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34F+ & 36F impact on snapmirror
by NicholosC＠maxis.net.my 22 Jun '01

22 Jun '01

All, Had an original F740 with two full shelves of 36F disks. Added a new F740 (for snapmirror purpose) with the same configuration but it came with the new 34F+ disks. Configured the new filer with the identical volume configuration for snapmirror. Original filer was running 5.3.7r3 while the new filer is running 6.1r1 because of the requirement of 34F+ disks. My issues are: (1) Anybody has the information on the "right-size" of the 34F+ disk? My understanding is that 36F has 34,500 KB. The yellow flyer says that 34F+ has lesser capacity but that does not help very much, how much lesser? (2) Because of the lesser capacity (I guess), the target volume can not be snapmirrored. I have to rearrange the volume configuration making the target volumes by one disk more than the source volume, only after that the snapmirror went through. The intention of the snapmirror is for disaster recovery. In the event that the source filer is not available, the target filer will be changed from snapmirrored status to regular volume. When the original source filer is ready for operation again, what is the best practice to move the data back? (3) Snapmirror back on the reverse direction would not work because now the original source filer volume is smaller than the original target volume. (4) Would vol copy falls into the same restriction of target volume has to be equal or larger? In my case, they could not be equal because of one is using 36F and the other is using 34F+. Thanks in advanced for your comments/suggestions. Nic

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SV: legato netapp client
by Christian Sønder 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

Hi Peter, We are using the legato netapp client on our filers, and have been doing it for a while - primarely because it then acts like any other client to our Legato Server. My expereience is a bit mixed - it's working allright, I can do redirectied recover of it's data or recover dirctly to the filer, my problem is 1) speed: It's attached to my LAN via a 100MBit full duplex interface, but I only get about 5MB/sek; Im not sure where the problem is, it's alot of small files so it can be on both the filer and the server .... but we are looking into it now :) 2) It's not being maintained in the future, our support tells us that NetApp is going to use NDMP instead :( Med venlig hilsen, Best regards Christian Sønder, System administrator TDC Internet (http://www.opasia.dk http://www.zillion.dk) Olof Palmes Alle 36, DK - 8200 Aarhus N, Denmark Tlf: +45 86 78 63 12, Fax +45 86 78 38 00 e-mail: mailto:chso@int.tele.dk -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Peter D. Gray [mailto:pdg@uow.edu.au] Sendt: 18. juni 2001 08:56 Til: toasters(a)mathworks.com Emne: legato netapp client It seems most people on this list are using NDMP for backup of their filers. However, I would like to avoid that if I can. Does anybody have expereience with the legato netapp client and does anybody know if that product is being maintained into the future? Regards, pdg -- See mail headers for contact information.

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RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ?
by Melvin, Grant 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

Hi, This is resolved in Data Ontap 6.x when we added Qtree metadata support to dump & restore which NDMPcopy utilizes. In 6.x the destination creates qtrees rather than directories. Sorry about the inconvenience guys. Cheers, Grant -----Original Message----- From: John Stoffel [mailto:stoffel@casc.com] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:08 AM To: Steve Losen Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? >> Actually, if your copying a qtree, ndmpcopy will preserve the qtree. If >> you're copying something within a qtree it won't. Steve> I used ndmpcopy -level 0 to copy an entire volume that Steve> contained over 20 qtrees to a newly created volume. When I was Steve> done, the target volume had normal directories in the place of Steve> the original qtrees, as indicated by the "qtree" command. DOT Steve> 5.3.7R2 I ran into this too on DOT 5.3.6?? when I used nmdpcopy. I had to pre-create the qtrees on the destination as well. John John Stoffel - Senior Unix Systems Administrator - Lucent Technologies stoffel(a)lucent.com - http://www.lucent.com - 978-952-7548

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RE: Microsoft Cluster Server and Netapps
by Watanabe, Steve 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

> From: Brian Tao [mailto:taob@risc.org] > > Is anyone using Netapps as a data storage backend for MSCS-aware > applications? I've read the white paper on SQL Server 7 and MSCS at > http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3084.html, but do those principles > apply to any clustered application? I read Microsoft's own MSCS FAQ, > and although it starts off saying it needs a shared storage backend, > it goes on to mention only shared SCSI devices... nothing about > FibreChannel or CIFS. It also needs a shared "quorum" disk, which > somehow allows MSCS to determine which servers in the cluster are down > (but the FAQ doesn't say how exactly the negotiation is done). > The quorum device is a disk that is accessible by any member of the cluster that can potentially "form" the cluster. When Microsoft says it is a shared device it means that it is accessible by > 1 node (e.g. shared scsi bus). It does not mean that the device is written to by multiple nodes at the same time (as only one node can online a disk at a time). The quorum device must support SCSI reserve, release, and bus reset commands. The basic algorithm for acquiring the quorum device is to do: o bus reset (which blows away any existing SCSI reservations) o wait TWO reassertion intervals o Try to reserve the quorum if successful then the node now owns the quorum if a reservation conflict error is returned then someone else owns the quorum and has reasserted the reservation. o If the ownership of the quorum was obtained then reassert the reservation every ONE reassertion interval This means that the owning node keeps the quorum by reasserting the reservation every, say, 1 second. A different node can determine if the owning node is still up (say there's a network partition and they cannot talk) by blowing away the reservation, waiting 2 seconds, and then attempting to do the reserve. If the owner is still up it will have reasserted the reservation. Note this is how MSCS worked in NT4; I'm not sure about W2K. -Steve

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RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ?
by Moore, Duncan 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

I have performed lab testing of baseline (initial) SnapMirror transfers over direct connected GigE and seen transfer rates exceed 1.3GB/min... roughly 78GB/hour... This testing was performed on an F85! Duncan -----Original Message----- From: FPS France [mailto:fpsfrance@fps.fr] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:20 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? Hi everyone, We are looking for a high rate migration operation which could let us move a volume from a disk shelf to another. In a first place, we think of using the vol copy command. We thaught we could easily manage a strong volume copy rate but it appeared the rate is buggy limited to 36Gb/hour (as if the Filer was copyinbg over a 'perfect' 10Bas-T interface) : http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=3.0.7295526.2875209& resource= In looking around we found papers dealing with others interface kinds : http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=3.0.7295507.2875209 The limit are 25GB/hr over 100Base-T interface, and 28GB/hr over FDDI so less than a 'perfect' 10Base-T interface. (on a F630 Filer :) Reasons given by the NetApp support is the CPU has a bunch of work in calculating optimizations of read and write operations. But I would be sure we are really not strunglled by any other limitations. So here are our two questions : - (just to be sure) did anyone succed in using the vol copy command once and go beyond these limits ? -what is your opinion about that alternative : plug the Filer on a private Giga-ethernet network and make a manual copy (copy -R mnt/nac/vol0 /other_place ) of the whole volume from a shelf to the other. Do you think we could obtain real high rate transfers while keeping the integrity of the volume ? (the volume is a root volume with the "/etc" directory), no special tricks needed (if I use Windows, may I expect ACL modifications) ? I thank you in advance.

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RE: Microsoft Cluster Server and Netapps
by Watanabe, Steve 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

> From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] > > "Watanabe, Steve" wrote: > > > > > From: Brian Tao [mailto:taob@risc.org] > > > > > > Is anyone using Netapps as a data storage backend for > MSCS-aware > > > applications? I've read the white paper on SQL Server 7 > and MSCS at > > > ... > > What about using a small shared SCSI drive for the quorum stuff and > using the toaster for the actual storage? > I don't recall if there is a resource DLL that support network drives. If so then your suggestion would work and the filer would exist nicely with MSCS. If there isn't a resource DLL then one could still use it with an application under the control of MSCS but the filer access (online, offline, etc) wouldn't be under MSCS control.

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User triggered autosupport
by Kennard, Dave M SSI-ISEL-31 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

Has anyone ever had a problem with manual autosupports? (filer> option autosupport.doit subject) If I do a manual autosupport from the box it hangs up and does not respond (NT Shares, Telnet, RSH) for about 5 to 10 minutes the only connection that works id the Serial / Console port then the filer comes back on the network by itself. Anyone seen anything like that before? I have an F840 running OnTAP 6.0.1r3 with only CIFS installed. Dave M. Kennard.

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Win2K Sync Question
by Honeycutt, Michael 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

Anyone noticed any problems with a Win2K Pro workstation trying to syncronize drives to a filer. I have an F840 running DOT6.1 and several people get sync errors. I noticed its only when trying to sync home drives on our filer, doesnt do when syncing to the NT servers. Thanks. Michael Honeycutt MCSE/A+ Systems Engineer IBM Global Services

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RE: Microsoft Cluster Server and Netapps
by White, Lance 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

Legato Cluster has supported NT4/W2K since 1998. Latest version does registry update monitoring. I've done this in an Active-Active mode, but it doesn take some careful thought in architecting the data patterns, might not be for the faint-at-heart. Lance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Tao [mailto:taob@risc.org] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:03 AM To: Jack Verdirame Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Microsoft Cluster Server and Netapps On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Jack Verdirame wrote: > > If you want a "free clustering service", if you consider buying > another machine and MS license Free, with a Active-Passive type > implementation go with MSCS. So MSCS does not support active-active clustering with shared storage and shared IP? The docs I've skimmed aren't particularly clear on this point. I do remember playing with a load balancing feature within W2K which would seem to work very well for a farm of IIS servers, all sharing content from a common filesystem on a Netapp. Probably won't work for SQL or Exchange though. > http://www.integratus.com/ are a good place to start. This looks interesting... Solaris, Linux and FreeBSD support (which is the bulk of the servers we run), but no NT/2K yet, unfortunately. Thanks for the pointer. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

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Microsoft Cluster Server and Netapps
by Brian Tao 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

First thing I'll say is that I know almost nothing about the way Windows NT or 2000 works, and when someone tries to explain it to me, I always wonder why a simpler and more direct UNIX-like approach wasn't used. But anyway... :) Is anyone using Netapps as a data storage backend for MSCS-aware applications? I've read the white paper on SQL Server 7 and MSCS at http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3084.html, but do those principles apply to any clustered application? I read Microsoft's own MSCS FAQ, and although it starts off saying it needs a shared storage backend, it goes on to mention only shared SCSI devices... nothing about FibreChannel or CIFS. It also needs a shared "quorum" disk, which somehow allows MSCS to determine which servers in the cluster are down (but the FAQ doesn't say how exactly the negotiation is done). More specifically, has anyone deployed the e-Assist suite of CRM applications on filer backends? The vendors says they use MSCS for clustering, and recommend local RAID storage for all the servers. Given that they say 35 dual-CPU servers are needed to handle 1000 users (ridiculous, but that's another story), I'm not particularly thrilled to have to maintain locally-attached storage for all of them, and I would rather take advantage of the existing pair of F740s. Hoping someone can help me differentiate conventional wisdom ("you can't run databases on NAS") from true wisdom ("sure you can, if you set things up right") when it comes to NT/2000 clustering... thanks. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

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