toasters August 2001

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

122 participants
161 discussions

RE2 whoops: Tape SAN Help
by Mike Ball 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

Ambrose, I just finished ready the docs referenced earlier on the subject. It looks like the Netapps do support full fabric? I could have swore that I was told they logged in as arbitrated loop. Anyway, if they are full fabric you will not need Quickloop. I would still keep the zoning I suggested in case other devices are plugged into the switch. Thank you, Mike -----Original Message----- From: Ambrose_Earle(a)shamrockfoods.com [mailto:Ambrose_Earle@shamrockfoods.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 6:40 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Tape SAN Help We are having enormous problems configuring our new tape libraries with our filers. We keep getting different answers from people and I hope that someone on this list has something similar in production and they would be willing to share their information. Here's what we hope to have running: 2 F840c's 1 Brocade 2400 2 internal fibre channel bridges inside an Overland Data library a few other servers on the switch NetVault with dynamic drive sharing option So, should everything be fabric, do we need to zone, any other ideas? Thanks for your time,

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RE: Tape SAN Help
by Mike Ball 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

Ambrose, I have setup Tape San's before but not with Netapp. I may be able to help a bit here: 1) You will need to license the Brocade switch for Quickloop mode. You will need this because the Netapp logins into the fabric as a arbitrated loop. Set the ports the Netapps login into as Arbitrated loop mode. 2) How is the Overland Data logging into the fabric? Usually they will login to the switch as N_Port but check with the vendor. I believe Overland Data use the ATTO bridge. If they are N_Port they will login as full fabric. 3) I would zone each Netapps Fibre loop as a separate zone. For example, Zone 1 would consist of Netapp 1 FC port and both the Overland Data's FC ports. The second zone would consist of Netapp 2 and both the Overland Data's FC ports. Hope this helps, Mike -----Original Message----- From: Ambrose_Earle(a)shamrockfoods.com [mailto:Ambrose_Earle@shamrockfoods.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 6:40 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Tape SAN Help We are having enormous problems configuring our new tape libraries with our filers. We keep getting different answers from people and I hope that someone on this list has something similar in production and they would be willing to share their information. Here's what we hope to have running: 2 F840c's 1 Brocade 2400 2 internal fibre channel bridges inside an Overland Data library a few other servers on the switch NetVault with dynamic drive sharing option So, should everything be fabric, do we need to zone, any other ideas? Thanks for your time,

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RE: Solaris/Oracle/filer tuning question
by Bond, Andrew 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Chris, I normally recommend setting max_threads to at least 24. Have you got gigabit patch 106764? I think this affects reads across the board, but it's worth checking. Regards, Andrew Bond Network Appliance UK Consulting Systems Engineer Waterview House, 1 Roundwood Avenue, tel +44 (0)20-8756-6722 Stockley Park, mobile +44 (0)7801-383566 Middlesex, UB11 1EJ fax +44 (0)20-8756-6701 http://www.netapp.com Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Lamb [mailto:skeezics@measurecast.com] > Sent: 21 August 2001 18:08 > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Solaris/Oracle/filer tuning question > > > > Howdy, all. > > This is more a Solaris question, but since there's a filer > involved and > y'all are so helpful, I'll start with you guys. :-) > > The setup: > Sun E4500, Solaris 7 HW11/99+patches, GigE > NetApp F760, 5.3.6R2, GigE > Oracle 8.1.6.x > Two volumes for Oracle, NFSv3/UDP, 32K rsize/wsize > > The problem(s): > I/O from any single Oracle process tops out around 3-4MB/sec; > > Even with 'disk_asynch_io = false' in init.ora set to false, we > are getting sporadic and seemingly nonsensical "resource > temporarily unavailable" errors (had a case open for this one). > > The question: > Are any of the Solaris kernel NFS tunables useful in increasing > that apparent limit? Specifically: > nfs:nfs3_max_threads > nfs:nfs3_async_clusters > nfs:nfs3_nra > > The DBA and our NetApp reps/support team have gone over our > config, and > things are generally stable. After turning off asynch_io we noticed a > slight performance hit, but thought that the annoying "resource > temporarily unavailable" errors had been solved. We had another one > yesterday, first time in almost two months. :-/ > > In diagnosing the performance sluggishness, we noticed that for a > non-partitioned full table scan a single Oracle "reader" process was > limited to about 2.5-4MB/sec, while a full scan of a partitioned table > (using 6 readers) was getting 18-22MB/sec. (Obvious workaround: > increase the number of readers and writers, and partition the > table with > the bottleneck...) > > In each case, Solaris iostat was claiming that the NFS mount was "100% > busy", although response times were generally in the sub-6ms > range and the > filer's sysstat showed less than 20% cpu usage (this is a > production box, > so I can't completely isolate the load for our testing). For > _reads_ I > just can't figure out why Solaris - or Oracle itself - are throttling > performance like this... I've clocked > 50MB/sec reads in > plain old NFS > tests (bonnie, cpio, etc), and I think it's generally clear when we've > saturated the PCI bus on the filer. This Oracle bottleneck > is a mystery, > but now I'm wondering if the two problems are related. > > The Solaris Tunable Parameters Reference Manual says of the > "nfs:nfs3_max_threads" knob: > "Controls the number of kernel threads that perform asynchronous > I/O for the NFS version 3 _client_. [emphasis mine] Since NFS is > based on RPC and RPC is inherently synchronous, > separate execution > contexts are required to perform NFS operations that are > asynchronous from the calling thread." > > The default pool of threads is set to 8. There's some indication that > this may be a _per filesystem_ setting, and is not global to all NFS > client activity on the machine. Even if that's the case, > then 8 threads > per mount point might still be fairly restrictive on an 8-cpu machine, > given the fat pipe and headroom still available on the filer. > I generally > shy away from mucking about with Solaris internals ("this isn't your > father's SunOS" :-) but if that's what it takes to boost > performance I'm > all for it. > > Has anyone running in a similar environment had to tweak any Solaris > kernel tunables? Are there other Oracle/NetApp tuning hints > not discussed > in the whitepapers on the NOW site? My DBA and I would be > most grateful > for any warnings/suggestions/hints. :-) I'll be happy to provide more > detail off-list, then summarize results if anyone else is interested. > > Thanks, > > -- Chris > > -- > Chris Lamb, Unix Guy > MeasureCast, Inc. > 503-241-1469 x247 > <skeezics(a)measurecast.com> >

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RE: Netapp models?
by Traitel, Eyal 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Currently it will end up with the same page. Both F740 and F740c use the same platform (alpha), so they are the same. It could be that in the future this will change, so I guess a good practice is to choose the right model in the first place in order not to get an incorrect version. Eyal. ----------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Hoofddorp, The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Allen, Pat [mailto:pat@mbari.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 18:46 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Netapp models? OK... this begs another question.... On the NOW site, the page where you download software has a pulldown menu where you select the platform that you want. Is there any difference between DOT for a F740 and a F740c (for example)? Both pages list the same version of DOT. Does it really matter which platform I select to get my software? Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: Traitel, Eyal [mailto:eyal@netapp.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:58 AM To: 'Tim Longo'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Netapp models? The ending "c" is naming convention to mean that this is a pair of F760 clustered together. Physical differenece is that is 2xF760 with cluster kit. Hope it answers the question, Eyal. ----------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Hoofddorp, The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Tim Longo [mailto:tlongo@avaya.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 17:03 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Netapp models? What's the difference between an F7xx and an F7xxc? How would I know which is which?

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RE: Netapp models?
by Allen, Pat 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

OK... this begs another question.... On the NOW site, the page where you download software has a pulldown menu where you select the platform that you want. Is there any difference between DOT for a F740 and a F740c (for example)? Both pages list the same version of DOT. Does it really matter which platform I select to get my software? Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: Traitel, Eyal [mailto:eyal@netapp.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:58 AM To: 'Tim Longo'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Netapp models? The ending "c" is naming convention to mean that this is a pair of F760 clustered together. Physical differenece is that is 2xF760 with cluster kit. Hope it answers the question, Eyal. ----------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Hoofddorp, The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Tim Longo [mailto:tlongo@avaya.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 17:03 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Netapp models? What's the difference between an F7xx and an F7xxc? How would I know which is which?

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Netapp models?
by Tim Longo 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

What's the difference between an F7xx and an F7xxc? How would I know which is which?

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RE: Netapp models?
by Traitel, Eyal 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Be careful - Do not mix F760c with C760. F760c = clustered pair of F760 C760 = NetCache model name ----------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Hoofddorp, The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Mike Horwath [mailto:drechsau@tiny.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 17:45 To: Tim Longo Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Netapp models? On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 11:03:23AM -0400, Tim Longo wrote: > > > What's the difference between an F7xx and an F7xxc? How would I know > which is which? The 'c' model is the cache version used for proxy caching. -- Mike Horwath Admin & Manager @ VISI.com WORK: drechsau(a)visi.com IRC: Drechsau http://www.visi.com/ HOME: drechsau(a)geeks.org The only Minnesota ISP with public statistics: http://noc.visi.com/ Garbage In -- Gospel Out. - berkeley fortune(6)

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RE: Netapp models?
by Cormier, Darleen 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Hi Tim, Any models listed with a "c" implies a clustored system. -----Original Message----- From: Tim Longo [mailto:tlongo@avaya.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:03 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Netapp models? What's the difference between an F7xx and an F7xxc? How would I know which is which?

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RE: Netapp models?
by Traitel, Eyal 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

The ending "c" is naming convention to mean that this is a pair of F760 clustered together. Physical differenece is that is 2xF760 with cluster kit. Hope it answers the question, Eyal. ----------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Hoofddorp, The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Tim Longo [mailto:tlongo@avaya.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 17:03 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Netapp models? What's the difference between an F7xx and an F7xxc? How would I know which is which?

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[Fwd: Snapshot Cheats?]
by Alfred Lerch 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Hi folks, I have a somewhat similar issue; to reduce the size of snapshots I'd love to remove some files from the snapshots but I don't want to delete the whole snapshot - is there any way to do so ? regards alfred -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Snapshot Cheats? Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:19:21 +0200 From: "Kennard, Dave M SITI-ISEL-31" <Dave.M.Kennard(a)is.shell.com> To: "'toasters(a)mathworks.com'" <toasters(a)mathworks.com> List, Is there any way to cheat with snapshots so that data in them can be deleted? I have stupidly let a volume on my filer grow to capacity and want to free up space my moving files to another volume, if I just move the files I will get no gain in free disk space because the files will exist in the snapshot right? Could I cheat this by taking a snapshot of the volume before I delete the files then delete the snapshot after the file are deleted? Regards Dave Kennard

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toasters August 2001