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RE: Performance Issues
by Art Hebert 22 Jan '02

22 Jan '02

Make sure your cards are on the 64bit bus not the 32bit bus. We moved our 100mb cards from the Netapp certified slots and doubled performance. art -----Original Message----- From: Noll, Kevin [mailto:kevin.noll@cgey.com] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:20 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Performance Issues I have the same problem. I have also tried ndmpcopy, and have found performance has increased, however not substantial enough to jump up and down for joy. We have added Gig patches to our solaris 2.6 installation. (Presumably ins olaris 2.8 the patches would be included. Flow control is set to full, No CRC errors. Full Duplex enabled. Gig Network running NFS Version3 with UDP and I could get better performance with Sun to Sun or /tmp to Netapp. Our Netapps are in cluster and combinations of large file transfer between volume to volume on the same Netapp or even volume to volume between Netapps in cluster gives poor performance. CPU utalisation is not over 20%. Our Gig cards are Version 3. Thanks Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Mike Carroll [mailto:mcarroll@chiaro.com] Sent: 21 January 2002 22:11 To: 'Rick Gardner'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Performance Issues If you use ndmpcopy provided from the now site, it will not copy your files across the network. basically like: ndmpcopy <filer_name>:/vol/vol0/test <filer_name>:/vol/shares/test Would copy from one volume to another without the network. The command also works copying between filers if you have more than one, that's why the hostname before the filenames. Search for ndmpcopy at the NOW site, it will help more!! Mike Carroll -----Original Message----- From: Rick Gardner [mailto:rgardner@westernelectronics.com] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:39 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Performance Issues Anyone seen this problem? I have performance problems when I copy large amounts of data between directories within the same volume on the NetApp. It is about 10 times faster to copy it back to my Sun box /tmp and then back to the filer.. I have a Cluster 820 with Gig NICs and the Sun box is a SunFire 280R, Solaris 8, with Gig NICs. No options with the mount commands. No CRC errors on the switch, NetApps, or Suns... Any ideas? Thanks! **************************************************************************** **************** " This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Cap Gemini Ernst & Young Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message ". **************************************************************************** ****************

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Are snapshots still available only per volume?
by Art Hebert 22 Jan '02

22 Jan '02

I have the need to snapshot just some directories and not the entire volume, have they made any progress in this area? Art Hebert Email: art(a)arzoon.com <mailto:art@arzoon.com> Arzoon IT Dept. Phone: 650 995-6125 Mobile: 650 444-8667

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RE: Performance Issues
by Noll, Kevin 22 Jan '02

22 Jan '02

I have the same problem. I have also tried ndmpcopy, and have found performance has increased, however not substantial enough to jump up and down for joy. We have added Gig patches to our solaris 2.6 installation. (Presumably in solaris 2.8 the patches would be included. Flow control is set to full, No CRC errors. Full Duplex enabled. Gig Network running NFS Version3 with UDP and I could get better performance with Sun to Sun or /tmp to Netapp. Our Netapps are in cluster and combinations of large file transfer between volume to volume on the same Netapp or even volume to volume between Netapps in cluster gives poor performance. CPU utalisation is not over 20%. Our Gig cards are Version 3. Thanks Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Mike Carroll [mailto:mcarroll@chiaro.com] Sent: 21 January 2002 22:11 To: 'Rick Gardner'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Performance Issues If you use ndmpcopy provided from the now site, it will not copy your files across the network. basically like: ndmpcopy <filer_name>:/vol/vol0/test <filer_name>:/vol/shares/test Would copy from one volume to another without the network. The command also works copying between filers if you have more than one, that's why the hostname before the filenames. Search for ndmpcopy at the NOW site, it will help more!! Mike Carroll -----Original Message----- From: Rick Gardner [mailto:rgardner@westernelectronics.com] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:39 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Performance Issues Anyone seen this problem? I have performance problems when I copy large amounts of data between directories within the same volume on the NetApp. It is about 10 times faster to copy it back to my Sun box /tmp and then back to the filer.. I have a Cluster 820 with Gig NICs and the Sun box is a SunFire 280R, Solaris 8, with Gig NICs. No options with the mount commands. No CRC errors on the switch, NetApps, or Suns... Any ideas? Thanks! ******************************************************************************************** " This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Cap Gemini Ernst & Young Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message ". ********************************************************************************************

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RE: Netapp alternatives
by Art Hebert 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Scott -- please explain how some are transferable and some aren't? Do you set this up before you buy the gear? Is it additional money? thanks art -----Original Message----- From: ScottUCE(a)aol.com [mailto:ScottUCE@aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:05 AM To: SRoche(a)datalink.com; joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com; pdg(a)uow.edu.au; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Netapp alternatives There ARE used NetApp systems with "used software" that CAN be re-sold, and NetApp itself will process the license transfer, free of charge, to the new owner. We have sold many of them ourselves, and NetApp has always cooperated fully. Yes, it is true that many NetApp systems do not have transferable licenses -- but many do. Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com *************************************************** In a message dated 1/21/2002 11:14:30 AM Central Standard Time, SRoche(a)datalink.com writes: This was taken off of Netapps web page regarding transferring licences. I think it speaks for itself as far a Netapps legal position. All Network Appliance software license terms and conditions specify a "license to use," therefore software cannot legally transfer from one owner to another. Anyone purchasing used hardware equipment must also purchase new software licenses directly either from Network Appliance or from an authorized Network Appliance reseller. Software includes all protocols as well as streaming licenses, Snap products, and other software. Anyone trying to sell you "used software" would be violating the terms of the license. Support contracts such as warranty and maintenance agreements are also non-transferable. -----Original Message----- From: ScottUCE(a)aol.com [mailto:ScottUCE@aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:09 AM To: joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com; pdg(a)uow.edu.au; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Netapp alternatives In a message dated 1/18/2002 4:06:48 PM Central Standard Time, joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com writes: but if you're just looking to save a few $, then I would suggest considering stepping down to an F810 or even F87 before ruling out NetApp on price (I may be reading too much into your post here). Hello, Joe: You don't necessarily have to "step down" to an F810 or F87 -- let alone abandon NetApp altogether for Sun or Procom or Compaq -- to save money. There are great buys on a limited number of used NetApp filers available today -- F720s, F740s and F760s with transferable NFS, CIFS and even CLUSTER licenses. As such, I don't believe there is any reason a NAS user has to settle for a "non-NetApp" solution because of price. Regards, Scott Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com

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Re: Netapp alternatives
by Peter D. Gray 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Wow, this seems like an emotive issue. Just to make my position clear: 1) I like netapps (we have 2 filers and 3 caches). 2) I would not even be looking at other brands if the netapp solutions was not so expensive. Note 1: it is not just a few dollars, it is over double the price for the same storage and performance or the same price using older filers (F740's) at 1/4 the performance. This is significant money. Oh, and the procom solution is upgradable just by swapping the drives. The netapp solution REQUIRES a new head and of course that means new (expensive) software licenses. Note 2: some things about netapp p*ss me off. The software licensing scheme, the small number of configurations that they support etc. I know there are reasons for all these things but they still p*ss me off. Note 3: I still think the netapp solution will have the best reliability and support. But maybe I can live with a bit less reliability to save ~$150K. And thanks for all the people who replied with comments. The general consensus was that netapp is the rolls royce of filers, the veritas solution is interesting but very new and that procom is ok (although 1 person reported that they had seen problems with procom filers under load). Regards, pdg -- See mail headers for contact information.

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RE: Performance Issues
by Mike Carroll 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

If you use ndmpcopy provided from the now site, it will not copy your files across the network. basically like: ndmpcopy <filer_name>:/vol/vol0/test <filer_name>:/vol/shares/test Would copy from one volume to another without the network. The command also works copying between filers if you have more than one, that's why the hostname before the filenames. Search for ndmpcopy at the NOW site, it will help more!! Mike Carroll -----Original Message----- From: Rick Gardner [mailto:rgardner@westernelectronics.com] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:39 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Performance Issues Anyone seen this problem? I have performance problems when I copy large amounts of data between directories within the same volume on the NetApp. It is about 10 times faster to copy it back to my Sun box /tmp and then back to the filer.. I have a Cluster 820 with Gig NICs and the Sun box is a SunFire 280R, Solaris 8, with Gig NICs. No options with the mount commands. No CRC errors on the switch, NetApps, or Suns... Any ideas? Thanks! ----------------------------------------- (on Chiaro SMTP Relay) This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of Chiaro Networks, Ltd., and may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not one of the named recipient(s), or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete all copies from your system. Any other use, retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. ---------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Performance Issues
by Rick Gardner 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Sorry, I do not know what a CE card is, or how to tell if I have one. -----Original Message----- From: Jason S. Cash [mailto:cash@UDel.Edu] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:26 PM To: Rick Gardner Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Re: Performance Issues On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Rick Gardner wrote: > I have performance problems when I copy large amounts of data between > directories within the same volume on the NetApp. It is about 10 times > faster to copy it back to my Sun box /tmp and then back to the filer.. I > have a Cluster 820 with Gig NICs and the Sun box is a SunFire 280R, Solaris > 8, with Gig NICs. No options with the mount commands. Are these CE (casseni (sp?) cards? Jason > > No CRC errors on the switch, NetApps, or Suns... > > Any ideas? > > Thanks! > /* Jason S. Cash - Systems Programmer IT/Network and Systems Services University of Delaware, Newark Delaware e:cash@udel.edu v: 302-831-0461 */

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Performance Issues
by Rick Gardner 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Anyone seen this problem? I have performance problems when I copy large amounts of data between directories within the same volume on the NetApp. It is about 10 times faster to copy it back to my Sun box /tmp and then back to the filer.. I have a Cluster 820 with Gig NICs and the Sun box is a SunFire 280R, Solaris 8, with Gig NICs. No options with the mount commands. No CRC errors on the switch, NetApps, or Suns... Any ideas? Thanks!

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Re: Performance Issues
by jeff.mery＠ni.com 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Do a sysstat while copying the data and watch the CPU usage. We've found that when copying large amounts of data within a volume (or between volumes for that matter) that the filer becomes CPU bound and just can't move it any faster. J- --------------------------------------------------- "Allow me to extol the virtues of the Net Fairy, and of the fantastic dorks that make the nice packets go from here to there. Amen." TB (www.penny-arcade.com) --------------------------------------------------- |--------+----------------------------> | | Dale Gass | | | <dale(a)novamediasw.| | | com> | | | Sent by: | | | owner-toasters@mat| | | hworks.com | | | | | | | | | 01/21/2002 12:53 | | | PM | | | | |--------+----------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Rick Gardner <rgardner(a)westernelectronics.com> | | cc: "'toasters(a)mathworks.com'" <toasters(a)mathworks.com> | | Subject: Re: Performance Issues | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Rick Gardner wrote: Anyone seen this problem? I have performance problems when I copy large amounts of data between directories within the same volume on the NetApp. It is about 10 times faster to copy it back to my Sun box / tmp and then back to the filer.. I have a Cluster 820 with Gig NICs and the Sun box is a SunFire 280R, Solaris 8, with Gig NICs. No options with the mount commands. I have similar experiences with netapps. I often found it faster to copy over the network to a second machine (Linux, in my case), then copy it directly between two places in the same volume. Seems rather strange and disappointing... -dale No CRC errors on the switch, NetApps, or Suns... Any ideas? Thanks!

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Synchronicity on NetApp
by glennm＠latticesemi.com 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Does anyone here run Synchronicity on their NetApp? Any problems or performance issues? We are thinking of getting it here and want to be sure before we pay. F740 running OS 6.0.1R1 ************************************************************************* Glenn Marsh Lattice Semiconductor Corporation Unix Systems Administrator 5555 NE Moore Court CAD Engineering Hillsboro, Oregon 97124 glenn.marsh(a)latticesemi.com 503-268-8000 503-268-8136 phone - 503-268-8459 fax *************************************************************************

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