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RE: Can you not recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp?
by Traitel, Eyal 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Jan, I am sure this trick is not supported officially by Legato/Veritas/others, but this has been used successfully, and is VERY easy to do: Just edit /etc/hosts file on your Legato host to point the need-to-be-recovered filer to the IP of the one that's replacement. As NDMP doesn't really care about that, as long as the restore path is fine... Eyal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Holland Office Center Kruisweg 799b 2132 NG, Hoofddorp The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Email: eyal(a)netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Schepers, Jan [mailto:Jan.Schepers@nl.origin-it.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:45 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Can you not recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp? Hello list, possibly you read the following line in the Legato's Networker 6 SysAdminGuide The Networker Administrator Guide (6.0) shows in chapter 12 , the section on NDMP limitations the following : NetApp Computers and NDMP Keep in mind the following limitations when you use NDMP and NetApp: * You cannot recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp. You can only recover data to the original host. Does this mean that my faith fully daily made backups are worthless in case of a disaster? rgds, Yann

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Can you not recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp?
by Schepers, Jan 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Hello list, possibly you read the following line in the Legato's Networker 6 SysAdminGuide The Networker Administrator Guide (6.0) shows in chapter 12 , the section on NDMP limitations the following : NetApp Computers and NDMP Keep in mind the following limitations when you use NDMP and NetApp: * You cannot recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp. You can only recover data to the original host. Does this mean that my faith fully daily made backups are worthless in case of a disaster? rgds, Yann

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ndmpcopy patch -- "level i"
by Jeffrey Krueger 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Thanks to Bruce for posting his patch to NDMPcopy! Here's the one that we've been using and all the information we've collected about it. I've uploaded the following patch for ndmpcopy to ftp.ndmp.org in addition to attaching it to this e-mail. Please read the entire mail before attempting to apply the patch or use the functionality it provides. ---------------- WHAT DOES IT DO? ---------------- This is a very small, straight-forward patch that will enable ndmpcopy to make an indefinite number of incremental copies of data. The ability to do this was not included in ndmpcopy, but was a part of jndmpcopy - the Java version of ndmpcopy. The feature is used by passing the command-line argument "-level i" to ndmpcopy once the patch is compiled in. The incremental feature is very useful for migrating a directory from one filer/volume to another. It allows you to make an initial copy and then perform periodical incremental updates of the changes until a cut-over period. During the cut-over period, you can make the source read-only or unaccessible and perform a final incremental copy while updating clients to point at the new location. Without "level i", you can only do 9 incremental copies (level 1-9). With this enhancement, you can do as many incremental copies as you need. ----------------- HOW DOES IT WORK? ----------------- Our analysis of jndmpcopy showed that this feature was driven by simply replacing the NDMP environment variable "LEVEL" which is normally set to a number 0-9, with the NDMP environment variable "REPLICATE" and a value of "y". Again, this action is triggered in the patch by specifying "-level i" on the command line. Normally, ndmpcopy gives the following output near the beginning of a copy: disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of this level 0 dump: Tue Apr 17 14:22:43 2001. disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch. When using the "-level i" option, that output will look like this: disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of this replication dump: Tue Apr 17 14:24:45 2001. disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of this last update : the epoch. It adds a line to /etc/dumpdates for the directory you copied which contains "i" for the level. Presumably this shouldn't be messed with as it keeps track of what the next level "i" for that directory needs to copy. I also assume that this means you can't do a level "i" of /qtree from filerA to filerB, then do another one from filerA to filerC, then back to filerB again. This works like a dandy for us running Data ONTAP 5.3.4R3P2 and 5.3.7R3. ------- CAVEATS ------- o USE THIS PATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK! The patch isn't supported by myself, my company, or NetApp. Before using this feature, you should have a fair understanding of C programming and a good understanding of how NetApp filers work, especially with NDMP. o I'm unsure what versions of ONTAP support the "REPLICATE" NDMP environment variable. So far I can't find any documentation of this, although jndmpcopy eludes to it working with ONTAP 5.3 and higher. Maybe someone from NetApp can chime in here? o Level i copies will *not* work with level 0-9 copies of the same source and destination. That is, you cannot do a "-level 0" ndmpcopy to move data initially, then use "-level i" to make updates. For that matter, you can't use any other method to do the initial copy such as "vol copy", dump/restore, rsync, etc. If you want to use "-level i" at all, you must use it to do the initial copy and all updates. o Don't modify the destination until you're done updating it. Once the destination is modified, another "level i" will likely *not* be able to update that destination. o Be aware of "level i" entries in /etc/dumpdates! Don't delete a "level i" entry for a source if you still want to be able to do further updates to the same destination. Conversely, if you're done using this method to move a directory, and want to use it again on the same source (or a source which eventually has the same name) to a different (new, blank) destination, you'll have to remove the "level i" entry out of /etc/dumpdates for the source directory. Also, don't try to perform "level i" copies of the same source to multiple destinations. -------------------- HOW DO I INSTALL IT? -------------------- There are two separate patches attached, one for version 1.1 and one for 1.2 of ndmpcopy (they vary only slightly because of the usage statement). If you are new to patching the following instructions may help you. 1) Copy the patch into the base directory of ndmpcopy. ex. % cp ndmpcopy-level_i.patch ~/ndmpcopy-1.1 2) Enter the base directory of ndmpcopy. ex. % cd ~/ndmpcopy-1.1 3) Patch the source (example uses GNU patch) ex. % patch -p 1 -b -z .orig -i ndmpcopy_1.1-level_i.patch 4) Build the package ex. % make clean; make -------------------------------- ANYTHING ELSE, JEFF-THE-WINDBAG? -------------------------------- The contribution of this patch to the NetApp/NDMP community is intended to help folks out with administering their filers. This feature is pretty handy for migrating data between filers and/or volumes. Although I'm not offering any support of this patch, I am interested in any feedback regarding it so that it can be improved for everyone's benefit. In particular, I'm looking for: o NetApp/NDMP official information about the REPLICATE variable - versions of ONTAP it can be used with, confirmation of the identified caveats, etc. o User's experiences with the feature - does it work, does it fail, under what circumstances, etc. o Programming tips - suggestions for improving the patch. Also, I will be posting this along with this information in this e-mail and any feedback I get to my personal website. The URL will be posted in a follow-up mail in a few weeks. Good luck! -- Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 NetApp Filers / UNIX Infrastructure Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com

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Re: How would you respond to this
by Quentin Fennessy 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Barry wrote> > This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a > company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low > performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is > reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant > misrepresentation of a competitors product? I've run into similar situations. I politely and strongly told the messenger who delivered such a message that this marketing tactic is unacceptable. In my most recent incident I told the salesperson that if I ever received such material from them again I would call the Sales VP and require that I work with someone else from their company. In that incident I never forced the salesperson to admit that he wrote the FUD document that I objected to. He indirectly admitted it, and I've seen nothing similar from him. The most powerful weapon you have to deal with this is your attention. If you ignore a salesperson and tell his/her management why, they will be dinged for it. Of course, your influence is factored by how much money you have spent in the past with them, and the likely purchase you could make. If all you have to spend is $20K then they can blow you off easily. (I'm not saying this is your case) Don't get upset over this sign of weakness on the vendors part. It's not worth it. Stupid, small and evil people will always be with us. -- Quentin Fennessy Quentin.Fennessy(a)amd.com Office: 512.602.3873 Cell: 512.694.7489

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RE:
by Fox, Adam 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

It should. Read up on how symlinks affect CIFS if that affects you, but for NFS, it works just fine. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com -----Original Message----- From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:PMAGLINGER@scvl.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 5:00 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: We're running a 740 with Ontap 5.3.7R2. Will it accept a UNIX LN command, specifically: ln -s source_path dest_path Thank you. Have a prosperous and profitable day! _____ Paul Maglinger, A+, CA, CET, MCSE PC Specialist Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com <mailto:pmaglinger@scvl.com> _____

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Mike Sphar 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Ah, good. That's what I assumed since a RAID 0 solution didn't seem to make sense for what the F85 was designed for and, of course, I was far too lazy to look it up myself. You know, of all the things in that original email that were "subjective", stuff about expandability and the quality of support, etc. I could accept a salesperson being shifty about claims in those areas. Our support is better than theirs, we're faster, more reliable, yadda yadda yadda. But to make such a blatantly false claim about something that is a demonstrable fact. Like I said before, that would tick me off more than anything else, and I likely wouldn't deal with that company afterwards. At the very least, I would insist on a new sales rep. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:15 PM To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'Barry Lustig'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: How would you respond to this Finally, does the F85 really use RAID 0? If so, it's true that it's not as failure proof, but then if the model was designed for RAID 0, then it's simply not targeted at the same market as a redundant RAID unit. If capacity and performance are far more important to you then redundancy, then RAID 0 is the way to go. (Though as I said, I'd be surprised if it really was RAID 0. If it's not, then a blatant lie like that would immediately turn me off to any vendor.) --- Since nobody else has responded..I'll step in. The F85 enjoys the FULL and complete feature set of WAFL and its engineering around RAID4 to do its work quickly, quietly, and with outstanding performance compared to any other filesystem or features the competition can throw at us.

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Phillips, Steve 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Just a quick note on the statement below: The F85 supports RAID-4 only, as do all other products running Data ONTAP. I/we consider this a good thing. :) ------------------------------------------------------- Finally, does the F85 really use RAID 0? If so, it's true that it's not as failure proof, but then if the model was designed for RAID 0, then it's simply not targeted at the same market as a redundant RAID unit. If capacity and performance are far more important to you then redundancy, then RAID 0 is the way to go. (Though as I said, I'd be surprised if it really was RAID 0. If it's not, then a blatant lie like that would immediately turn me off to any vendor.)

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F85 RAID Level
by Clouthier,Ron 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

Let me set the story straight. I am the product manager for the F85 and as such I can tell you that the F85 utilizes RAID 4. Ron Clouthier Product Marketing Manager Network Appliance (408) 822 6485

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Mohler, Jeff 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

Finally, does the F85 really use RAID 0? If so, it's true that it's not as failure proof, but then if the model was designed for RAID 0, then it's simply not targeted at the same market as a redundant RAID unit. If capacity and performance are far more important to you then redundancy, then RAID 0 is the way to go. (Though as I said, I'd be surprised if it really was RAID 0. If it's not, then a blatant lie like that would immediately turn me off to any vendor.) --- Since nobody else has responded..I'll step in. The F85 enjoys the FULL and complete feature set of WAFL and its engineering around RAID4 to do its work quickly, quietly, and with outstanding performance compared to any other filesystem or features the competition can throw at us.

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RE: migrating data between filers
by Fox, Adam 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

Not too many. Maybe these are obvious, maybe not, but I'll list them anyway. 1. You'll need a 2-disk root volume on your F840 and migrate to another volume. Remember the destination volume must be offline. 2. If you're F840 is running 6.x, the filer may revert your volume before it starts the transfer. This happens with SnapMirror, and may with vol copy. No big deal..just wait it out. 3. Make sure you turn off user access to the source before you start. Or at least make it read only. You don't want to have changes not propogate. Otherwise, go for it. I've moved lots of stuff this way. It works pretty well. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Leonard, Roger [mailto:Roger.Leonard@marconi.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:38 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: migrating data between filers > > > i am getting ready to migrate some data from 330's to an 840 > using volcopy. > has anyone done this out there and do you have > any recomendations and/or gotchas? >

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