdorf.com, David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk, toasters@mathworks.com
cc
Subject
R: Noob...
A first answer came from Jochen and I’ve to add that if you have a volume that has to contain a LUN (that is, with NetApp, a file) the default snapshot reservation area of 20% (or less) must be removed, so the snap schedule. In your case
Filer> snap reserve vol_bond 0 Filer> snap sched vol_bond 0 0 0
This in case you use some software of Snapmanager suite (You did not tell us the usage of that lun) or the snapmirror snapshots will be placed in the active file system area having the necessary free space. Never size a volume less that 2/2.5 time the size of the contained luns.
Bye
Da: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] Per conto di Willeke, Jochen Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 12.54 A: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
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WINCOR NIXDORF International GmbH Sitz der Gesellschaft: Paderborn Registergericht Paderborn HRB 3507 Geschäftsführer: Eckard Heidloff (Vorsitzender), Stefan Auerbach, Dr. Jürgen Wunram Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Karl-Heinz Stiller Steuernummer: 339/5884/0020 - Ust-ID Nr.: DE812927716 - WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE44477193
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DO NOT DO THIS if it is an Oracle database. We did a few years ago and started having weird issues. Also, you are on your own if you do. Oracle does not support running databases over CIFS. They support NFS and LUNs, but no CIFS. ----- Original Message ----- From: Milazzo Giacomo To: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Cc: Willeke, Jochen ; owner-toasters@mathworks.com ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:51 AM Subject: R: R: Noob...
Ok.
If the lecacy application could do it consider the usage of a CIFS shared area instead of a LUN formatted and mounted on Windows VM.
The file system overall performances will be more than better ;-)
Double space available, snapshotting faster and so on…
Da: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk [mailto:David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk] Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 15.33 A: Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: Re: R: Noob...
thanks all for the excellent advice and pointers. I'll remove the snap reserve, I think the sizing is probably correct then.
The lun is mounted on a windows server that has snapdrive installed. The rate of change - varies from 3GB somedays to 80GB on others. The server runs a legacy app that uses an enormous 3.6 million flat text files (220GB), and the number of open files is in the 10,000's at any one time so it gets a battering.
Dave
Rullion Management Services Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 2797732.
"Milazzo Giacomo" G.Milazzo@sinergy.it Sent by: owner-toasters@mathworks.com
04/09/2008 14:06 To "Willeke, Jochen" Jochen.Willeke@wincor-nixdorf.com, David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk, toasters@mathworks.com
cc
Subject R: Noob...
A first answer came from Jochen and I’ve to add that if you have a volume that has to contain a LUN (that is, with NetApp, a file) the default snapshot reservation area of 20% (or less) must be removed, so the snap schedule. In your case
Filer> snap reserve vol_bond 0 Filer> snap sched vol_bond 0 0 0
This in case you use some software of Snapmanager suite (You did not tell us the usage of that lun) or the snapmirror snapshots will be placed in the active file system area having the necessary free space. Never size a volume less that 2/2.5 time the size of the contained luns.
Bye
Da: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] Per conto di Willeke, Jochen Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 12.54 A: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
**********************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WINCOR NIXDORF International GmbH Sitz der Gesellschaft: Paderborn Registergericht Paderborn HRB 3507 Geschäftsführer: Eckard Heidloff (Vorsitzender), Stefan Auerbach, Dr. Jürgen Wunram Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Karl-Heinz Stiller Steuernummer: 339/5884/0020 - Ust-ID Nr.: DE812927716 - WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE44477193
Diese E-Mail enthält vertrauliche Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese E-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.
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David,
Keep in mind that snapshots will only grow if you delete files. So if your data incorporates a lot of deletes, then you need to take that into consideration.
If this is a database, you will want to quiesce the DB to snapshot it; if the data is simple text files, you can snap it on the fly using the volume snap schedules. Giacomo mentioned setting your snap sched to 0 0 0, but if you're not using Snapmanager or other 3rd party backups and this is not a database, you'll want to allow snapshots to take place on a schedule.
________________________________
From: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk [mailto:David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:33 AM To: Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: R: Noob...
thanks all for the excellent advice and pointers. I'll remove the snap reserve, I think the sizing is probably correct then.
The lun is mounted on a windows server that has snapdrive installed. The rate of change - varies from 3GB somedays to 80GB on others. The server runs a legacy app that uses an enormous 3.6 million flat text files (220GB), and the number of open files is in the 10,000's at any one time so it gets a battering.
Dave
Rullion Management Services Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 2797732.
"Milazzo Giacomo" G.Milazzo@sinergy.it Sent by: owner-toasters@mathworks.com
04/09/2008 14:06
To "Willeke, Jochen" Jochen.Willeke@wincor-nixdorf.com, David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk, toasters@mathworks.com cc Subject R: Noob...
A first answer came from Jochen and I've to add that if you have a volume that has to contain a LUN (that is, with NetApp, a file) the default snapshot reservation area of 20% (or less) must be removed, so the snap schedule. In your case
Filer> snap reserve vol_bond 0 Filer> snap sched vol_bond 0 0 0
This in case you use some software of Snapmanager suite (You did not tell us the usage of that lun) or the snapmirror snapshots will be placed in the active file system area having the necessary free space. Never size a volume less that 2/2.5 time the size of the contained luns.
Bye
Da: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] Per conto di Willeke, Jochen Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 12.54 A: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
**********************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
**********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
________________________________
WINCOR NIXDORF International GmbH Sitz der Gesellschaft: Paderborn Registergericht Paderborn HRB 3507 Geschäftsführer: Eckard Heidloff (Vorsitzender), Stefan Auerbach, Dr. Jürgen Wunram Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Karl-Heinz Stiller Steuernummer: 339/5884/0020 - Ust-ID Nr.: DE812927716 - WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE44477193
Diese E-Mail enthält vertrauliche Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese E-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.
This e-mail may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
Even if it is a database, scheduled snapshots can still be useful, though it's better if the database is in hotbackup mode or whatever the non-Oracle equivalent is. A snapshot taken while the database is active is still valid, it's just that recovering to it is like the database state after a server crashes - you have to do media recovery, etc., and some transactions may have to be rolled back. Things like archive logs, etc. are perfectly valid in these scenarios as well.
Thanks,
Matt
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Parisi, Justin Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:52 AM To: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: R: Noob...
David,
Keep in mind that snapshots will only grow if you delete files. So if your data incorporates a lot of deletes, then you need to take that into consideration.
If this is a database, you will want to quiesce the DB to snapshot it; if the data is simple text files, you can snap it on the fly using the volume snap schedules. Giacomo mentioned setting your snap sched to 0 0 0, but if you're not using Snapmanager or other 3rd party backups and this is not a database, you'll want to allow snapshots to take place on a schedule.
________________________________
From: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk [mailto:David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:33 AM To: Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: R: Noob...
thanks all for the excellent advice and pointers. I'll remove the snap reserve, I think the sizing is probably correct then.
The lun is mounted on a windows server that has snapdrive installed. The rate of change - varies from 3GB somedays to 80GB on others. The server runs a legacy app that uses an enormous 3.6 million flat text files (220GB), and the number of open files is in the 10,000's at any one time so it gets a battering.
Dave
Rullion Management Services Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 2797732.
"Milazzo Giacomo" G.Milazzo@sinergy.it Sent by: owner-toasters@mathworks.com
04/09/2008 14:06
To
"Willeke, Jochen" Jochen.Willeke@wincor-nixdorf.com, David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk, toasters@mathworks.com
cc
Subject
R: Noob...
A first answer came from Jochen and I've to add that if you have a volume that has to contain a LUN (that is, with NetApp, a file) the default snapshot reservation area of 20% (or less) must be removed, so the snap schedule. In your case
Filer> snap reserve vol_bond 0 Filer> snap sched vol_bond 0 0 0
This in case you use some software of Snapmanager suite (You did not tell us the usage of that lun) or the snapmirror snapshots will be placed in the active file system area having the necessary free space. Never size a volume less that 2/2.5 time the size of the contained luns.
Bye
Da: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] Per conto di Willeke, Jochen Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 12.54 A: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
**********************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
**********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
________________________________
WINCOR NIXDORF International GmbH Sitz der Gesellschaft: Paderborn Registergericht Paderborn HRB 3507 Geschäftsführer: Eckard Heidloff (Vorsitzender), Stefan Auerbach, Dr. Jürgen Wunram Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Karl-Heinz Stiller Steuernummer: 339/5884/0020 - Ust-ID Nr.: DE812927716 - WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE44477193
Diese E-Mail enthält vertrauliche Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese E-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.
This e-mail may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
Certainly.
The question is though, how important is it to you to restore quickly? :)
________________________________
From: Matthew Zito [mailto:mzito@gridapp.com] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:17 AM To: Parisi, Justin; David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: R: Noob...
Even if it is a database, scheduled snapshots can still be useful, though it's better if the database is in hotbackup mode or whatever the non-Oracle equivalent is. A snapshot taken while the database is active is still valid, it's just that recovering to it is like the database state after a server crashes - you have to do media recovery, etc., and some transactions may have to be rolled back. Things like archive logs, etc. are perfectly valid in these scenarios as well.
Thanks,
Matt
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Parisi, Justin Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:52 AM To: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: R: Noob...
David,
Keep in mind that snapshots will only grow if you delete files. So if your data incorporates a lot of deletes, then you need to take that into consideration.
If this is a database, you will want to quiesce the DB to snapshot it; if the data is simple text files, you can snap it on the fly using the volume snap schedules. Giacomo mentioned setting your snap sched to 0 0 0, but if you're not using Snapmanager or other 3rd party backups and this is not a database, you'll want to allow snapshots to take place on a schedule.
________________________________
From: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk [mailto:David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:33 AM To: Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: R: Noob...
thanks all for the excellent advice and pointers. I'll remove the snap reserve, I think the sizing is probably correct then.
The lun is mounted on a windows server that has snapdrive installed. The rate of change - varies from 3GB somedays to 80GB on others. The server runs a legacy app that uses an enormous 3.6 million flat text files (220GB), and the number of open files is in the 10,000's at any one time so it gets a battering.
Dave
Rullion Management Services Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 2797732.
"Milazzo Giacomo" G.Milazzo@sinergy.it Sent by: owner-toasters@mathworks.com
04/09/2008 14:06
To
"Willeke, Jochen" Jochen.Willeke@wincor-nixdorf.com, David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk, toasters@mathworks.com
cc
Subject
R: Noob...
A first answer came from Jochen and I've to add that if you have a volume that has to contain a LUN (that is, with NetApp, a file) the default snapshot reservation area of 20% (or less) must be removed, so the snap schedule. In your case
Filer> snap reserve vol_bond 0 Filer> snap sched vol_bond 0 0 0
This in case you use some software of Snapmanager suite (You did not tell us the usage of that lun) or the snapmirror snapshots will be placed in the active file system area having the necessary free space. Never size a volume less that 2/2.5 time the size of the contained luns.
Bye
Da: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] Per conto di Willeke, Jochen Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 12.54 A: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
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Oh sure - I typically recommend to anyone who will listen that they always run their Oracle databases with an archive_log_dest that is either on a different volume, on the local machine, or ideally both. Do at least nightly manual snapshots with putting the database in hotbackup mode, etc., and then take scheduled snapshots. Depending on your transaction volume, it could actually be much faster to recover from a scheduled snapshot an hour ago with the database active, than to recover from the scheduled snapshot at midnight and run many hours of archive logs. But then I also recommend using DataGuard wherever possible in Oracle environments too. Much better to have to make a judgement call about which recovery strategy is optimal in a failure situation than to not have enough options.
Thanks,
Matt
________________________________
From: Parisi, Justin [mailto:Justin.Parisi@netapp.com] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:21 AM To: Matthew Zito; David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: R: Noob...
Certainly.
The question is though, how important is it to you to restore quickly? :)
________________________________
From: Matthew Zito [mailto:mzito@gridapp.com] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:17 AM To: Parisi, Justin; David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: R: Noob...
Even if it is a database, scheduled snapshots can still be useful, though it's better if the database is in hotbackup mode or whatever the non-Oracle equivalent is. A snapshot taken while the database is active is still valid, it's just that recovering to it is like the database state after a server crashes - you have to do media recovery, etc., and some transactions may have to be rolled back. Things like archive logs, etc. are perfectly valid in these scenarios as well.
Thanks,
Matt
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Parisi, Justin Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:52 AM To: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: R: Noob...
David,
Keep in mind that snapshots will only grow if you delete files. So if your data incorporates a lot of deletes, then you need to take that into consideration.
If this is a database, you will want to quiesce the DB to snapshot it; if the data is simple text files, you can snap it on the fly using the volume snap schedules. Giacomo mentioned setting your snap sched to 0 0 0, but if you're not using Snapmanager or other 3rd party backups and this is not a database, you'll want to allow snapshots to take place on a schedule.
________________________________
From: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk [mailto:David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:33 AM To: Milazzo Giacomo Cc: Willeke, Jochen; owner-toasters@mathworks.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: R: Noob...
thanks all for the excellent advice and pointers. I'll remove the snap reserve, I think the sizing is probably correct then.
The lun is mounted on a windows server that has snapdrive installed. The rate of change - varies from 3GB somedays to 80GB on others. The server runs a legacy app that uses an enormous 3.6 million flat text files (220GB), and the number of open files is in the 10,000's at any one time so it gets a battering.
Dave
Rullion Management Services Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 2797732.
"Milazzo Giacomo" G.Milazzo@sinergy.it Sent by: owner-toasters@mathworks.com
04/09/2008 14:06
To
"Willeke, Jochen" Jochen.Willeke@wincor-nixdorf.com, David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk, toasters@mathworks.com
cc
Subject
R: Noob...
A first answer came from Jochen and I've to add that if you have a volume that has to contain a LUN (that is, with NetApp, a file) the default snapshot reservation area of 20% (or less) must be removed, so the snap schedule. In your case
Filer> snap reserve vol_bond 0 Filer> snap sched vol_bond 0 0 0
This in case you use some software of Snapmanager suite (You did not tell us the usage of that lun) or the snapmirror snapshots will be placed in the active file system area having the necessary free space. Never size a volume less that 2/2.5 time the size of the contained luns.
Bye
Da: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] Per conto di Willeke, Jochen Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 12.54 A: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
**********************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
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WINCOR NIXDORF International GmbH Sitz der Gesellschaft: Paderborn Registergericht Paderborn HRB 3507 Geschäftsführer: Eckard Heidloff (Vorsitzender), Stefan Auerbach, Dr. Jürgen Wunram Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Karl-Heinz Stiller Steuernummer: 339/5884/0020 - Ust-ID Nr.: DE812927716 - WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE44477193
Diese E-Mail enthält vertrauliche Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese E-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.
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Instead of snap sched vol_bond 0 0 0 you an use vol options vol_bond nosnap on ----- Original Message ----- From: Milazzo Giacomo To: Willeke, Jochen ; David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:06 AM Subject: R: Noob...
A first answer came from Jochen and I've to add that if you have a volume that has to contain a LUN (that is, with NetApp, a file) the default snapshot reservation area of 20% (or less) must be removed, so the snap schedule.
In your case
Filer> snap reserve vol_bond 0
Filer> snap sched vol_bond 0 0 0
This in case you use some software of Snapmanager suite (You did not tell us the usage of that lun) or the snapmirror snapshots will be placed in the active file system area having the necessary free space. Never size a volume less that 2/2.5 time the size of the contained luns.
Bye
Da: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] Per conto di Willeke, Jochen Inviato: giovedì 4 settembre 2008 12.54 A: David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk; toasters@mathworks.com Oggetto: RE: Noob...
Hi David,
as far as i can see, everything is as expected. When you have fractional_reserve set to 100 (%), as soon as you create snapshots on that volume, ontap will reserve 100% of the Luns size within the volume, to gurantee writes to complete successfully.
The maths show:
820GB * 0,8 (for snap reserve) = 656 GB
320GB Lun * 2 (for fractional reserve) = 640 GB
P = 640 / (656*100) = 97,56 %
Think ontap is doing some rounding, so 98% is correct.
Regards
Jochen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:04 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Noob...
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
**********************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
**********************************************************************
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WINCOR NIXDORF International GmbH Sitz der Gesellschaft: Paderborn Registergericht Paderborn HRB 3507 Geschäftsführer: Eckard Heidloff (Vorsitzender), Stefan Auerbach, Dr. Jürgen Wunram Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Karl-Heinz Stiller Steuernummer: 339/5884/0020 - Ust-ID Nr.: DE812927716 - WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE44477193
Diese E-Mail enthält vertrauliche Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese E-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.
This e-mail may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
Jochen is correct. With a fractional reserve of 100% taking the first snapshot allocates 100% of the lun size within the volume. If you are pretty sure that you won't need all of that fractional reserve you can always set your fractional reserve lower.
An important fact to remember and it took me a while to figure this out is that the fractional reserve is only used once all other space in the volume is used. So that 100% of space that a fractional reserve of 100 reserves in the volume is only used once all of your snap reserve and all other free space within the volume is used, even though it's allocated and taking up space. You can think of the fractional reserve as a guarantee that you will have writes to the lun even when the volume reaches 100% full. So in your current setup where the volume is telling you you are at 98%, you are, but you could reach 100% and everything would keep working fine. Writes to the lun would continue to succeed, etc.... You just wouldn't be able to take new snapshots. At that time, when the volume was 100% full and you were still writing to the lun, then you would be using the fractional reserve.
It's a bit confusing and it took me a while to wrap my head around it but the Netapp guide that finally brought it home for me is called: Thin Provisioning in a NetApp SAN or IP SAN Enterprise Environment
Good luck, Romeo
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 6:03 AM, David.Ashton@rullion.co.uk wrote:
Hi, please excuse my noobness, I've recently inherited a Netapp system or 3, I'm fairly new to SANs in general and netapp in particular. This isnt my full time gig (storage), its one thing amongst the 2 thousand other things I'm working on today, but I allocate a fair amount of time to figuring this stuff out.
I'm struggling with something I'm sure all netapp storage people go through, I've read the manuals, I've played around for about 6 months on the filers and I cant answer this.
I have a FAS3020. I have a volume, lets call it vol_bond. Its 820GB, 20% snap reserve. It contains one lun, which is 320GB. The space guarantee is volume, and fractional reserve is 100.
Currently, there are 5 snapshots, totalling 8GB. It is snap mirrored to another filer. Snapshots are created nightly, there are no problems with that. At weekends, after various backup activity, these grow to about 80GB, but we only keep 5 and they're deleted.
Its all up and running, everythings fine.
Except for the filer status which reports: /vol/vol_bond is full (using or reserving 98% of space and 0% of inodes, using 49% of reserve) and the df -r output is
/vol/vol_bondv8/ 687865856 670681368 17184488 335194536 /vol/vol_bondv8/ /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot 171966464 14140040 157826424 0 /vol/vol_bondv8/.snapshot
What am I missing? I thought I had this thing nailed but obviously not.
Dave Ashton
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may also be privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you must take no action as a result of receiving it, including, but not limited to copying, distributing and amending it. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately and do not show the communication to any other party.
Rullion shall have no liability whatsoever in respect of the content of the communication and makes no warranty as to accuracy. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
Viruses:- Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________
-
Bill Holland -
David.Ashton＠rullion.co.uk -
Glenn Walker -
Matthew Zito -
Milazzo Giacomo -
Parisi, Justin -
Romeo Theriault -
Willeke, Jochen