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13529 discussions

NDMPcopy without security
by Jeffrey Krueger 30 Jun '01

30 Jun '01

Does anyone know of an NDMP environment variable or other method to prevent NDMPcopy from restoring UNIX permissions or NTFS ACL's? We would like to migrate some data by first doing a full copy *with* ACL's, then substitute local group SID's on the destination, and finally resume incremental updates *without* updating our already "fixed" destination ACL's. The benefit of this approach is that SID substitution across a large qtree/volume could take a long period of time (hours/days). We'd rather do that pre-cutover when users are not impacted the during the actual migration when we make the source data read-only or inaccessible. Any ideas? The NDMP v3 spec doesn't mention any environment variables for this and I can't find any NetApp documentation on what NDMP environment variables they use and their purpose. Note: Our solution must be NDMPcopy based. Thanks! -- Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 Storage Lead (NAS/SAN) Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com

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replacement faceplate for F330?
by Bill Bradford 30 Jun '01

30 Jun '01

Anybody know where I can get a replacement faceplate and/or drive-bay cover for a F330? Even a yellow one off a 220 would work; just wanting something other than the tan/putty one on this preproduction/internal unit. bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

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F85 Vs 740
by Dion, Mark D 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

I'm a NetApp newbie looking for feedback from experience users of these boxes. I just ordered a F85, but because of non availability of F85's was offered a 740 instead. I'm not as concerned w/ scalability as I am w/ performance. The data that it will host is under a 100GB now and should grow much beyond 200GB. The F85 that I ordered has 12 36GB drives which I figure will leave me w/ ~280GB of usable space. There are 120 NT 4 workstations and a handful of UNIX boxes on this network. The majority of the data will be CIFS, some NFS and HTTP. I plan on moving all of the users home folders and shared data to the filer. The connectivity of the servers and filer will be at 100Mb and the workstations are at 10Mb. Any feedback would be appreciated. Mark

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rackmount kit parts
by Bill Bradford 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

Anybody know where I can get: 1. Rackmount slide kit for F330. I'd like to be able to properly mount this stuff. 8-) and 2. Rackmount braces/brackets for a DEC BA350 storageworks shelf ? Thanks. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

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F760 Cluster question when using ATM
by David Lockwood 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

I am trying to work out how to configure an F760 cluster and appear to be running out of slots. The main connection from the user community to the filer heads is via ATM, for a cluster I am told I need 2 ATM cards for each head in an active passive configuration, the passive connection taking on the identity of the 'failed' (heaven forbid) filer. Now, due to the number of disks required for data storage I need two FCAL loops per filer, 4 required in each head for failover. I need 1x 100Mbit ethernet connection to connect directly to a second cluster for mirroring and 2x 100Mbit direct connections to Unix servers for Oracle database access. The F760 has 9 slots. I can use slots as follows: Slot 1 Quad (or dual ethernet) Slots 2 and 3 for ATM Slots 4,6,7 for FCAL cards Slot 8 for Cluster Card Slot 9 for NVRAM It appears I cannot use Slot 5 for any type of card other than a connection to a tape device! Can I fail the ATM connection over to a 100Mbit ethernet slot, if I use a quad ethernet card then there would be a connection free. This would free up Slot 3 for the fourth FCAL card. Does anyone have any ideas on this and how we can get it all to fit. Before anyone suggests it the answer is no I cannot look at the 840's just yet! Thanks in advance David ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For further information on Benetton Formula 1 visit our web site at www.benettonf1.com. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please destroy and notify Benetton Formula on +44 1608678000." ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Oracle on NetApp - opinions/experiences requested
by Neil Stichbury 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

I'm one of a small team that supports a SUN6500 environment with Oracle 7 on a 760 Filer. The interface is dual Gigabit Ethernet fiber using round-robin. The cards are SBus and although performance is good we intend fitting PCI cards. Solaris 2.6 and 6.01 on the filer. Initially there were performance issues but the logfiles were moved to local disk (18GB mirror), Oracle tuned a bit and it goes like a rocket. Supporting approx 1400 users. Snapshots with hotbackup mean that availability is almost 24x7. Netapp whitepapers on 'Oracle on the filer' are a good starting point. Can't recall any 'negative' experiences actually !. Regards, Neil Stichbury gen-i Limited New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Kennedy [mailto:jlkennedy@amcc.com] Sent: Saturday, 23 June 2001 07:38 To: NDMP List Subject: Oracle on NetApp - opinions/experiences requested Of those who run Oracle on Netapp, how do you feel about it? I recently received an e-mail in which a Sun rep stated they gave up running Oracle on NetApp over a year ago. "Gave up" implies there were issues that were not easily overcome. According to NetApp, Ontap is "really a database file system". The technical specs on Ontap seem to back this up, but many people shy away from the idea. Granted, most of the people knocking the idea are other storage vendors or VAR's but some concern in the admin community I've spoken with revolve around NetApp being NAS and not DAFS or SAN. I'm looking for experiences, both positive and negative, from anyone doing this. Thanks. -- ===================== Jeff Kennedy Unix Administrator AMCC jlkennedy(a)amcc.com This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by MailMarshal http://www.gen-i.co.nz This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by MailMarshal http://www.gen-i.co.nz

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Re: [Veritas-bu] NDMP Restores
by W. Curtis Preston 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Grant, Thanks for the information. I'd like to comment on a few things. First, let me say that I am a fan of NDMP, as it is giving us a valid solution for backing up all these NetApps I keep seeing everywhere. ;) Before valid NDMP server and client software was in place, all we had was NFS. I have a lot of respect for NetApp and the other backup and recovery options you have (Snapshots, SnapMirror, etc.), but I would like this one issue addressed. At 11:45 AM 6/27/2001 -0700, Melvin, Grant wrote: > NetApp's dump is no stranger to this, we have added support > for qtree metadata, NT ACLs, Unicode, NT Streams. However, a > standard BSD restore compatible application such as Solaris' > ufsrestore can still restore the data, but will only restore > NFS attributes. So should you have zero filers in 10 years > (heaven forbid) and a pile of NDMP/dump tapes to restore from > then as long as you have access to a dump compatible restore > program you should be able to manually retrieve your data. The key for the original poster to understand is the word _manually_. This means that you can load the tape into a Solaris box (or any box that can read BSD dump, such as HP, AIX, Linux), do some manual tape manipulation, and be able to restore the data (without the NT-specific info). This is a far cry from being able to point and click your restores into existence. > Legato's BudTool product proved that NetApp data could be > restored on non-NetApp storage either in a disaster recovery > scenario or because that is what the customer wants. We'd like > to think that some if not all of the current 7 NDMP-compliant > backup software applications that support NetApp could add the > same capability. Yes, they could, and I wish they would. I wonder if some of us should just write a tool that does that? Hmmm.. Gears churning.... I wonder if we could figure out a way to feed these tapes to AMANDA, and have AMANDA automate the restores. Or just write our own utility... Hmm.... Anyone interested in this project? > Marion asks for a standard backup tape format that can be > interchanged between NDMP-compliant vendors and we applaud > her for it. However, that is beyond the current scope of the > NDMP community or the SNIA Backup working group in general. > > We think its going to take an awful lot of persuading to get > all the current backup software vendors to define a single > format and then have all the possible system vendors support > it. Most companies have chosen their solution based on > trying to differentiate themselves from all the others and > we see that continuing for some time. Yes, it would take some doing to accomplish that. However, we've got to start somewhere. My biggest issue with NDMP is that it allows the OS vendor (in this case NetApp) to determine the backup format. I understand that it would be a lot of work to get this accomplished, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. Trying to differentiate yourself in the backup world is a bad thing. (I submit for your perusal IRIX's XFSDUMP.) I'm glad to hear that NetApps tapes can at least be read by a dump-knowledgeable box. But you're not the only vendor out there. Yes, I know that it says right in the V5 spec that backup format is out of scope. Yes, I know that getting a bunch of vendors to get together is not an easy thing. But I'll keep saying that this should be in scope until somebody listens: OS-SPECIFIC BACKUP COMMANDS BAD I do wish that Veritas would make their multiplexed backup format a little more open, and make a command that can easily read a NetBackup multiplexed tape if NetBackup is dead, but at least their backup format is the same on every box. The idea of going back to the days when I had Solaris, HP, and Ultrix dump tapes, and 3B2 cpio tapes, and VAX backup tapes gives me chills. And, given the upcoming prominence of the NAS industry, we may have just that. (Assuming you're in a shop that has more than one NAS vendor.) That would stink. Anybody that agree with me, feel free to send a "me too" message. --- W. Curtis Preston Principal Consultant for Storage Designs, your storage experts Webmaster: http://www.backupcentral.com Phone: 760 653 1007

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RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ?
by Mohler, Jeff 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

Myself..I havent seen col copy/ndmpcopy/snapmirror do much over 18-22Mb/sec depending on platform. If I had a free hour Id love to go into my Lab and prove myself wrong, but I wont be able to until at least tomorrow if anyone is interested in some data between some 880s. -----Original Message----- From: Fox, Adam [mailto:Adam.Fox@netapp.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:46 PM To: 'FPS France'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? I guess I'm not sure what a 'perfect' 10BT connection speed is and so the comparisons confuse me. By my calculations: 10Mb 1MB 1GB 60s 60 min ---- ------- ------ ------- --------- = 4.39 GB/hr. 1s 8Mb 1024MB 1 min 1 hr This is 10BT at it's maximum throughput...not counting for protocols, etc. So let's look at 36 GB/hour using the same method: 36GB 1024 MB 8Mb 1 hr 1 min ----- ------------ ------ ------- ---------- = 81.92 Mb/s 1 hr 1 GB 1MB 60 min 60 sec So you're a little under a "perfect" 100BT from my calcuations. Not great, but not as bad as I read it to be..and 18X better than 10BT. If the purpose is to reduce downtime (perfectly resonable) then perhaps you need something that can do incremental changes instead of doing it in one shot. ndmpcopy can help. It's free and has incremental support even if it's a little slower, if you can reduce the size of your last incremental, it won't hurt as much if the data you are trying to move while you are down is smaller. SnapMirror is *great* for this. The only downside is it is not free. You'll need to work out a deal with your rep if you feel this is really the way you want to go. Just some thoughts. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: FPS France [mailto:fpsfrance@fps.fr] > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:20 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? > > > Hi everyone, > > We are looking for a high rate migration operation which > could let us move a > volume from a disk shelf to another. > In a first place, we think of using the vol copy command. We > thaught we > could easily manage a strong volume copy rate but it appeared > the rate is > buggy limited to 36Gb/hour (as if the Filer was copyinbg over > a 'perfect' > 10Bas-T interface) : > http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=3.0.72 95526.2875209& resource= In looking around we found papers dealing with others interface kinds : http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=3.0.7295507.2875209 The limit are 25GB/hr over 100Base-T interface, and 28GB/hr over FDDI so less than a 'perfect' 10Base-T interface. (on a F630 Filer :) Reasons given by the NetApp support is the CPU has a bunch of work in calculating optimizations of read and write operations. But I would be sure we are really not strunglled by any other limitations. So here are our two questions : - (just to be sure) did anyone succed in using the vol copy command once and go beyond these limits ? -what is your opinion about that alternative : plug the Filer on a private Giga-ethernet network and make a manual copy (copy -R mnt/nac/vol0 /other_place ) of the whole volume from a shelf to the other. Do you think we could obtain real high rate transfers while keeping the integrity of the volume ? (the volume is a root volume with the "/etc" directory), no special tricks needed (if I use Windows, may I expect ACL modifications) ? I thank you in advance.

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NAS Benchmarking
by Robert Mance 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

What are some of the favorite methods of benchmarking a NAS? -- Robert Mance robert(a)cinesite.com Manager of Technical Operations Cinesite Digital Studios 323-468-5711 (Work) 1017 N Las Palmas Ave., Suite 300 323-468-2180 (FAX) Hollywood, CA. 90038 213-391-7527 (Pager)

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RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ?
by Fox, Adam 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

I guess I'm not sure what a 'perfect' 10BT connection speed is and so the comparisons confuse me. By my calculations: 10Mb 1MB 1GB 60s 60 min ---- ------- ------ ------- --------- = 4.39 GB/hr. 1s 8Mb 1024MB 1 min 1 hr This is 10BT at it's maximum throughput...not counting for protocols, etc. So let's look at 36 GB/hour using the same method: 36GB 1024 MB 8Mb 1 hr 1 min ----- ------------ ------ ------- ---------- = 81.92 Mb/s 1 hr 1 GB 1MB 60 min 60 sec So you're a little under a "perfect" 100BT from my calcuations. Not great, but not as bad as I read it to be..and 18X better than 10BT. If the purpose is to reduce downtime (perfectly resonable) then perhaps you need something that can do incremental changes instead of doing it in one shot. ndmpcopy can help. It's free and has incremental support even if it's a little slower, if you can reduce the size of your last incremental, it won't hurt as much if the data you are trying to move while you are down is smaller. SnapMirror is *great* for this. The only downside is it is not free. You'll need to work out a deal with your rep if you feel this is really the way you want to go. Just some thoughts. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: FPS France [mailto:fpsfrance@fps.fr] > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:20 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? > > > Hi everyone, > > We are looking for a high rate migration operation which > could let us move a > volume from a disk shelf to another. > In a first place, we think of using the vol copy command. We > thaught we > could easily manage a strong volume copy rate but it appeared > the rate is > buggy limited to 36Gb/hour (as if the Filer was copyinbg over > a 'perfect' > 10Bas-T interface) : > http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=3.0.72 95526.2875209& resource= In looking around we found papers dealing with others interface kinds : http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=3.0.7295507.2875209 The limit are 25GB/hr over 100Base-T interface, and 28GB/hr over FDDI so less than a 'perfect' 10Base-T interface. (on a F630 Filer :) Reasons given by the NetApp support is the CPU has a bunch of work in calculating optimizations of read and write operations. But I would be sure we are really not strunglled by any other limitations. So here are our two questions : - (just to be sure) did anyone succed in using the vol copy command once and go beyond these limits ? -what is your opinion about that alternative : plug the Filer on a private Giga-ethernet network and make a manual copy (copy -R mnt/nac/vol0 /other_place ) of the whole volume from a shelf to the other. Do you think we could obtain real high rate transfers while keeping the integrity of the volume ? (the volume is a root volume with the "/etc" directory), no special tricks needed (if I use Windows, may I expect ACL modifications) ? I thank you in advance.

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