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RE: Shared Snapshot directory
by Benn, Paul 23 Feb '99

23 Feb '99

I just wanted to clarify that if a UNIX backup server is used, it must use NDMP. If a multiprotocol Filer is backed up as an NFS volume, all of the NTFS permissions will be lost. If an NT backup package is used, the NTFS permissions and the UNIX permissions are retained. WAFL also keeps an archive bit for UNIX files so that an NT package can perform incremental backups. Keep an eye out for my new document titled "How to Integrate a Network Appliance Filer into the Windows NT Backup Model." It should be posted soon at: http://www.netapp.com/technology/apps.html Here's a snippet from one of the sections: 5.2 Using Windows NT to Automate Snapshot Backup The process described in Section 5.1 can be automated using features that are built into the Windows NT operating system. The Windows NT "at" scheduling service (briefly described in Section 2.4) can be used in combination with the "rsh" command to do this. Before it will work though, some minor preparation to the filer and to Windows NT will need to be performed. First, using a text editor, edit the "etc\hosts.equiv" file on the filer. Add a line as follows: #Use the host name or IP address. #If a host name is used, ensure #that it also appears in the /etc/hosts file. #Note the capital 'A' host_name Administrator Alternatively, this can be done using the FilerView GUI from a web browser. Next, from the Services option in the Windows NT Control Panel, configure the "Schedule" service to start automatically using the "Administrator" account. Configuring a Service to Start Using a Particular User Account Once the filer and Windows NT have been setup, schedule a batch process using the Windows NT "at" command. The following batch file, which uses NT Backup, is included as a reference: REM In this example, 'filer5' will be used as the name of the filer REM The qtree is called 'qtmixed,' which resides on a single REM volume filer. The default volume name is vol0. REM REM Delete the snapshot created by the previous run of this process rsh filer5 -l root snap delete vol0 openfiles REM REM Turn off oplocks, telling clients to release the file rsh filer5 -l root qtree oplocks qtmixed disable REM REM Create a snapshot directory called openfiles rsh filer5 -l root snap create vol0 openfiles REM REM Re-enable oplocks rsh filer5 -l root qtree oplocks qtmixed enable REM REM Map a drive letter to the filer's root share net use f: \\filer5\c$ REM REM Run the backup command - in this example NTBackup. REM Notice that '~snapshot' is used instead of '.snapshot' start /normal /b ntbackup backup f:\dir\~snapshot\ /hc:on /t normal REM End of file The above batch file (less the last few lines, launching a backup command) could also be used as a pre-job process with almost any Windows NT backup package. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Quinlan [mailto:quinlan@transmeta.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 11:39 PM To: Patrick.Day.B(a)bayer.com Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Shared Snapshot directory Patrick Day B <Patrick.Day.B(a)bayer.com> writes: > This is kinda long, so i appologize ahead of time... You're an NT shop, eh? I really strongly recommend using the Unix dump/restore facilities built into Data ONTAP -- it's *much* faster, it takes much of the complication out of the process, it preserves both NT and Unix attributes, and it works. Also use a Unix backup server (Solaris is probably best). For backup software, we have pretty good results with BudTool. Anyway, I think the way to do what you're trying to do is this: - create a share of / (actually, any directory, but the example here is /) - prior to backup, create a named snapshot ("mybackup.<num>") (this is what effectively happens when using dump) - backup from /.snapshot/mybackup.<num> or /.snapshot/mybackup.<num>/dir, - after backup, remove the named snapshot This way, you don't have to worry about the backups changing out from under you, and the CIFS locking of shares shouldn't affect you. However, I really want to warn you away from this... IMO, these are the basic mistakes made when backing up NetApps (in order of most bad to least bad): 1. backup up over a network filesystem (NFS or CIFS) instead of dump/restore 2. backup using NT backup host instead of Unix 3. backup across network instead of directly attached SCSI jukebox 4. backup from scheduled snapshots instead of manual ones (or ones created automatically by dump) 5. backup using rsh instead of NDMP 6. (for sites with more than a few hundred GB) backup using non-scalable home-grown scripts instead of "real" backup software 7. lesser mistakes: small blocksize, too large or small of a tree in one dump, backing up during the day, etc. I'm sure our backup guru would have a few items to add. :-) - Dan

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Re: Nitech XRP1000 filer
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 23 Feb '99

23 Feb '99

On 02/22/99 18:41:25 you wrote: > > Has anyone used the XRP 1000? It's Nitech's "answer" to the >Netapp (the even mention Network Appliance specifically as the market >leader in network-attached storage, and that they compete with Netapp). > >http://www.nitech.com/online/Company/Storage/XRP_1000/body_xrp_1000.html I've never used one, but... I went to the URL. I laughed. I cried. I want to surf it again and again. The company provides virtually no background info on itself. No listing of who's at the helm. It looks like it's operating out of somebody's garage... of course, Netapp started the same way, but at least they had some sense to put together something professional. The white paper is told in a somewhat folksy style; clearly it was written by someone just rambling and without much experience. It contains several grammatical and spelling errors. The presentation still refers to Network Appliance, Inc. as Network Appliance Corporation, and even uses the old abbreviation NAC. The docs also from time to time mention a few filer details that this product doesn't suffer from, like single telnet sessions. All this leads me to believe that this is some guy who was once familiar with them and who decided he could compete, without really understanding the underlying software technologies. The product may be good, but I have little faith in the company. Sure, even Netapp was once a nobody, but they were a lot more professional and had a lot more going for them. Bruce

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RE: Fiber Channel filer failures
by Mohler, Jeff 23 Feb '99

23 Feb '99

Cisco routers do intake/output monitoring on the RSP cards. *grin* > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham C. Knight [SMTP:grahamk@ast.lmco.com] > Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 11:07 AM > To: Mohler, Jeff > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: Fiber Channel filer failures > > Mohler, Jeff wrote: > > > > For all concerned..I have all of my cabinets on temp SNMP > tracking, > > and the F760 (two heads 9 shelves) runs about 85deg at 6" below the top > of > > the cabinet. > > Would it be a real hassle to explain how this monitoring is done? > > Thx, > Graham

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RE: Fiber Channel filer failures
by Mohler, Jeff 22 Feb '99

22 Feb '99

> but i turned NIS off in > a fit of frustration a few weeks ago... --- Ive seen issues where if my corporate DNS server goes funky, the NA will just refuse to work with DNS at all. Even after the corporate DNS servers are back up and running well, nothing but a reboot will get the NA to resolve hostnames. Ive just entered all hosts..into the hosts file to get around this. I can turn CIFS on and off, it would be nice to be able to kick BIND in the ass too without a reboot.

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RE: Fiber Channel filer failures
by Mohler, Jeff 22 Feb '99

22 Feb '99

> Last week we had a fiber channel F760 completely crash and burn. Right > now > the system is in a state where it will serve data for 10 or 15 minutes > and then > it reports inconsistent parity errors and crashes. We will be sending it > to > Netapp for failure analysis. > Graham --- Im having a lot of the same errors. I have used two different heads and get the same errors. After enough nasty deaths, I had to boot from floppy and download the OS again because what was on the first drive was trash. We've swapped system boards, and cables. The system has been stable since doing two things. I swapped out the OEM RAM with the replacement RAM I was proactively sent that Im told could cause FC problems, and I upgraded OS to 5.1.2.R3P1 (I belive it was). I still got errors after upgrading the OS, but since replacing the RAM the system has been rocl solid (crosses toes). But since a majority of my errors were from the first shelf, I have a replacement shelf to install either the next time the system crashes, or late this week before my RMA window closes. I might add that Benjamin and Dave Z. were -extremely- helpful with this problem, Ben had to drop off for some other problems, and Dave was able to pick this up and run fast with it. Kudos!

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RE: Fiber Channel filer failures
by Mohler, Jeff 22 Feb '99

22 Feb '99

For all concerned..I have all of my cabinets on temp SNMP tracking, and the F760 (two heads 9 shelves) runs about 85deg at 6" below the top of the cabinet. I should be getting my ventilated back-doors this week to help bring that down. NO alarms so far.

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RE: Fiber Channel filer failures
by Mohler, Jeff 22 Feb '99

22 Feb '99

Ok..now I feel stupid for three small posts in a row. NA Support had me make sure, that I had a minimum of 3A available on my power to the shelves, they have a cheat sheet on resolving FC errors, and low/brown power is on the list. Ask your helpdesk rep for more information.

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Fiber Channel filer failures
by Graham Knight 22 Feb '99

22 Feb '99

Last week we had a fiber channel F760 completely crash and burn. Right now the system is in a state where it will serve data for 10 or 15 minutes and then it reports inconsistent parity errors and crashes. We will be sending it to Netapp for failure analysis. That was a nightmare to say the least - and, of course, it happened while i was on vacation. (My first thought was that somebody was mad at me for flaming about the disk firmware thing and decided to take it out on me personally - yikes - i swear off flaming for the rest of my life). Anyway, last night another of our filers crashed with the same type of errors. This is an F630 with FC disks. I called NetApp - just got off the phone with them - they are looking into it, but before i lose another filer i thought i'd bounce this one off of the user community. These are the types of errors it spits out: Sun Feb 21 04:22:00 MST [isp2100_main]: isp2100_error_proc: dev 8.11 (0.11) data underrun (cmd opcode 0x28) ( 0x0 0x5c28 0x8000 ) Sun Feb 21 04:22:00 MST [isp2100_main]: Disk 8.11: Data underrun (0xfffffc0000c204f0,0x28,0) a few of those then a few of these: Sun Feb 21 04:22:00 MST [raid_stripe_owner]: Inconsistent parity on volume vol0, RAID group 2, stripe #377824. Sun Feb 21 04:22:00 MST [raid_stripe_owner]: Rewriting bad parity block on volume vol0, RAID group 2, stripe #377824. Then: Sun Feb 21 04:23:22 MST [edm_admin]: No valid paths to Enclosure Services in shelf 2 on ha 8. Sun Feb 21 04:23:22 MST [raid_stripe_owner]: Inconsistent parity on volume vol0, RAID group 2, stripe #377861. Sun Feb 21 04:23:22 MST [raid_stripe_owner]: Out of messages; cannot dump contents of inconsistent stripe. Sun Feb 21 04:24:00 MST [edm_admin]: No valid paths to Enclosure Services in shelf 3 on ha 8. Sun Feb 21 11:30:36 GMT [rc]: de_main: e10 : Link up. Sun Feb 21 04:30:37 MST [rc]: saving 44M to /etc/crash/core.0.nz ("wafl_check_vbns: vbn too big") Netapp thinks the previous failure may have been due to heat in the computer room - BUT - the filer *never* spit out any thermal warnings - I'm not too sure if i believe that heat was the culprit - i can run it for hours doing disk scrubs, but as soon as i use it for NIS it crashes. This system is in a different room and has a beter ventilated cabinet - again, no thermal warnings in the messages file - but maybe the thermal warning messages don't work? Just out of curiosity - has anyone ever seen a FC system spit out a thermal warning?? (5.1.2P2) Has anyone experienced these types of problem with FC filers? I've never had a problem with SCSI filers - but these FC ones just seem flaky to me.... Thanks for any insight anyone can lend... Graham

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Re: Recovered error messages no longer logged in 5.1.2R3
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 20 Feb '99

20 Feb '99

On 02/18/99 17:44:54 you wrote: > >> Does anyone else have an interest in having the flexibility of including >> soft error messages in the log files or is there a general consensus >> that they are unnecessary. We're trying to get support from other users >> for making the toggle available. > >Yes, I would like to have the toggle as well. In the first place, I would >like those messages to remain in the log file (I have not upgraded to 5.1 >yet but plan to do so next month). We have prevented disk crashes by >monitoring them. The toggle *should* already be in place. The messages should be logged at the syslog DEBUG level. If you specify a higher level, you shouldn't see them. One argument against this is there's a lot of other junk that can get logged at the DEBUG level. All this means is that some priorities need to be reorganized, and an acceptable default level found. Or you could break them up through useful facility designations. And simply inform old customers who may have turned on DEBUG just for these messages what the recommendation is for the new version. You don't see me criticizing netapp often, but I will here. They sometimes seem to bow to pressure to remove informational messages and options useful to "power users" in order to reduce the load on their support staff and keep up the appearance of simplicity. This seems to be what happened here. I also think it's pretty poor of them to make the change without telling their customers (was it documented?), or without even asking if that's what their customers wanted. Bruce

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F740 performance: rule of thumbs?
by Todd C. Merrill 20 Feb '99

20 Feb '99

Our new F740 has a pretty constant load (`sysstat 10`) thusly: CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape kB/s Cache in out read write read write age 46% 1114 1131 0 512 1331 701 371 0 0 5 53% 1559 1316 0 595 1615 446 387 0 0 6 50% 1343 1275 0 596 1211 489 464 0 0 5 48% 1454 1283 0 544 1272 276 395 0 0 6 52% 1844 1275 0 651 1837 280 320 0 0 6 58% 1399 1551 0 1027 2787 1037 450 0 0 6 56% 1796 1351 0 763 1541 352 378 0 0 6 45% 1024 1349 0 620 1422 330 542 0 0 6 58% 1657 1353 0 1193 2991 620 754 0 0 6 51% 1171 1467 0 598 1424 272 453 0 0 6 with occasional (every 5-10 minutes) sustained peaks of: 77% 1242 1201 0 489 1731 5285 5049 0 0 6 81% 1497 1279 0 600 2048 4327 5026 0 0 5 78% 1495 1221 0 563 1589 4287 5488 0 0 4 76% 1229 1213 0 472 1795 4546 5262 0 0 3 81% 1467 1150 0 1345 2634 3683 5746 0 0 2 80% 969 1068 0 397 2051 3876 6298 0 0 2 91% 1049 905 0 384 1102 1230 10622 0 0 2 92% 1328 942 0 448 1801 1536 10336 0 0 2 Are there any rules of thumb about when I should start worrying? I've got only about 2/3 of the data on it and the same fraction of clients connected to it that I need. The low cache numbers already worry me, but it's got the stated max of 1/2 GB. Max CPU and nfs-ops/sec I've seen is: 86% 3148 563 0 4228 5598 4131 3845 0 0 1 93% 4425 452 0 3573 4503 3283 3977 0 0 1 92% 3320 437 0 6299 4711 3778 5573 0 0 1 95% 3827 552 0 5282 5195 4094 5663 0 0 1 at which point I imagine the robot from "Lost In Space" coming out flailing its arms, if there existed the option "danger.will_robinson on". (Basic config is two 7 drive shelves of 18 GB FC-AL disks in a single RAID group with one spare and one volume and a quad 100 Mb/s board trunked into a 400 Mb/s fd pipe to the switch. I think I overspec'ed the network connection, though I have seen Net kB in and out burst and exceed 10,000 each, almost the limit of a single 100 Mb/s pipe). Until next time... Todd C. Merrill The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7792 24 Prime Park Way, Natick, MA 01760-1500 508-647-7012 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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