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RE: Max number of drives.
by Palinckx, Gregory 08 Oct '99

08 Oct '99

Hi Jason, There is a 56 drive hardware limit per FC-AL loop. There is also a total capacity software restriction. I believe this is a F760, so the software restriction will be about 1.4TB. Greg > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 2:37 PM > To: Thompson, Arnold > Cc: Mohler, Jeff; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > I am not concerned about mixing the drives in the volume > because like drive > will be in there own raidgroup. I am just wondering about > the max number > of drives. All the docs say 28 18Gig drives and 56 9Gig > drives in a loop. > But what if you have 21 18Gig drives and 14 9Gig drives? Do > you look at > the maximum Storage Capacity to determine how many total > drive you can have > when you mix them? > > Thanks > Jason > > > > > > "Thompson, Arnold" <arnold.thompson(a)netapp.com> on 10/07/99 > 03:46:34 PM > > To: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler(a)netapp.com>, Jason > Middlebrooks/Datalink, > toasters(a)mathworks.com > cc: > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > > > I recall from mixing 9s and 18s at a customer site that you > *can* add the > 18s to > an existing volume of 9s and still get 18G worth (minus filesystem > overhead, > snaps, etc.) from each 18G drive. The first 18G drive > becomes parity and > the 9G > parity becomes a data drive (so you get 9G additional > capacity from the > first > 18G drive), but after that you should get 18 and not 9. Historically, > you've > been able to mix and match with the filer doing the right > thing. It is > true > that if a 9G drive fails and there is no 9G spare, it will > rebuild on an > 18G > drive but you will only get 9G on that rebuilt drive. So be > sure to have a > spare of each size available. If anybody has tested this > with different > results > I could be completely nuts, so please educate us! > > It is important to make the 9G shelves the lowest order > shelves for FCAL > loop > initialization purposes, so make the 9G shelves numbers 0 and 1. > > Regards, > Arnie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:38 AM > > To: 'Jason Middlebrooks'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > > > > Sure, no problem. > > > > But when you add them to a volume (if you are not creating a > > new one) make sure > > you add them to the volume made up of 18G drives. (That is, > > if the 18G drives > > are a separate volume from the 9G ones). > > > > If you mix/max drive sizes in a volume, the larger drives > > will appear only to be > > the size of the smallest drive in the array. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM > > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Subject: Max number of drives. > > > > > > Question. > > > > I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 > > drives. Can I > > add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? > > > > The filer is a F760 > > > > Thanks in advance > > Jason Middlebrooks > > > > >

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RE: Max number of drives.
by Jason Middlebrooks 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

I am not concerned about mixing the drives in the volume because like drive will be in there own raidgroup. I am just wondering about the max number of drives. All the docs say 28 18Gig drives and 56 9Gig drives in a loop. But what if you have 21 18Gig drives and 14 9Gig drives? Do you look at the maximum Storage Capacity to determine how many total drive you can have when you mix them? Thanks Jason "Thompson, Arnold" <arnold.thompson(a)netapp.com> on 10/07/99 03:46:34 PM To: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler(a)netapp.com>, Jason Middlebrooks/Datalink, toasters(a)mathworks.com cc: Subject: RE: Max number of drives. I recall from mixing 9s and 18s at a customer site that you *can* add the 18s to an existing volume of 9s and still get 18G worth (minus filesystem overhead, snaps, etc.) from each 18G drive. The first 18G drive becomes parity and the 9G parity becomes a data drive (so you get 9G additional capacity from the first 18G drive), but after that you should get 18 and not 9. Historically, you've been able to mix and match with the filer doing the right thing. It is true that if a 9G drive fails and there is no 9G spare, it will rebuild on an 18G drive but you will only get 9G on that rebuilt drive. So be sure to have a spare of each size available. If anybody has tested this with different results I could be completely nuts, so please educate us! It is important to make the 9G shelves the lowest order shelves for FCAL loop initialization purposes, so make the 9G shelves numbers 0 and 1. Regards, Arnie > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:38 AM > To: 'Jason Middlebrooks'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > Sure, no problem. > > But when you add them to a volume (if you are not creating a > new one) make sure > you add them to the volume made up of 18G drives. (That is, > if the 18G drives > are a separate volume from the 9G ones). > > If you mix/max drive sizes in a volume, the larger drives > will appear only to be > the size of the smallest drive in the array. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Max number of drives. > > > Question. > > I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 > drives. Can I > add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? > > The filer is a F760 > > Thanks in advance > Jason Middlebrooks >

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RE: Max number of drives.
by Palinckx, Gregory 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Hi All - Unless something has changed in the 5.3 days, Arnie is correct - you can add 18s to a 9GB group and get 18(17)GB. Here is a sysconfig from a customer out here - RAID group 0 RAID Disk HA.ID HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ----- ------------ ---- -------------- -------------- parity 0a.11 0a 1 3 FC:A 17000/34816000 17366/35566480 data 0a.5 0a 0 5 FC:A 8600/17612800 8683/17783112 data 0a.1 0a 0 1 FC:A 8600/17612800 8683/17783112 data 0a.2 0a 0 2 FC:A 8600/17612800 8683/17783112 data 0a.3 0a 0 3 FC:A 8600/17612800 8683/17783112 data 0a.6 0a 0 6 FC:A 8600/17612800 8683/17783112 data 0a.4 0a 0 4 FC:A 8600/17612800 8683/17783112 data 0a.13 0a 1 5 FC:A 17000/34816000 17366/35566480 data 0a.12 0a 1 4 FC:A 17000/34816000 17366/35566480 data 0a.9 0a 1 1 FC:A 17000/34816000 17366/35566480 I would just be sure that you have enough 18s to get a decent stripe.... Greg SE - Rockies > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 1:50 PM > To: Thompson, Arnold; 'Jason Middlebrooks'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > Im scratching some documents here.. > > I could have swore the last time I asked that I was told the > larger drives would > be counted as the smaller capacity drives after the parity drive. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thompson, Arnold > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:47 PM > To: Mohler, Jeff; 'Jason Middlebrooks'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > I recall from mixing 9s and 18s at a customer site that you > *can* add the 18s to > an existing volume of 9s and still get 18G worth (minus > filesystem overhead, > snaps, etc.) from each 18G drive. The first 18G drive > becomes parity and the 9G > parity becomes a data drive (so you get 9G additional > capacity from the first > 18G drive), but after that you should get 18 and not 9. > Historically, you've > been able to mix and match with the filer doing the right > thing. It is true > that if a 9G drive fails and there is no 9G spare, it will > rebuild on an 18G > drive but you will only get 9G on that rebuilt drive. So be > sure to have a > spare of each size available. If anybody has tested this > with different results > I could be completely nuts, so please educate us! > > It is important to make the 9G shelves the lowest order > shelves for FCAL loop > initialization purposes, so make the 9G shelves numbers 0 and 1. > > Regards, > Arnie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:38 AM > > To: 'Jason Middlebrooks'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > > > > Sure, no problem. > > > > But when you add them to a volume (if you are not creating a > > new one) make sure > > you add them to the volume made up of 18G drives. (That is, > > if the 18G drives > > are a separate volume from the 9G ones). > > > > If you mix/max drive sizes in a volume, the larger drives > > will appear only to be > > the size of the smallest drive in the array. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM > > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Subject: Max number of drives. > > > > > > Question. > > > > I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 > > drives. Can I > > add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? > > > > The filer is a F760 > > > > Thanks in advance > > Jason Middlebrooks > > >

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RE: Max number of drives.
by Mohler, Jeff 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Im scratching some documents here.. I could have swore the last time I asked that I was told the larger drives would be counted as the smaller capacity drives after the parity drive. -----Original Message----- From: Thompson, Arnold Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:47 PM To: Mohler, Jeff; 'Jason Middlebrooks'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Max number of drives. I recall from mixing 9s and 18s at a customer site that you *can* add the 18s to an existing volume of 9s and still get 18G worth (minus filesystem overhead, snaps, etc.) from each 18G drive. The first 18G drive becomes parity and the 9G parity becomes a data drive (so you get 9G additional capacity from the first 18G drive), but after that you should get 18 and not 9. Historically, you've been able to mix and match with the filer doing the right thing. It is true that if a 9G drive fails and there is no 9G spare, it will rebuild on an 18G drive but you will only get 9G on that rebuilt drive. So be sure to have a spare of each size available. If anybody has tested this with different results I could be completely nuts, so please educate us! It is important to make the 9G shelves the lowest order shelves for FCAL loop initialization purposes, so make the 9G shelves numbers 0 and 1. Regards, Arnie > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:38 AM > To: 'Jason Middlebrooks'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > Sure, no problem. > > But when you add them to a volume (if you are not creating a > new one) make sure > you add them to the volume made up of 18G drives. (That is, > if the 18G drives > are a separate volume from the 9G ones). > > If you mix/max drive sizes in a volume, the larger drives > will appear only to be > the size of the smallest drive in the array. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Max number of drives. > > > Question. > > I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 > drives. Can I > add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? > > The filer is a F760 > > Thanks in advance > Jason Middlebrooks >

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RE: Max number of drives.
by Thompson, Arnold 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

I recall from mixing 9s and 18s at a customer site that you *can* add the 18s to an existing volume of 9s and still get 18G worth (minus filesystem overhead, snaps, etc.) from each 18G drive. The first 18G drive becomes parity and the 9G parity becomes a data drive (so you get 9G additional capacity from the first 18G drive), but after that you should get 18 and not 9. Historically, you've been able to mix and match with the filer doing the right thing. It is true that if a 9G drive fails and there is no 9G spare, it will rebuild on an 18G drive but you will only get 9G on that rebuilt drive. So be sure to have a spare of each size available. If anybody has tested this with different results I could be completely nuts, so please educate us! It is important to make the 9G shelves the lowest order shelves for FCAL loop initialization purposes, so make the 9G shelves numbers 0 and 1. Regards, Arnie > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:38 AM > To: 'Jason Middlebrooks'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > Sure, no problem. > > But when you add them to a volume (if you are not creating a > new one) make sure > you add them to the volume made up of 18G drives. (That is, > if the 18G drives > are a separate volume from the 9G ones). > > If you mix/max drive sizes in a volume, the larger drives > will appear only to be > the size of the smallest drive in the array. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Max number of drives. > > > Question. > > I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 > drives. Can I > add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? > > The filer is a F760 > > Thanks in advance > Jason Middlebrooks >

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RE: Max number of drives.
by Mohler, Jeff 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Sure, no problem. But when you add them to a volume (if you are not creating a new one) make sure you add them to the volume made up of 18G drives. (That is, if the 18G drives are a separate volume from the 9G ones). If you mix/max drive sizes in a volume, the larger drives will appear only to be the size of the smallest drive in the array. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Max number of drives. Question. I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 drives. Can I add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? The filer is a F760 Thanks in advance Jason Middlebrooks

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Max number of drives.
by Jason Middlebrooks 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Question. I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 drives. Can I add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? The filer is a F760 Thanks in advance Jason Middlebrooks

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RE: Max number of drives.
by Alvarado, Michael 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

You can add the additional 7 disks since that will still be less than the maximum storage capacity currently supported on an F740. The maximum capacity of an F740 is 928 GB. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Max number of drives. Question. I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 drives. Can I add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? The filer is a F760 Thanks in advance Jason Middlebrooks

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More Backup Questions
by Jay Orr 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Hi. Still curious about this all. Thanks for all the info people have sent me. Here's some more questions. I'm working from a system where we have a jukebox hanging off a sun box backing up an F330 (well, there's more then this, but I'm keeping it simple). 1) Does the current (5.3.2r1) version support NDMP v3? a) If not is v3 support planned and for when? 2) What (if any) advantage is there using NDMP vs. Dump (dump.FAServer)? 3) Which is better/faster for individual file restores (i.e. one or two files only)? 4) Can you extract a file out of a NDMP dump onto a different file system (i.e. onto a sun box)? 5) Are both snapshot backups (NDMP & dump.FAServer)? Important for ClearCase users.... 6) Any problems spanning NDMP dumps over multiple tapes? Concerns that bring me to these questions : 1) Budtool (now Legato) not wanting to support dump.FAServer types. vs 2) End of Life on the F330's. ----------- Fujitsu - Nexion, St. Louis, MO Jay Orr (314) 579-6517

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Re: More Backup Questions
by Darrell Fuhriman 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Jay Orr <orrjl(a)stl.nexen.com> writes: all of my answers assume you're backing up to local tape. > 1) Does the current (5.3.2r1) version support NDMP v3? No. the standard has not been finalized and to my knowledge no one has implemented it. > a) If not is v3 support planned and for when? I'm trying to find the answer to this myself. > 2) What (if any) advantage is there using NDMP vs. Dump (dump.FAServer)? well, NDMP will work with your backup software better. Keep in mind, NDMP is nothing but a dump which spits back some meta information to the backup server. > 3) Which is better/faster for individual file restores > (i.e. one or two files only)? they're equally bad for the reason given above. > 4) Can you extract a file out of a NDMP dump onto a different file system > (i.e. onto a sun box)? you should be able to, though frankly I've never tried it. > 5) Are both snapshot backups (NDMP & dump.FAServer)? Important for > ClearCase users.... yes. > 6) Any problems spanning NDMP dumps over multiple tapes? no. Darrell

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