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Re: NDMP Backups and restore with NetBackup
by Steve Kappel 17 Aug '00

17 Aug '00

David Lockwood wrote: >Consider the following scenario: > >Data is written to a volume on one NetApp filer, on the hour this data is mirrored using snapmirror to a remote filer. NetBackup is used, using NDMP, to backup the data from the remote filer (snapmirror copy). Backups work fine and are reliable until ..... > >.... you want to restore data. The Netbackup restore option for NDMP types does not appear to give any option for restoring data to any alternate location. The original location is of course an offline volume that is read only. If by 'location' you mean a different NetApp, NetBackup calls this "alternate client restore". NetBackup NDMP supports this beginning in version 3.4 which was released recently. If you mean a different directory, NetBackup calls this "alternate path restore" and NetBackup NDMP has supported that at least as far back as 3.2. If you need help on how to do this, email me privately and I'll have someone here give you the details (depends on which user interface you are using). __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve.kappel(a)iname.com (Personal)

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RE: RCS issues with ONTAP 5.4.3R2
by Muhlestein, Mark 17 Aug '00

17 Aug '00

This is likely bug #21019, fixed in 5.3.5. Check with NetApp support to get the exact recommended version, since the fix exists in many releases. Mark Muhlestein -- mmm(a)netapp.com <mailto:mmm@netapp.com> -----Original Message----- From: Clawson, Simon [mailto:simon_clawson@mentorg.com] Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 9:45 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: RCS issues with ONTAP 5.4.3R2 Sorry, more clarification suggested.... We have a call open with the support team, who are at a bit of a loss too. I was hoping that there would be a user out there who has seen this too... We went up from 5.2.3 to 5.3.4R2. The user working on UNIX boxes are able to be checkout file with RCS exclusive locks. Users on PC's get "permission denied" The user "eegbuild" owns most of the files in the share where the problem is being experinced , however this has never caused an issue. We have fond that once the users check out files on unix (which changes ownership to them) then they can check out when working on the PC. Likewise, user can check out files owned by users other than eegbuild. The problem appears to be on the CIFS side of things. -----Original Message----- From: Clawson, Simon [mailto:simon_clawson] Sent: 17 August 2000 16:38 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RCS issues with ONTAP 5.4.3R2 Hi! We have upgraded (downgraded??) to 5.4.3R2. Everything seems to work apart from RCS access. User can open and lock files on UNIX boxes OK. However on PC, users cannot open and lock files that have been created by another user. This operation work fine up until this upgrade (Previously we were on 5.2.3) ANY ONE? cheers Simon Simon Clawson Renoir Group Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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quota -v user
by Stephen C. Woods 17 Aug '00

17 Aug '00

We had an interesting problem yesterday. We're running a 740 with 5.3.4r2. When the problem showed up (yesterday AM) we had been up for some 142 days (I just love these machines). On AIX and HPUX machines quota -v user hung for several minutes and then returned no information. Solaris machines on the same networks returned right away with the correct information. This morning I rebooted the filer and the problem went away. Tech support hadn't a clue. Has anyone seen this before? ----- Stephen C. Woods; UCLA SEASnet; 2567 Boelter hall; LA CA 90095; (310)-825-8614 Finger for public key scw(a)kinross.seas.ucla.edu,Internet mail:scw@SEAS.UCLA.EDU

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NDMP Backups and restore with NetBackup
by David Lockwood 17 Aug '00

17 Aug '00

Consider the following scenario: Data is written to a volume on one NetApp filer, on the hour this data is mirrored using snapmirror to a remote filer. NetBackup is used, using NDMP, to backup the data from the remote filer (snapmirror copy). Backups work fine and are reliable until ..... .... you want to restore data. The Netbackup restore option for NDMP types does not appear to give any option for restoring data to any alternate location. The original location is of course an offline volume that is read only. Has anyone got any bright ideas about how this could be overcome. Thanks David ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For further information on Benetton Formula 1 visit our web site at www.benettonf1.com. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please destroy and notify Benetton Formula on +44 1608678000. ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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RCS issues with ONTAP 5.4.3R2
by Clawson, Simon 17 Aug '00

17 Aug '00

Hi! We have upgraded (downgraded??) to 5.4.3R2. Everything seems to work apart from RCS access. User can open and lock files on UNIX boxes OK. However on PC, users cannot open and lock files that have been created by another user. This operation work fine up until this upgrade (Previously we were on 5.2.3) ANY ONE? cheers Simon Simon Clawson Renoir Group Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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RE: Snapshots and Oracle
by Yarmas, Tom 17 Aug '00

17 Aug '00

That's right. The SCN corresponds to the "The checkpoint, i.e., a record indicating the point in the redo log such that all database changes prior to this point have been saved in the datafiles." The part of my post that you included in your message was cut and pasted from the Oracle documentation. The TR produced by NetApp is intended as an example of how to use Snapshots to backup an Oracle database. It is certainly important that any DBA/SA familiarize themselves with the Oracle Backup and Recovery Guide, and fully understand what needs to be backed up in order to be able to recover from various failures as they relate to an Oracle Instance. It is also important that recovery scenarios be practiced. The Snapshot technology simply gives the DBA a virtual online copy of the datafiles that are stored on the Filer. There are many parts of the Oracle database, and many variations on which parts any individual might store on a Filer for any given Oracle Instance. It is important that no parts that are required for recovery are forgotten during a backup. -tom > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustavo Chaves [mailto:gustavo@cpqd.com.br] > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 8:02 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: Snapshots and Oracle > > > >>>>> "Yarmas" == Yarmas, Tom <Tom.Yarmas(a)netapp.com> writes: > > Yarmas> The control file contains: The database name. The timestamp > Yarmas> of database creation. The names of the database's datafiles > Yarmas> and online and archived redo log files. The checkpoint, > Yarmas> i.e., a record indicating the point in the redo log such > Yarmas> that all database changes prior to this point have been > Yarmas> saved in the datafiles. Information on backups (when using > Yarmas> the Recovery Manager utility). > > I'm no expert but W. Curtis Preston tells on page 459 of his book > 'UNIX Backup & Recovery' (from O'Reilly) that Oracle's control files > keep something called an SCN (System Change Number) for each database > object. In particular, whenever a datafile is modified its SCN is > incremented in it and in the control files. From this I gather that > control files are changed after every database change, which means we > *must* back them up whenever we backup the database. > > Gustavo. >

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Re: Configuring Netbackup for NDMP 3.2
by Steve Kappel 17 Aug '00

17 Aug '00

Oye Akintan wrote: >I used tsdtest -r and I got a different kind of error >it says: >scsi command failed >Sense key: Illegal Request (0x5) >Invalid move attempted (ASC 0x24, ASCQ 0x0) > >The tape is set to target 6 on SCSI id 0 on netapp so i set the command > >I'm guessing something is wrong with this setting. How can I resolve this ? Someone here said that these DLT4700 stackers always have the drive on LUN 0 and the robotic control on LUN 1. Try set_ndmp_attr -robot servername spt0 0 6 1 __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve.kappel(a)iname.com (Personal)

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Re: Configuring Netbackup for NDMP 3.2
by Steve Kappel 17 Aug '00

17 Aug '00

>Oye Akintan wrote: >>We have a F230 running Data Ontap 5.2.3 with a Quantum DLT4700 directly >>attached to it. I'm running Netbackup for Veritas 3.2 and Netbackup for >>NDMP 3.2. I've installed jumbo patch 0820413. I'm having problem >>configuring the storage device. I ran the command set_ndmp_attr -robot . >>The sys admin guide says to test it using tldtest -r servername:spt0 but >>when I ran this command, the mode sense failed with the following error: >> >>mode_sense failed, CHECK CONDITION >>sense key = 0x5, asc = 0x24, ascq = 0x0, INVALID FIELD IN CDB >> Can anyone tell me what I can do to fix it ? > >Is this a standalone drive? If so, then there is no robot to configure. >tldtest -r tests the robot. I was just reminded (thanks Bill Roth @ NetApp) that DLT4700 drives only work in stackers. In NetBackup that is robot type TSD, not TLD. So the test program would be tsdtest. __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve.kappel(a)iname.com (Personal)

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Re: Snapshots and Oracle
by Gustavo Chaves 16 Aug '00

16 Aug '00

>>>>> "Yarmas" == Yarmas, Tom <Tom.Yarmas(a)netapp.com> writes: Yarmas> The control file contains: The database name. The timestamp Yarmas> of database creation. The names of the database's datafiles Yarmas> and online and archived redo log files. The checkpoint, Yarmas> i.e., a record indicating the point in the redo log such Yarmas> that all database changes prior to this point have been Yarmas> saved in the datafiles. Information on backups (when using Yarmas> the Recovery Manager utility). I'm no expert but W. Curtis Preston tells on page 459 of his book 'UNIX Backup & Recovery' (from O'Reilly) that Oracle's control files keep something called an SCN (System Change Number) for each database object. In particular, whenever a datafile is modified its SCN is incremented in it and in the control files. From this I gather that control files are changed after every database change, which means we *must* back them up whenever we backup the database. Gustavo.

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RE: Filer storage for databases, seriously? (Was: Re: NetApp ques tions)
by Sims, Aaron 15 Aug '00

15 Aug '00

You're right about one thing... all things are not equal. You raised some good points along the way... see below for my annotations. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Tao [mailto:taob@risc.org] > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 2:33 PM > To: Pesce, Nicholas (FUSA) > Cc: keith(a)netapp.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Filer storage for databases, seriously? (Was: Re: NetApp > ques tions) > > > On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, Pesce, Nicholas (FUSA) wrote: > > > > I'm sorry Keith. But I've heard this argument before. NFS versus > > Direct attatch storage? I'm going to have to vote for a good direct > > attach solution. Why? > > > > NFS and CIFS have huge overhead. > > Sure, as someone else mentioned, all other things being equal, > direct-attach storage is faster than network-attached storage. The > logic (which I've argued before as well) is simple: a NAS box talks > to its drives as DAS. Thus, the DAS must necessarily be "faster" > (yeah, a vague term). For example, setting caching aside, it is not > possible for a filer to pump 50MB/s of data to an NFS client if it can > only read 30MB/s off its own drives. One thing to remember in regards to caching... when you request a block on disk, your local OS (with direct attach storage) will read that block and read ahead several more blocks. Those read-ahead blocks will be transferred via your fibre channel, even if they aren't used by your application. The filer on the other hand will do the same read-ahead, but it will only transmit the block that was requested. If the application asks for the next block, then both have that block in memory. Now, in a database environment where blocks are very randomly placed within a filesystem, this read-ahead via direct attach storage is going to kill the efficiency of the bandwidth to your storage, and that's your OS's fault. Whereas with a filer, you can turn off read-ahead within the filer to minimize the work it does. > > However, all things are not equal, at least in benchmarks that are > possible in the real world. Yes, NFS and CIFS add overhead compared > to SCSI-over-FibreChannel or what have you. However, that is offset > by an optimized OS (Data ONTAP), by an efficient filesystem (WAFL), by > read and write caching, by an optimized TCP/IP stack, etc. If you > could port all that and run it to DAS, then you might have a fair > comparison. > > > I think I would like to see a test where the Disk sizes and number > > were similar, I sincerely doubt the Netapp would do as well. > > Depends on the application, of course, but I've been surprised > many times in the past when I thought for sure the Netapp would not be > able to keep up. I have a 4x450-MHz E420R with a VxVM RAID-0 device, > spread over 16 50GB 7200 rpm drives on two U2SCSI buses. The server > also has a Gigabit Ethernet connection to an F740 with one shelf of > 36GB 10000 rpm drives (5 data, 1 parity, 1 spare). The local > filesystem is vxfs, mounted with delaylog and the largest allowable > log area. > > I ran a few filesystem replication and backup/restore tests (this > is our central tape server). The local filesystem handily beat the > Netapp doing large sequential reads and writes (120MB/sec vs. > 22MB/sec)... no surprise there. File deletions were a little closer > (~2500 unlinks/sec on vxfs, ~2000 unlinks/sec on the Netapp). In all > other tests, the Netapp was as fast or faster (sometimes by a large > margin) than local filesystem. The Netapp seems to especially shine > when you have multiple processes reading and writing to all points on > the filesystem. vxfs does not appear to handle it as gracefully with > dozens or hundreds of concurrent access requests. This is an apples to oranges test. Sure, streaming to/from RAID0 will always kick ass. However, who really runs RAID0 these days??? (I'm sure there's about <.1% of applications where RAID0 is suitable, because the data is not critical) RAID 0+1 might be a slightly better comparison since the filer doesn't have a RAID0 mode. > I re-ran some of the same tests with a Veritas RAID-5 volume (to > be fair to the Netapp), but I stopped after the first couple. There > is no contest at that point. Veritas software RAID-5 is dog-slow (I > think I saw bursts of 8MB/sec sequential writes). Turn on a Veritas > snapshot, and writes to the snapped filesystem go even further into > the toilet. The performance degradation is cumulative with the number > of snapshots. There is no such penalty on the Netapp. Ok, this is apples to apples. > One caveat I should mention, since it bit us in the past: file > locking performance. We have one application that, when running on > the same type of hardware as above (E420R with those drives), spews > forth 150,000 syscalls per second, according to Solaris' "vmstat". > 80% of those calls are fcntl() locks/unlocks to various database files > on disk. Poor programming practice aside, this application runs very > slowly over NFS. It simply cannot match in-kernel file locking when > you're dealing with a local filesystem. Besides that one exceptional > application, we run Netapps for everything else (including Oracle). Ok, given the environment you just described, you could enable a undocumented feature within the solaris mount_nfs command, 'llock'. This tells the NFS client that he shouldn't use NLM to do file locking, I'll just do it locally. This will essentially give you in-kernel locking. The caveat here is that you can't share the filesystem with other clients, but you can't do that with today's direct attach storage either. I usually recommend using the llock option in a Solaris/Oracle/filer environment. Aaron

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