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Re: Any comments on emergin SANS technology...
by jrg＠acm.org 17 Mar '99

17 Mar '99

On Tue 16 Mar, 1999, mds(a)gbnet.net (mark) wrote: >To an extent filer clusters are SAN's. I personally think NAS is superior >to SANs architecturally, even if NAS's use SAN's. indeedy - the big problem all the plain SAN kit seems to suffer from is that a filesystem belongs to only one of the hosts, can only be intepreted by a subset anyway (eg only NT boxes grok NTFS, only SGI's grok XFS) and doesn't expect to be shared or be sharing with anyone else ('Hey! The link-count on that directory in that local read-only filesystem just changed. Oops.' *BANG*). Enter NFS (or AFS, DFS, Coda..) and systems that are designed to share their filesystems with others. >One day we'll have a network for network traffic, another for disk >traffic, another for backup traffic, another for montoring/maintenance >traffic, and some bright spark will come along and say 'We could do all >this with one proper network!' and I'll just shake my head and cry. > >8) I still say that I don't want to have to worry about lots of different networks! :-p (Or was I arguing to keep them seperate last time? I forget...) James.

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syslog
by Todd C. Merrill 17 Mar '99

17 Mar '99

Is there any way to get syslog to log not only a telnet connection (default): Sun Mar 14 11:45:35 EST [tn_login_0]: Login from host: hostname but also rsh connections and the command that was executed? file:/..../5_2_1-cd/ontap/5_2_1/doc/html/sag/routin12.htm file:/..../5_2_1-cd/ontap/5_2_1/doc/html/man/index.htm Out of the box, there isn't an etc/syslog.conf file, only a sample one. It appears to be logging: *.info /etc/messages at least. What else? I think what I want is: daemon.* /etc/messages But if I create a new syslog.conf file with just those two, what other "default" selectors will I be missing? How do I "kick" ONTAP to start using a new syslog.conf file? "Reboot the filer" is not an acceptable answer. ;) Until next time... Todd C. Merrill The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7792 24 Prime Park Way, Natick, MA 01760-1500 508-647-7012 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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Fwd: Fw: CIFS directory conversion of NFS created files
by Joan Pearson 17 Mar '99

17 Mar '99

Todd, Directories are converted to CIFS format the first time they are accessed from CIFS. There is no real need to preconvert any directory, but it doesn't hurt. Since snapshots are read-only, directories in snapshots cannot be converted. Access from CIFS to an unconverted directory in a snapshot will get an access denied error, as you have noticed. If NFS creates a directory and it is not accessed by CIFS before the nightly snapshot, that directory is unconverted in the snapshot and will not be accessible from CIFS. The is no "inheritance" of directory type. Directories are always created in non-CIFS format, independent of the type the parent directory. In current releases there is no way force creation of CIFS format directories. In 5.3, there will be an option to force creation of CIFS format directories. There will also be an option to convert a directory to CIFS format even when accessed by NFS. Joan Pearson >From: "Mark Muhlestein" <mmm(a)netapp.com> >To: "Joan Pearson" <jpearson(a)netapp.com> >Subject: Fw: CIFS directory conversion of NFS created files >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:32:20 -0800 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Todd C. Merrill <tmerrill(a)mathworks.com> >To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <toasters(a)mathworks.com> >Date: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 10:26 AM >Subject: CIFS directory conversion of NFS created files > > >> >>This from the docs for ontap 5.2.1: >> >>file://....5_2_1-cd/ontap/5_2_1/doc/html/sag/multi5.htm#1180418 >> >>Timing of directory conversion for CIFS access to NFS-created files >> >>[...] >> >>One-time access conversion >> >>If you add CIFS access to files that were created by NFS clients, the >>first time a directory is accessed through CIFS, the filer >>automatically converts it to the format required to support CIFS >>clients. "Accessed" here includes listing the contents of a directory; >>for example, with the File Manager, Explorer, or DOS dir command, or by >>accessing any files or directories contained in that directory. >> >>Under some circumstances, the CIFS client might automatically look at >>the directory's subdirectories, thereby triggering conversion of the >>subdirectories as well. (For example, this happens if the user has set >>the Expand All option under the File Manager Tree menu.) >> >>After a directory is converted, it does not have to be converted >>again. >> >> >> >>Here's my question(s): >> >>I have a directory on the filer root (at the level of etc) called "devel." >>Under that is a tree called "tree." A CIFS share is defined on "tree." >>Under "tree" is a bunch of other directories: >> >>devel/tree/{dir1,dir2,dir3,...dirN} >> >>When I first got the filer, I did a right-click:properties from an NT >>box on all directories dir1,dir2,...dirN in order to force the >>conversion process recursively. Things have been running smoothly. >> >>Until yesterday. The darn "access is denied" error message on the NT >>box is showing up again under the nightly snapshot for this tree on some >>directories. I suspect the directories are new, but have been renamed >>to previously named directories. (I.e., `mkdir new; mv dir old; mv new >>dir; rm -rf old` might have happened from an NFS mount). >> >>Question1: If I create a new directory devel/tree/dirnew and put some >>stuff in it, and no NT box access it before the nightly snapshot, this >>directory will give an "access denied" message to any NT box trying to >>access this directory from the snapshot, right? (I believe the answer >>is "yes" since this seems to jive with empirical data.) >> >>Question2: If I define a share at "devel" and then convert the entire >>*tree* directory, instead of dir1,dir2,...dirN, will any subsequent >>directory created under that tree (at the level devel/tree/dirnew) already >>automatically be converted, since its parent was? (This is kinda like the >>old SunOS subdirectories inheriting the group (?) owner of the parent.) >>(I think the answer is no, from FAQ#486). >> >>Question3: If the answer to #2 is no, is there another way to make this >>happen automagically? It seems reasonable, especially if a share is >>defined on any directory higher in the tree. >> >> Until next time... >> >>Todd C. Merrill >>The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7792 >>24 Prime Park Way, Natick, MA 01760-1500 508-647-7012 FAX >>tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com >>--- >> >> >> >

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Re: syslog
by mds＠gbnet.net 17 Mar '99

17 Mar '99

That's a good one, and one I've thought of asking about myself before now. On Wed 17 Mar, 1999, "Todd C. Merrill" <tmerrill(a)mathworks.com> wrote: > > Is there any way to get syslog to log not only a telnet connection (default): <stuff> > > but also rsh connections and the command that was executed? <morestuff>

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RE: syslog
by Hackworth, Brian 17 Mar '99

17 Mar '99

: Is there any way to get syslog to log not only a telnet : connection (default) but also rsh connections and the : command that was executed? The ONTAP rshd does not log successful logins, nor does it log the command that was executed. We're considering this feature for a future release. : Out of the box, there isn't an etc/syslog.conf file, : only a sample one. It appears to be logging: If there's no syslog.conf file, ONTAP uses the equivalent of *.info /dev/console *.info /etc/messages : How do I "kick" ONTAP to start using a new syslog.conf file? : "Reboot the filer" is not an acceptable answer. ;) No action is necessary. ONTAP notices the change and incorporates it automatically. - Brian Hackworth

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CIFS directory conversion of NFS created files
by Todd C. Merrill 17 Mar '99

17 Mar '99

This from the docs for ontap 5.2.1: file://....5_2_1-cd/ontap/5_2_1/doc/html/sag/multi5.htm#1180418 Timing of directory conversion for CIFS access to NFS-created files [...] One-time access conversion If you add CIFS access to files that were created by NFS clients, the first time a directory is accessed through CIFS, the filer automatically converts it to the format required to support CIFS clients. "Accessed" here includes listing the contents of a directory; for example, with the File Manager, Explorer, or DOS dir command, or by accessing any files or directories contained in that directory. Under some circumstances, the CIFS client might automatically look at the directory's subdirectories, thereby triggering conversion of the subdirectories as well. (For example, this happens if the user has set the Expand All option under the File Manager Tree menu.) After a directory is converted, it does not have to be converted again. Here's my question(s): I have a directory on the filer root (at the level of etc) called "devel." Under that is a tree called "tree." A CIFS share is defined on "tree." Under "tree" is a bunch of other directories: devel/tree/{dir1,dir2,dir3,...dirN} When I first got the filer, I did a right-click:properties from an NT box on all directories dir1,dir2,...dirN in order to force the conversion process recursively. Things have been running smoothly. Until yesterday. The darn "access is denied" error message on the NT box is showing up again under the nightly snapshot for this tree on some directories. I suspect the directories are new, but have been renamed to previously named directories. (I.e., `mkdir new; mv dir old; mv new dir; rm -rf old` might have happened from an NFS mount). Question1: If I create a new directory devel/tree/dirnew and put some stuff in it, and no NT box access it before the nightly snapshot, this directory will give an "access denied" message to any NT box trying to access this directory from the snapshot, right? (I believe the answer is "yes" since this seems to jive with empirical data.) Question2: If I define a share at "devel" and then convert the entire *tree* directory, instead of dir1,dir2,...dirN, will any subsequent directory created under that tree (at the level devel/tree/dirnew) already automatically be converted, since its parent was? (This is kinda like the old SunOS subdirectories inheriting the group (?) owner of the parent.) (I think the answer is no, from FAQ#486). Question3: If the answer to #2 is no, is there another way to make this happen automagically? It seems reasonable, especially if a share is defined on any directory higher in the tree. Until next time... Todd C. Merrill The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7792 24 Prime Park Way, Natick, MA 01760-1500 508-647-7012 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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RE: filer NFS to hp700 or alpha: client cache problem?
by Thomson, Michael (UK, GIS ISM Group for R&D) 17 Mar '99

17 Mar '99

Todd, Could I suggest you check the time synchronisation between your client box (doing the linking) and the Filer? In a previous life I found that 'make' and other tools ignore files if their creation dates are in the 'future', even if it's only a few seconds to a minute. I suspect that might explain why depending on how quickly you run the 'rm', only 2/3 or all the files vanish. Now, all together: "Please can we have Network Time Protocol support on our filer?" Cheers, Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd C. Merrill [SMTP:tmerrill@mathworks.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 10:43 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: filer NFS to hp700 or alpha: client cache problem? > > > We haven't narrowed down the problem entirely yet, but I'd thought I'd > ask anyway.... > > During a linking stage, in linking a bunch of .o files into a library > .a, the linker will grab about 2/3 of the files in a directory into the > archive, and that's it. A subsequent `rm` of *.o sometimes removes only > those exact 2/3 files, sometimes removes all of them, even though the > archive only has 2/3 of them in it. > > It seems as if the directory inode is only showing the oldest 2/3 of the > files, and depending on how long it takes the `ar` and `rm` commands to > execute, removes 2/3 or all of the files. > > I don't suspect it's the filer; watching an `ls` of the directory from > another machine (Solaris) shows all the files there. There are only > about 150 .o files to archive. > > Anyone aware of any client-side NFS caching problems with Alpha or HP700 > boxes? The HP is running HPUX10.20 and appears to be using only NFS V2; > the alpha is running Digital UNIX V4.0D and appears to be using only V3. > (NFS version from `nfsstat -h hostname` on the filer.) The filer is set > nfs.tcp.enable off, NetApp Release 5.2.1. > > Until next time... > > Todd C. Merrill > The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7792 > 24 Prime Park Way, Natick, MA 01760-1500 508-647-7012 FAX > tmerrill(a)mathworks.com > http://www.mathworks.com > ---

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Backups from DUMP command and snapshots
by Mike Ball 17 Mar '99

17 Mar '99

Questions Please understand I am a novice to the "dump" command when answering the following questions. Thank you for the help! 1) From what I understand running, a full backup with the "dump" command does not backup existing snapshots. Is this correct? 2) It looks like if you want to backup snapshots, you must backup a particular snapshot one at a time. Is this correct? 3) If I do a full restore (if the file system on the filer completely crashed) from a backup created by the "dump" command on the filer, it looks like I must first create the exact qtree structure which was previously on the filer before I can run the full restore. Is this correct?

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filer NFS to hp700 or alpha: client cache problem?
by Todd C. Merrill 17 Mar '99

17 Mar '99

We haven't narrowed down the problem entirely yet, but I'd thought I'd ask anyway.... During a linking stage, in linking a bunch of .o files into a library .a, the linker will grab about 2/3 of the files in a directory into the archive, and that's it. A subsequent `rm` of *.o sometimes removes only those exact 2/3 files, sometimes removes all of them, even though the archive only has 2/3 of them in it. It seems as if the directory inode is only showing the oldest 2/3 of the files, and depending on how long it takes the `ar` and `rm` commands to execute, removes 2/3 or all of the files. I don't suspect it's the filer; watching an `ls` of the directory from another machine (Solaris) shows all the files there. There are only about 150 .o files to archive. Anyone aware of any client-side NFS caching problems with Alpha or HP700 boxes? The HP is running HPUX10.20 and appears to be using only NFS V2; the alpha is running Digital UNIX V4.0D and appears to be using only V3. (NFS version from `nfsstat -h hostname` on the filer.) The filer is set nfs.tcp.enable off, NetApp Release 5.2.1. Until next time... Todd C. Merrill The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7792 24 Prime Park Way, Natick, MA 01760-1500 508-647-7012 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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RE: Etherchannel (was Re: NetApp/Auspex killer?)
by Mohler, Jeff 16 Mar '99

16 Mar '99

FYI here is what I have on EC on the NA. *heh* <<TRUNKING.html>> > -----Original Message----- > From: Bennett Todd [SMTP:bet@newritz.mordor.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 11:48 AM > To: tkaczma(a)gryf.net > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Etherchannel (was Re: NetApp/Auspex killer?) > > 1999-03-16-02:01:42 Tom: > > Speaking of EtherChannel or more generically Link Aggregation. Does > > anyone know a link describing it in quite a detail without going through > a > > complete protocol suite definition. > > Don't know of a link, would love to see one. But as I understand it, the > general strategy is that very roughly each side separately runs simple > algorithms to attempt to schmeer traffic over the multiple links. Often > the > algorithm is based on the MAC addrs of the two endpoints, and so won't > yield > over 100Mbps for any single link, but will hopefully (3 times out of 4) > place > competing high-volume connections on separate links. > > There are then hacks for failing over to another line when one link drops, > and > other border-condition exotica. > > But the basic idea is that given a large number of communication > endpoints, > you can schmear the traffic over multiple links quite cheaply. > > Dunno if this is any help to you. > > -Bennett

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