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RE: Future Newbie Needs Advice
by Sam Schorr 08 Mar '99

08 Mar '99

Russ, I don't have a conclusion yet, but I do have some progress. We replaced the disk shelves in the "older" filer and that allowed the new cluster partner F740 to recognize all the disk drives. However, for some unknown reason, the "older" filer is periodically halting with no error messages. The good news is that the cluster partner is immediately taking over and thus our customers do not see any failure (well, there may be a few who get a message about file access as the partner breaks the CIFS share). The bigger window for file errors is when we do a "giveback" as that must break all the CIFS shares first, and then reboot the filer that is being given back control. We have replace the ServerNet card in the "older" filer in the effort to stop the halts, but that has not done so. It begins to look like a motherboard replace, but Netapp has yet to give its opinion. I'll let you know the next installment of "As the Netapp Clusters". --srs -----Original Message----- From: Russ Amidon [mailto:amidon@pico.sps.mot.com] Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 11:06 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Future Newbie Needs Advice Thank you to all that took the time to answer my posting. It is nice to hear some positive responses when you are about to spend big bucks. I am particularlly interested in hearing the "conclusion" of Sam Schorr's Soap Opera about his experience with installation of cluster fail over. Thanks again, Russ Amidon > Subject: Future Newbie Needs Advice > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Md5: gJvzv996YOYYC+QpWeuraQ== > > Hello Everyone, > > I am about to purchase two F760's w/ Cluster Failover Software and Hardware > because we need a system that is 100% available and rock solid. I was convinced > after talking to other Net App users that this was the way to go. After a week > of reading this mailing list, I am no longer convinced. Does anyone out there > have the system I described? Are you happy with it? I am particularly concerned > about the fiber channel problems and all of the OS upgrades and patches. > > We are also considering the new Auspex NS2000. Does anyone know of an Auspex > mailing list like this one? > > Thank you in advance for any advise you can offer to the "future newbie". > > Russ Amidon > UNIX Sys Admin >

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Re: Future Newbie Needs Advice
by Russ Amidon 08 Mar '99

08 Mar '99

Thank you to all that took the time to answer my posting. It is nice to hear some positive responses when you are about to spend big bucks. I am particularlly interested in hearing the "conclusion" of Sam Schorr's Soap Opera about his experience with installation of cluster fail over. Thanks again, Russ Amidon > Subject: Future Newbie Needs Advice > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Md5: gJvzv996YOYYC+QpWeuraQ== > > Hello Everyone, > > I am about to purchase two F760's w/ Cluster Failover Software and Hardware > because we need a system that is 100% available and rock solid. I was convinced > after talking to other Net App users that this was the way to go. After a week > of reading this mailing list, I am no longer convinced. Does anyone out there > have the system I described? Are you happy with it? I am particularly concerned > about the fiber channel problems and all of the OS upgrades and patches. > > We are also considering the new Auspex NS2000. Does anyone know of an Auspex > mailing list like this one? > > Thank you in advance for any advise you can offer to the "future newbie". > > Russ Amidon > UNIX Sys Admin >

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What about this one? (DLT autoloader)
by Kathy Fischer 08 Mar '99

08 Mar '99

The DLT we've been looking at is the ATL L500 Library with 14 tape slots and one DLT7000 tape drive .... has anyone out there had any experience with this tape drive and the 720 filer? .... we really want to stick with DLT because we've already invested a fortune in tapes (we currently own a Quantum DLT4000)!!! Thanks for any/all help! Kathy Kathleen G. Fischer Research Systems, Inc. (303)413-3909 kfischer(a)rsinc.com

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Legato Networker backups summary
by Gregory M. Paris 08 Mar '99

08 Mar '99

Thanks all for your responses to my query about how to backup a NetApp with Legato Networker server on UNIX. The answer seems to be that such cannot be accomplished without losing the NT ACLs. I also received unofficial indications that the seemingly fabled Networker client for NetApp will be available in May. I presume that people who buy that product at that time will also become de facto beta testers, since nobody came forward to say they're running it now. I'm planning to roll out the new server in May. I can't specify hardware that I don't know for certain I can back up on May 1. Oh well.... Greg -- Gregory M. Paris CIS Engineering Systems Bose Corporation Email: paris(a)bose.com The Mountain Phone: +1 508 766-6080 Framingham, MA 01701-9168 FAX: +1 508 820-0173

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RE: Legato Networker backups
by Dane Jasper 08 Mar '99

08 Mar '99

Matthew, thanks much for the great summary. We're a growing enterprise with scattered backup solutions, and we're currently shopping for a consolidated solution. We need to back up the following - is Legato "the" solution for this? One NetApp with 30 gigs 15 Linux servers, 150 gigs 20 Linux stations, 40 gigs 1 NT server, 4 gigs 10 Assorted NT/95/98 stations, 20 gigs Will Legato do all of this? Is there another way? Is there some sort of Legato client for each of these machines? Thanks much for the info! -- Dane Jasper Sonic (707)522-1001 (33.6kbps) (707)522-1000 (Voice) mailto:support@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53 ----- Forwarded message from "Whitman, Matthew" <matt.whitman(a)netapp.com> ----- Greg, I will take a crack at answering this for you as a "guy in the know..". First things first; you are not the first to bring this up. As you may or may not know, NetApp wrote a protocol several years ago called NDMP which stands for Network Data Management Protocol, which allows for a "standard" that controls remote tape devices, storage pools, etc. Most every backup vendor signed on to support the protocol (Veritas, Intelliguard, BudTool, Seagate, CommVault, etc.) except Legato, who maintained the "superiority" of their proprietary system. There have been a large number of VERY big NetApp installs that have been pushing Legato to provide native NetApp or they would switch to another product. This led to the co-development of a Java-based Legato Networker client that will run directly on the Filer. The expected shipping date of this product is Q2/99. This product will be distributed, supported (and presumably sold) directly by Legato. But wait!! Things get EVEN better! On 1/28/99, Legato announced that they were acquiring Intelliguard Software: http://www.legato.com/press/PR200.html One of the main reasons cited for buying Intelliguard was the NDMP technology. EVEN BETTER!!!!!!!!! On 2/2/99, Legato announced that all Networker products will be NDMP compliant in Q3/99: http://www.legato.com/press/PR209.html With a big sigh of relief and a smile on their faces, NetApp customers and employees could give a hearty YAHOO!!! Now, the question was asked about keeping the CIFS attributes during backup; both of the methods above will allow this to happen. In current environments, backups need to be done by an NT machine running Networker, OR having a UNIX Networker server that backs up an NT machine with the Filer mounted on it. I hope that this helps. Regards, Matt Matt Whitman - Consulting Systems Engineer Network Appliance, Inc. www.netapp.com 2350 Mission College Blvd. Suite 900 Santa Clara, CA 95054 (408)367-3000 Corporate mattw(a)netapp.com - E-mail (408)987-5365 - Direct Dial (408)987-5364 - Fax -----Original Message----- From: Gregory M. Paris [mailto:paris@bose.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 12:26 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: paris(a)bose.com Subject: Legato Networker backups Dear Toasters, This is along the lines of the "Future Newbie" thread, though I'm not new to NetApp boxes. I am looking to get our first here at this company. We use Legato Networker to backup our Engineering systems, which I support. (We use HP's Omniback and a StorageTek tape library for our business systems, but that's another post....) The problem is, I'm not clear on how I'll backup an F740 (~180 GB) using Networker. I've read the "How to Integrate..." white paper on the NetApp site. I've read the ancient "Backing Up NetApp..." on the Legato site. Neither of those seem to address our situation: Networker server running on Solaris; NetApp server with NFS and CIFS. How do I? I can connect a Quantum DLT stacker to the NetApp, but can I make Legato use it? If not, how do I backup over the network, given that I want to preserve NT ACLs? The "How to Integrate..." document shows how to do this when Networker runs on an NT machine, but we have it on UNIX. I'm looking for a definitive answer, on the order of, "We do it here and it works great!" (along with the how-to, of course). I'm bucking the prevailing winds in trying to bring in a NetApp. Tiny issues like, "No proven way to back it up," could result in me supporting a new HP or Sun server. (Not that I don't use their equipment already, but the combination of RAID and NFS+CIFS is too much complexity on UNIX servers, IMHO.) All help is appreciated. Greg -- Gregory M. Paris CIS Engineering Systems Bose Corporation Email: paris(a)bose.com The Mountain Phone: +1 508 766-6080 Framingham, MA 01701-9168 FAX: +1 508 820-0173 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Dane Jasper Sonic (707)522-1001 (33.6kbps) (707)522-1000 (Voice) mailto:support@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53

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Does somebody have a problem with
by eyal traitel 08 Mar '99

08 Mar '99

Mentor Graphics / CheckMate? We would like to hear/share experiences. We have strange problem with some run which get stuck when working on NetApp mounted directory, and working when on regular Sun host. We have the problem only on Solaris 2.5.1, not on SunOS. Yours, Eyal Traitel Motorola Semiconductor Israel

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RE: Future Newbie Needs Advice
by Kirschner, Lewis 08 Mar '99

08 Mar '99

Graham, I run the reseller channel for NetApp in the Northeast so I know you'll probably take this as a biased comment. I'm frankly flabergasted. I have three reseller taht have installed more than 8 CF Filers and they're all rock solid!! I worked for Sun for 10+ years and never encounterred a product as solid as this. Lew Kirschner ------- NETWORK APPLIANCE ================================================================= FAST! SIMPLE! RELIABLE! MULTIPROTOCOL!! ***************************************************************** Lew Kirschner - Eastern Area V-Mail: 732 603 7330 Reseller Mgr (V-Mail Only) Network Appliance Reach #: 914-369-3830 35 Sagamore Avenue Fax #: 914-369-3832 Suffern, New York 10901 e-mail: lewisk(a)netapp.com http://www.netapp.com ***************************************************************** The Market Leader in Network Attached Storage for Multiprotocol Environments! -----Original Message----- From: Graham Knight [mailto:grahamk@ast.lmco.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 10:08 AM To: Russ Amidon Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Future Newbie Needs Advice Russ Amidon wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I am about to purchase two F760's w/ Cluster Failover Software and Hardware > because we need a system that is 100% available and rock solid. I was convinced > after talking to other Net App users that this was the way to go. After a week > of reading this mailing list, I am no longer convinced. Remember that people rarely post to tell about systems that never die. I've posted about problems we've had with 2 of our systems - you never hear about the other 35 that have been running without problems for years (including some with uptimes of over a year - and the last documented downtime being because of power failure in the building and UPS's running out of juice). It's a great list - just be careful how you intepret it :-) Graham

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NFS 2 -vs-3
by Mohler, Jeff 07 Mar '99

07 Mar '99

In a really short list, other than the attribute cache, why is vers 2 NFS better than vers 3? Im looking at the window (2 -vs- 8k) as the advantage. I will be working with directories with fewer than a dozen LARGE files on each mount. Thanks!

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NetApp/Auspex killer?
by askaquestion＠iname.com 06 Mar '99

06 Mar '99

Yes, NetApps are fine boxes but... If you started a company to build a NAS box, what would you build that would be better than what NetApp, Auspex, etc. has? I'm looking for serious responses here - to improve the market with competition! I don't view the kind of very-low $ suggestions on this list recently as the kind of thing that most of us are interested in. Don't let my anonymous query lead you into thinking that I'm not 100% serious. If anything it should illustrate just how serious I am. --------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com

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RE: Legato Networker backups
by Whitman, Matthew 06 Mar '99

06 Mar '99

Dane, I am not aware which or if any of the backup vendors provide Linux support. You COULD batch data nightly to the netapp... 8=) Actually NDMP is an open standard, and we have a utility called NDMP copy that allows source to destination copies from one filer to another. This has already been ported to hp-UX to allow a copy to/from a filer. I don't doubt that it could be built/compiled for Linux if someone were to put forth the effort... As for the different packages in general, I like to remain neutral between the different vendors, and would advise you to do your due diligence and compare the value add of each product. Good luck! Regards, Matt Matt Whitman - Consulting Systems Engineer Network Appliance, Inc. www.netapp.com 2350 Mission College Blvd. Suite 900 Santa Clara, CA 95054 (408)367-3000 Corporate mattw(a)netapp.com - E-mail (408)987-5365 - Direct Dial (408)987-5364 - Fax -----Original Message----- From: Dane Jasper [mailto:dane@sonic.net] Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 4:05 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Legato Networker backups Matthew, thanks much for the great summary. We're a growing enterprise with scattered backup solutions, and we're currently shopping for a consolidated solution. We need to back up the following - is Legato "the" solution for this? One NetApp with 30 gigs 15 Linux servers, 150 gigs 20 Linux stations, 40 gigs 1 NT server, 4 gigs 10 Assorted NT/95/98 stations, 20 gigs Will Legato do all of this? Is there another way? Is there some sort of Legato client for each of these machines? Thanks much for the info! -- Dane Jasper Sonic (707)522-1001 (33.6kbps) (707)522-1000 (Voice) mailto:support@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53 ----- Forwarded message from "Whitman, Matthew" <matt.whitman(a)netapp.com> ----- Greg, I will take a crack at answering this for you as a "guy in the know..". First things first; you are not the first to bring this up. As you may or may not know, NetApp wrote a protocol several years ago called NDMP which stands for Network Data Management Protocol, which allows for a "standard" that controls remote tape devices, storage pools, etc. Most every backup vendor signed on to support the protocol (Veritas, Intelliguard, BudTool, Seagate, CommVault, etc.) except Legato, who maintained the "superiority" of their proprietary system. There have been a large number of VERY big NetApp installs that have been pushing Legato to provide native NetApp or they would switch to another product. This led to the co-development of a Java-based Legato Networker client that will run directly on the Filer. The expected shipping date of this product is Q2/99. This product will be distributed, supported (and presumably sold) directly by Legato. But wait!! Things get EVEN better! On 1/28/99, Legato announced that they were acquiring Intelliguard Software: http://www.legato.com/press/PR200.html One of the main reasons cited for buying Intelliguard was the NDMP technology. EVEN BETTER!!!!!!!!! On 2/2/99, Legato announced that all Networker products will be NDMP compliant in Q3/99: http://www.legato.com/press/PR209.html With a big sigh of relief and a smile on their faces, NetApp customers and employees could give a hearty YAHOO!!! Now, the question was asked about keeping the CIFS attributes during backup; both of the methods above will allow this to happen. In current environments, backups need to be done by an NT machine running Networker, OR having a UNIX Networker server that backs up an NT machine with the Filer mounted on it. I hope that this helps. Regards, Matt Matt Whitman - Consulting Systems Engineer Network Appliance, Inc. www.netapp.com 2350 Mission College Blvd. Suite 900 Santa Clara, CA 95054 (408)367-3000 Corporate mattw(a)netapp.com - E-mail (408)987-5365 - Direct Dial (408)987-5364 - Fax -----Original Message----- From: Gregory M. Paris [mailto:paris@bose.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 12:26 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: paris(a)bose.com Subject: Legato Networker backups Dear Toasters, This is along the lines of the "Future Newbie" thread, though I'm not new to NetApp boxes. I am looking to get our first here at this company. We use Legato Networker to backup our Engineering systems, which I support. (We use HP's Omniback and a StorageTek tape library for our business systems, but that's another post....) The problem is, I'm not clear on how I'll backup an F740 (~180 GB) using Networker. I've read the "How to Integrate..." white paper on the NetApp site. I've read the ancient "Backing Up NetApp..." on the Legato site. Neither of those seem to address our situation: Networker server running on Solaris; NetApp server with NFS and CIFS. How do I? I can connect a Quantum DLT stacker to the NetApp, but can I make Legato use it? If not, how do I backup over the network, given that I want to preserve NT ACLs? The "How to Integrate..." document shows how to do this when Networker runs on an NT machine, but we have it on UNIX. I'm looking for a definitive answer, on the order of, "We do it here and it works great!" (along with the how-to, of course). I'm bucking the prevailing winds in trying to bring in a NetApp. Tiny issues like, "No proven way to back it up," could result in me supporting a new HP or Sun server. (Not that I don't use their equipment already, but the combination of RAID and NFS+CIFS is too much complexity on UNIX servers, IMHO.) All help is appreciated. Greg -- Gregory M. Paris CIS Engineering Systems Bose Corporation Email: paris(a)bose.com The Mountain Phone: +1 508 766-6080 Framingham, MA 01701-9168 FAX: +1 508 820-0173 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Dane Jasper Sonic (707)522-1001 (33.6kbps) (707)522-1000 (Voice) mailto:support@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53

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