toasters January 2005

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

67 participants
75 discussions

Ship Confirmation, Tracking Number : ZCR740328048485YTMX
by James 11 Jan '05

11 Jan '05

The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. Alvin Toffler Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. -Groucho Marx (1890-1977) Do you practice driving in London? Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Mark Twain [Samuel Langhornne Clemens] (1835-1910) lets goto mcdonalds soon. we can get a hamburger or too. Haven't you disliked reading? i need to get a pedicure. my feet smell and itch Did those bus drivers regret singing? When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other. -Eric Hoffer (1902-1983) Don't go around saying the world owes you a living; the world owes you nothing; it was here first. Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining? George Wallace About the necessity of compromise

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Surpesfat dielrvey
by Abdul Joyner 11 Jan '05

11 Jan '05

Canuck Prhamayc *****on premediation requisite***** * Lowest Prices * Valor, Xray, Vitality, Supa, Amor, Philosophy, moo!! * Fearful Desire *****on premeditation requisite*****

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netgroup problem ?
by Frank Bonnet 10 Jan '05

10 Jan '05

I have s strange problem with the netgroup file ( I think ... ) I'm running 6.5.2R1 on a F87 box and I have a problem adding a machine in the /etc/netgroup file of the filer. The file is local to the filer. When I add a machine called "alfa" into the netgroup file the partition is not exported for this machine. I've tried to move the alfa machine to several places in the netgroup file but it does not help at all, nothing written in syslog nor to the console ... anyone could help ? -- Cordialement/Regards Frank Bonnet

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Data Ontap 7
by Joel.Cooper＠lvvwd.com 08 Jan '05

08 Jan '05

Is anyone using version 7 of DOT? Thoughts? Opinions?

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RE: vol copy
by Michael Christian 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Not if you have 2.3M files... -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Linux Admin Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:13 AM To: devnull(a)adc.idt.com Cc: McCarthy, Tim; NetApp Toasters List Subject: Re: vol copy qtree snapmirro is very usefull for that On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:31:49 -0500 (EST), devnull(a)adc.idt.com <devnull(a)adc.idt.com> wrote: > What would be really cool is if you would let us copy/move qtrees between > volumes. I find myself having to do that more often that i copy entire > volumes. > > Right now, i end up doing it over the network which kinda seems > unnecessary. > > Thanks > On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Jerry wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 07:14:10 -0800 (PST) > > From: Jerry <juanino(a)yahoo.com> > > To: "McCarthy, Tim" <timothy.mccarthy(a)netapp.com>, > > Paul Galjan <galjan(a)gmail.com>, Ben Rockwood <brockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> > > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Subject: vol copy > > > > Whoa. That's really cool. > > > > --- "McCarthy, Tim" <timothy.mccarthy(a)netapp.com> > > wrote: > > > >> How "wide" are your directories? They play a very > >> important role in the > >> backup process. The more files in any given > >> directory, the longer it > >> takes to parse. > >> > >> How about this: VOLCOPY > >> > >> This only works at a volume level, it is all or none > >> and no incrementals > >> available...without a snapmirror license. > >> > >> You could do this: > >> > >> Source=vol1 Dest=dvol > >> > >>> From the Dest: > >> vol restrict dvol > >> > >> from the source: > >> vol copy -S start vol1 dest:dvol (-->that is a cap > >> -S) > >> > >> this will copy the source volume, including all > >> snapshots to the > >> destination volume. (if you do not want the > >> snapshots, drop the -S) > >> > >> The catch: You must copy the whole volume and you > >> must use a whole > >> volume on the destination to copy to. Any > >> information on the destination > >> volume will be eradicated. > >> > >> This will work in 6.x and 7.x although in 7.x you > >> can only copy between > >> like volumes. Flex to Flex and Traditional to > >> Traditional. > >> > >> --tmac > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Paul Galjan [mailto:galjan@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:32 PM > >> To: Ben Rockwood > >> Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > >> Subject: Re: NDMP Tuning > >> > >> Hey, you've always got cygwin ;-). > >> > >> Seriously, though. 2.3M files is a serious number > >> of files. I used > >> to have a 180G home directory partition for about > >> 300 users with only > >> about half that number of inodes. Even with rsync, > >> it took about 4 > >> hours to move that guy over to the destination, even > >> when less tha n > >> 500 MB had changed. > >> > >> It underscores the point that block level > >> replication will have better > >> performance than file level replication, whether you > >> end up using QSM > >> or ndmpcopy. It really is worth it to bang on your > >> rep to get > >> snapmirror for an amount that you can afford. I > >> almost guarantee it > >> would save you orders of magnitude in replication > >> time. > >> > >> --paul > >> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:19:48 -0800, Ben Rockwood > >> <brockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > >>> Paul Galjan wrote: > >>> > >>>> Cool then. > >>>> > >>>> In that case I would look at rsync and/or > >> robocopy (in a windows only > >>>> env). Not that rsync is a block level protocol > >> (it evaluates on the > >>>> file level), but perhaps it would provide better > >> performance with > >>>> smaller backup windows? > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Rsync is certainly a possiblity. I'm afraid I'd > >> have some problems > >>> being as in this enviroment the filers are being > >> used CIFS only, which > >>> makes file level interaction for an old UNIX > >> zealot like me less than > >>> entertaining. > >>> > >>>> To put a better point on it: NDMP is just a > >> wrapper around the UNIX > >>>> dump command. It's no better, nor worse than it, > >> and that's the > >>>> reason I asked. The dump command (and NDMP by > >> extension) is for > >>>> backup, not DR. It is a clunky protocol in terms > >> of straight > >>>> replication, and that's why Netapp and others > >> offer alternatives for > >>>> replication... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> In the end though, we should get to your problem: > >> how many inodes are > >>>> we looking at? And what happens in Pass 4, Stage > >> 1? The inode number > >>>> would be my first suspect. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Right. I haven't looked at the code itself to see > >> exactly what it's > >>> doing (I probly should at some point) but Stage 1 > >> of Pass IV seems to > >> be > >>> all about inode creation prior to copying in all > >> the data. The source > >>> volume has 2.3million inodes in use. That does't > >> seem like an > >>> outragious number, and this is a pretty small > >> filer all things > >>> considered. How creation of 2.3 million inodes > >> can consume 3 hours is > >>> beyond my understanding. During that time the > >> destination filers CPU > >> is > >>> nearly idle. The only explanation I can dream up > >> is that the proccess > >>> of creating inodes is happening so quickly that > >> the bulk of system > >> time > >>> is spent in context switches not in execution, and > >> hense a false sense > >>> of idle-ness... but thats a pretty BS explanation > >> since even if that > >>> were the case it still wouldn't take 3 hours. > >>> > >>> All the evidence I've seen thus far with NDMP > >> suggests that I just > >> need > >>> to turn up the flow. Is there an idle loop in the > >> dump code? Thats > >>> exactly what it feels like. Anyone know is there > >> is an OnTap > >> equivelent > >>> to truss? > >>> > >>> benr. > >>> > >>>> --paul > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:12:25 -0800, Ben Rockwood > >>>> <BRockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hey Paul. > >>>>> > >>>>> Because I never said I was building a "quick > >> disaster recovery" > >> solution. :) > >>>>> The recovery system I'm building is more of a > >> "at least we've got > >> another copy" solution. We don't have cash for a > >> nearline which leaves > >> us in a hole. I'm looking to temporarily fill that > >> hole by leveraging > >> old 840's to at least keep a copy of the data on > >> untill we can one day > >> cough up the cash for a proper nearline. I'm > >> wanting to use NDMP > >> perhaps predominantly because this is what it was > >> intended to do. > >> SnapMirror and SnapVault are undoubtably the better > >> solutions, but I'd > >> like to try and utilize NDMP rather than just give > >> up on it as a slow > >> useless system of backup/recovery. If NDMP would > >> just run at the speeds > >> that the filers are capable of I'd be doing ok. I'm > >> leaving > >> Snapmirror/Snapvault off the table for now. > >>>>> > >>>>> benr. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Paul Galjan [mailto:galjan@gmail.com] > >>>>> Sent: Wed 1/5/2005 4:52 PM > >>>>> To: Ben Rockwood > >>>>> Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > >>>>> Subject: Re: NDMP Tuning > >>>>> Hi Ben, > >>>>> > >>>>> I'll be the first to say that this doesn't > >> answer your question, but > >> > > === message truncated === > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > /dev/null > > devnull(a)adc.idt.com > >

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RE: X272 Disk Details
by Derek Lai 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

The JURE is Hitachi and SCHT is Seagate Cheetah. Derek -----Original Message----- From: Ben Rockwood [mailto:BRockwood@homestead-inc.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:45 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: X272 Disk Details I'm trying to work up some performance figures on the 72G disks I use in my DS14/mk2 shelfs. Sadly however sysconfig -v doesn't report the disk maker or model. I'm assuming their Seagate Cheetah's but not sure. NOW's part finder isn't giving me details either. Anyone know what the following disks actually are?: X272_HJURE073F10 NA07 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA02 X272_HJURE073F10 NA09 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA04 Thanx. benr.

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RE: NDMP Tuning
by Ben Rockwood 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Hey Paul. Because I never said I was building a "quick disaster recovery" solution. :) The recovery system I'm building is more of a "at least we've got another copy" solution. We don't have cash for a nearline which leaves us in a hole. I'm looking to temporarily fill that hole by leveraging old 840's to at least keep a copy of the data on untill we can one day cough up the cash for a proper nearline. I'm wanting to use NDMP perhaps predominantly because this is what it was intended to do. SnapMirror and SnapVault are undoubtably the better solutions, but I'd like to try and utilize NDMP rather than just give up on it as a slow useless system of backup/recovery. If NDMP would just run at the speeds that the filers are capable of I'd be doing ok. I'm leaving Snapmirror/Snapvault off the table for now. benr. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Galjan [mailto:galjan@gmail.com] Sent: Wed 1/5/2005 4:52 PM To: Ben Rockwood Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: NDMP Tuning Hi Ben, I'll be the first to say that this doesn't answer your question, but why are you using NDMP for quick disaster recovery? I would think that SnapMirror or SnapVault would be much more accomodating to DR requirements... My guess would be that a block level copy with VSM would be much more efficient... I would ask your Sales rep or SE for an eval snapmirror license. --paul On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:26:32 -0800, Ben Rockwood <BRockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > Happy New Year Toasters. > > Does anyone have experience with tuning NDMP? I'm not sure how much tuning is possible, but I'm trying to work out some serious slowness in NDMP Level 0's. > > Plenty of people have had these issues before but I'm not finding solutions on NOW or in forums. Here is a time breakdown of a L0 I did: > 5 hr 32 min total > 35 minutes in Pass I & II > 14 minutes in Pass III > 3 hr 38 min Pass IV (Stage 1, Creation) > 1 hr 21 min Pass IV (Stage 2, Copy) > Unknown in Pass V > > These numbers are rough based on timestamps during the NDMPcopy itself. The total transfer is about 58G from one 760 to another. It's the first stage of PassIV that really bothers me. During this first part of the pass there is very low CPU utilization and little IO. I need to speed up the process. Since the destination is a recovery filer and not serving data I don't care if it's CPU gets slammed or IO is pushed through the roof, I just need it done quicker. > > Is it throttling or can I some how speed it up? I'm using gig as the interconnect but as I understand it Pass IV Stage 1 is all about inode creation whereas Stage2 is the actual data transfer. The data transfer rate is roughly averaging 11MB/s between the two filers which is less than I'd like to see as well, the filer should be capable of handling a tranfer rate of 30MB/s pretty easily. > > Any hints or tips from the experienced? This is effectively a test setup before implementing a recovery system on our production 940's in which we'll be moving nearly 7TB of data. Given my findings so far it's going to be pretty nasty. > > benr. >

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REsolved: X272 Disk Details
by Ben Rockwood 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Thanx for all the responces. Skottie had a broken disk on his desk and was good enough to send me the model number. The rest of the responces were pertaining to the format of the NetApp model number which is: H = Hitachi, JUR = Jura, E = rev E. S = Seagate, CHT = Cheetah, 6 = rev 6. The numbers that follow the manufacturer/type are indicative of the RAW size, F = FCAL, and 10 = 10K RPM The model number that Skottie gave me didn't come up in the Seagate library so I'm using a comperable disk (ST373307FC) for specs. I namely need to establish the internal transfer rates and seek times. Thanx all. benr. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on behalf of Ben Rockwood Sent: Wed 1/5/2005 4:44 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: Subject: X272 Disk Details I'm trying to work up some performance figures on the 72G disks I use in my DS14/mk2 shelfs. Sadly however sysconfig -v doesn't report the disk maker or model. I'm assuming their Seagate Cheetah's but not sure. NOW's part finder isn't giving me details either. Anyone know what the following disks actually are?: X272_HJURE073F10 NA07 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA02 X272_HJURE073F10 NA09 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA04 Thanx. benr.

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NDMP Tuning
by Ben Rockwood 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Happy New Year Toasters. Does anyone have experience with tuning NDMP? I'm not sure how much tuning is possible, but I'm trying to work out some serious slowness in NDMP Level 0's. Plenty of people have had these issues before but I'm not finding solutions on NOW or in forums. Here is a time breakdown of a L0 I did: 5 hr 32 min total 35 minutes in Pass I & II 14 minutes in Pass III 3 hr 38 min Pass IV (Stage 1, Creation) 1 hr 21 min Pass IV (Stage 2, Copy) Unknown in Pass V These numbers are rough based on timestamps during the NDMPcopy itself. The total transfer is about 58G from one 760 to another. It's the first stage of PassIV that really bothers me. During this first part of the pass there is very low CPU utilization and little IO. I need to speed up the process. Since the destination is a recovery filer and not serving data I don't care if it's CPU gets slammed or IO is pushed through the roof, I just need it done quicker. Is it throttling or can I some how speed it up? I'm using gig as the interconnect but as I understand it Pass IV Stage 1 is all about inode creation whereas Stage2 is the actual data transfer. The data transfer rate is roughly averaging 11MB/s between the two filers which is less than I'd like to see as well, the filer should be capable of handling a tranfer rate of 30MB/s pretty easily. Any hints or tips from the experienced? This is effectively a test setup before implementing a recovery system on our production 940's in which we'll be moving nearly 7TB of data. Given my findings so far it's going to be pretty nasty. benr.

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X272 Disk Details
by Ben Rockwood 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

I'm trying to work up some performance figures on the 72G disks I use in my DS14/mk2 shelfs. Sadly however sysconfig -v doesn't report the disk maker or model. I'm assuming their Seagate Cheetah's but not sure. NOW's part finder isn't giving me details either. Anyone know what the following disks actually are?: X272_HJURE073F10 NA07 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA02 X272_HJURE073F10 NA09 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA04 Thanx. benr.

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toasters January 2005