toasters July 2001

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

105 participants
139 discussions

RE: Deleting data on NetApp.
by Bokkelkamp Ernst SBS ITS GDP 2 14 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

A more practical suggestion: Industrial strength electric drill. No joke. I know a company which deals with very confidentional information (a service provider for tax consultants) which drills a hole right through every old disk drive before it leaves the premises. -Ernst -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Montag, 9. Juli 2001 22:23 To: 'Jeffrey Krueger'; Fox, Adam Cc: 'Israel, Meital'; NetApp Mailing List (E-mail) Subject: RE: Deleting data on NetApp. Try an electromagnet. I hear they work wonders on disk data :) -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Krueger [mailto:jkrueger@qualcomm.com] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 3:56 PM To: Fox, Adam Cc: 'Israel, Meital'; NetApp Mailing List (E-mail) Subject: Re: Deleting data on NetApp. I just wish I could delete files on a NetApp from the console. It takes forever and a day to remove a hundred or more GB off a filer from either CIFS or NFS. An "rm" in the ONTAP CLI would be super handy. It could work *much* faster then over the wire. Further, an "rm -F" to delete files through the active file system and all snapshots would even be keener. =) -- Jeff On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:59:53AM -0700, Fox, Adam wrote: > This comes up quite a bit. It all depends on who how sophisticated > you think the person is who may be trying to retrieve the data is. > > For 99.99% of the world, just zero'ing the disks (even multiple times > if it makes you feel comfortable) is enough. > > I suppose you could create some dummy data to put on the disks after > you zero out the disks, then zero them out again. But that's a lot of > time and effort to get you from 99.99% to 99.999%. > > If you are concerned about professional, government-backed efforts to > recover the data, then your only real option is to destroy the disks > entirely. Bust them into thousands of pieces and dispose of those pieces > in different trash containers. While this is certainly expensive since > you can't return or re-use the disks, it is by far the most secure. > However, there are very few people who need this level of security, but > it's an option if your data abosulutely cannot ever be recovered. > > Hope this helps. > > -- Adam Fox > NetApp Professional Services, NC > adamfox(a)netapp.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Israel, Meital [mailto:meital.israel@intel.com] > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 8:55 AM > > To: NetApp Mailing List (E-mail) > > Subject: Deleting data on NetApp. > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > Does anyone know a utility to format the NetApp disks without > > being able to > > unformat it? > > > > Thanks, > > ************************************** > > Meital > > >

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RE: Deleting data on NetApp.
by Yoder, Alan 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

This leaves something like 90% of the data still accessible. If you're at this level of security I'd recommend chipping the drives into small pieces or immersing them in molten metal in a forge or mashing them beyond recognition with a 20 lb sledge. That last technique is even kinda fun. Have a party. In normal use, it is impossible to view the previous contents of a file once it and all snapshots containing it are deleted. WAFL zeroes every block before allocating it to a file, so you can't create a file and write to the millionth byte in the expectation of seeing a meg of info from deleted files the way you can on many other filesystems. Alan =============================================================== Alan G. Yoder, Ph.D. agy(a)netapp.com Network Appliance, Inc. Sunnyvale, CA 408-822-6919 =============================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: Bokkelkamp Ernst SBS ITS GDP 2 14 > [mailto:Ernst.Bokkelkamp@mch10.sbs.de] > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 2:26 PM > To: Honeycutt, Michael; 'Jeffrey Krueger'; Fox, Adam > Cc: 'Israel, Meital'; NetApp Mailing List (E-mail) > Subject: RE: Deleting data on NetApp. > > > A more practical suggestion: Industrial strength electric drill. > > No joke. I know a company which deals with very > confidentional information > (a service provider for tax consultants) which drills a hole > right through > every old disk drive before it leaves the premises. > > -Ernst > > -----Original Message----- > From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] > Sent: Montag, 9. Juli 2001 22:23 > To: 'Jeffrey Krueger'; Fox, Adam > Cc: 'Israel, Meital'; NetApp Mailing List (E-mail) > Subject: RE: Deleting data on NetApp. > > > Try an electromagnet. I hear they work wonders on disk data :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Krueger [mailto:jkrueger@qualcomm.com] > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 3:56 PM > To: Fox, Adam > Cc: 'Israel, Meital'; NetApp Mailing List (E-mail) > Subject: Re: Deleting data on NetApp. > > > I just wish I could delete files on a NetApp from the > console. It takes > forever and a day to remove a hundred or more GB off a filer > from either > CIFS or NFS. > > An "rm" in the ONTAP CLI would be super handy. It could work > *much* faster > then over the wire. Further, an "rm -F" to delete files > through the active > file system and all snapshots would even be keener. =) > > -- Jeff > > > On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:59:53AM -0700, Fox, Adam wrote: > > This comes up quite a bit. It all depends on who how sophisticated > > you think the person is who may be trying to retrieve the data is. > > > > For 99.99% of the world, just zero'ing the disks (even > multiple times > > if it makes you feel comfortable) is enough. > > > > I suppose you could create some dummy data to put on the disks after > > you zero out the disks, then zero them out again. But > that's a lot of > > time and effort to get you from 99.99% to 99.999%. > > > > If you are concerned about professional, government-backed > efforts to > > recover the data, then your only real option is to destroy the disks > > entirely. Bust them into thousands of pieces and dispose > of those pieces > > in different trash containers. While this is certainly > expensive since > > you can't return or re-use the disks, it is by far the most secure. > > However, there are very few people who need this level of > security, but > > it's an option if your data abosulutely cannot ever be recovered. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > -- Adam Fox > > NetApp Professional Services, NC > > adamfox(a)netapp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Israel, Meital [mailto:meital.israel@intel.com] > > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 8:55 AM > > > To: NetApp Mailing List (E-mail) > > > Subject: Deleting data on NetApp. > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > Does anyone know a utility to format the NetApp disks without > > > being able to > > > unformat it? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > ************************************** > > > Meital > > > > > >

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RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports
by Jay Newton 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

I looked real closely at the Highground stuff. There's a module called Prospector that will allow me to do what I need at the file level. I'm afraid that it's going to cost an arm and a leg, though. I haven't looked at BMC too closely yet but I will. Hopefully the price will be more attractive. Thank you all for your input. It has helped tremendously! -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Krueger [mailto:jkrueger@qualcomm.com] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 2:52 PM To: Honeycutt, Michael Cc: 'Coartney, Paul'; 'Jay Newton'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Re: Looking for drive space utilization reports This is true Michael. DFM is a very nice multi-filer management tool and is tightly integrated with the filers. It has lots of useful reports, especially for multi-filer sites that are trying to find a chunk of free space or figure out how much they can expand certain filers. DFM will not do two of the things Jay asked for though - it will not tell you the type of data using the space, nor will it tell you which users are putting it there. It is more designed to be a multi-filer management tool than a storage management tool. Highground will (somewhat) do what Jay is looking for. He may also consider looking into BMC. They bill their storage management tools as being "Application specific" - that is they have a capability of mapping certain applications (like Oracle) to data usage. Like Highground, BMC has an agent-based architecture; however, I'm not sure of Highground's support for "Tier 1 storage". BMC has agents for monitoring NetApp as well as EMC Symetrix, Hitachi, etc. Good luck Jay! -- Jeff On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:02:35PM -0400, Honeycutt, Michael wrote: > The reason I suggested Highground is because it has the ability to monitor > "soft" quotas. It wont enforce quotas on the filer, but it will e-mail users > when they are close to reaching their quota. As far as I know, the Data > Fabric Manager doesnt have this functionality. Is this true or is my mind > clouded from last weeks vacation? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Coartney, Paul [mailto:Paul.Coartney@netapp.com] > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 11:46 AM > To: Honeycutt, Michael; 'Jay Newton'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports > > > NetApp has a new tool called Data Fabric Manager that may fit your > requirements, and is a lot cheaper than highground. You may want to call > your sales rep and get a demo. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 4:59 AM > To: 'Jay Newton'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports > > > Try this link. http://www.highground.com/ <http://www.highground.com/> > FYI, this company is a subsidary of Sun Microsystems. They can arrange a > free demo if you are interested. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay Newton [mailto:jnewton@chkenergy.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:28 AM > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: Looking for drive space utilization reports > > > > I am trying to find a good tool, preferrably Windows-based, that can help me > gather statistics on space utilization. I need this for our F840 Filer we > currently use, but I would like to be able to use it to look at space usage > elsewhere. I'm needing statistics on how much drive space is used, the type > of data using it, and which users are putting it there. > > Anyone out there have any ideas? > > > Jay Newton > Systems Engineer > Chesapeake Operating > 6112-114 > (405)810-2683 > (405)879-9578 fax >

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RE: Deleting data on NetApp.
by Honeycutt, Michael 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

Try an electromagnet. I hear they work wonders on disk data :) -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Krueger [mailto:jkrueger@qualcomm.com] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 3:56 PM To: Fox, Adam Cc: 'Israel, Meital'; NetApp Mailing List (E-mail) Subject: Re: Deleting data on NetApp. I just wish I could delete files on a NetApp from the console. It takes forever and a day to remove a hundred or more GB off a filer from either CIFS or NFS. An "rm" in the ONTAP CLI would be super handy. It could work *much* faster then over the wire. Further, an "rm -F" to delete files through the active file system and all snapshots would even be keener. =) -- Jeff On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:59:53AM -0700, Fox, Adam wrote: > This comes up quite a bit. It all depends on who how sophisticated > you think the person is who may be trying to retrieve the data is. > > For 99.99% of the world, just zero'ing the disks (even multiple times > if it makes you feel comfortable) is enough. > > I suppose you could create some dummy data to put on the disks after > you zero out the disks, then zero them out again. But that's a lot of > time and effort to get you from 99.99% to 99.999%. > > If you are concerned about professional, government-backed efforts to > recover the data, then your only real option is to destroy the disks > entirely. Bust them into thousands of pieces and dispose of those pieces > in different trash containers. While this is certainly expensive since > you can't return or re-use the disks, it is by far the most secure. > However, there are very few people who need this level of security, but > it's an option if your data abosulutely cannot ever be recovered. > > Hope this helps. > > -- Adam Fox > NetApp Professional Services, NC > adamfox(a)netapp.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Israel, Meital [mailto:meital.israel@intel.com] > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 8:55 AM > > To: NetApp Mailing List (E-mail) > > Subject: Deleting data on NetApp. > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > Does anyone know a utility to format the NetApp disks without > > being able to > > unformat it? > > > > Thanks, > > ************************************** > > Meital > > >

1 0

RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports
by Honeycutt, Michael 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

The reason I suggested Highground is because it has the ability to monitor "soft" quotas. It wont enforce quotas on the filer, but it will e-mail users when they are close to reaching their quota. As far as I know, the Data Fabric Manager doesnt have this functionality. Is this true or is my mind clouded from last weeks vacation? -----Original Message----- From: Coartney, Paul [mailto:Paul.Coartney@netapp.com] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 11:46 AM To: Honeycutt, Michael; 'Jay Newton'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports NetApp has a new tool called Data Fabric Manager that may fit your requirements, and is a lot cheaper than highground. You may want to call your sales rep and get a demo. -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 4:59 AM To: 'Jay Newton'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports Try this link. http://www.highground.com/ <http://www.highground.com/> FYI, this company is a subsidary of Sun Microsystems. They can arrange a free demo if you are interested. -----Original Message----- From: Jay Newton [mailto:jnewton@chkenergy.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:28 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Looking for drive space utilization reports I am trying to find a good tool, preferrably Windows-based, that can help me gather statistics on space utilization. I need this for our F840 Filer we currently use, but I would like to be able to use it to look at space usage elsewhere. I'm needing statistics on how much drive space is used, the type of data using it, and which users are putting it there. Anyone out there have any ideas? Jay Newton Systems Engineer Chesapeake Operating 6112-114 (405)810-2683 (405)879-9578 fax

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CIFS Gigabit Performance?
by Ambrose_Earle＠shamrockfoods.com 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

Would anyone mind sharing the best throughput figures they've been able to sustain, for both writing and reading, to a filer via CIFS over fiber GigE? I'm trying to get a feel for what I should be able to attain. Also, any tuning suggestions would be most helpful. Thanks,

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RE: how to manage entries in the auditlog
by Thompson, Tim 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

> From: Hannes Herret [mailto:hh@bacher.at] > anyone knows the behaviour, that the opened java performance tool from > na_admin logs in the auditlog every few seconds. > the auditlog grows and grows ..... > is it possible to disable the logging for the performance-tool? I don't believe it's possible to selectively disable the logging of that information. If java in your browser is capable of doing UDP to the filer, it will use SNMP rather than HTTP to get the performance data, and it won't be logged. But this varies from browser to browser, so the best way to deal with this may be to either periodically filter the auditlogs or avoid running filerview's performance tool continuously. Tools that get data primarily through SNMP, like our new DataFabric Manager, will not cause the auditlog to grow like this. I've entered a burt about this, thanks for noting it. ...Tim Thompson...Network Appliance, Inc...

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RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports
by Coartney, Paul 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

NetApp has a new tool called Data Fabric Manager that may fit your requirements, and is a lot cheaper than highground. You may want to call your sales rep and get a demo. -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 4:59 AM To: 'Jay Newton'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports Try this link. http://www.highground.com/ <http://www.highground.com/> FYI, this company is a subsidary of Sun Microsystems. They can arrange a free demo if you are interested. -----Original Message----- From: Jay Newton [mailto:jnewton@chkenergy.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:28 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Looking for drive space utilization reports I am trying to find a good tool, preferrably Windows-based, that can help me gather statistics on space utilization. I need this for our F840 Filer we currently use, but I would like to be able to use it to look at space usage elsewhere. I'm needing statistics on how much drive space is used, the type of data using it, and which users are putting it there. Anyone out there have any ideas? Jay Newton Systems Engineer Chesapeake Operating 6112-114 (405)810-2683 (405)879-9578 fax

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RE: du -s after ndmpcopy - why are the filesizes different?
by Fox, Adam 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

I guess my question is how different were the results? A couple of percentage different is normal in dump/restore situations, which ndmpcopy is. Things like the restore making better use of blocks since it gets to re-write your data from scratch, etc. As far as verifying ndmpcopy, remember that ndmpcopy is just a native ONTAP dump/restore so any method you would use to verify your backups would also apply here. Most of them are not fun like what has been suggested of comparing file by file. If you trust your backups, you should be able to trust ndmpcopy. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Clawson, Simon [mailto:simon_clawson@mentorg.com] > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 8:11 AM > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: du -s after ndmpcopy - why are the filesizes different? > > > I ran an NDMP copy on my filer to take some qtrees from one volume to > another. When I ran du -s on each directory the results were > different in > most cases. > > The question I have is - > Is NDMP copy the tool for the job, and how do I verify the > results once I > have run it? > > Any ideas? > > Simon > > Simon Clawson > HDS Team Systems Administrator > Mentor Graphics Uk > Rivergate > London Road > Newbury > Berkshire > RG14 2QB > <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>> >

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RE: du -s after ndmpcopy - why are the filesizes different?
by McCarthy, Tim 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

Any chance someone changed maxfiles? -----Original Message----- From: Clawson, Simon [mailto:simon_clawson@mentorg.com] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 8:36 AM To: 'Leonard, Roger'; Clawson, Simon Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: du -s after ndmpcopy - why are the filesizes different? Yes, I took account of this. The file size is normally on the - rather than the + side tho. Also, I am running du -s below the top level, doing like for like comparisons of all sub directories. Simon > -----Original Message----- > From: Leonard, Roger [mailto:Roger.Leonard@marconi.com] > Sent: Monday July 2001 13:22 > To: 'Clawson, Simon' > Subject: RE: du -s after ndmpcopy - why are the filesizes different? > > > it will put a restoresymboltable file in the target dir which > can be quite > large. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clawson, Simon [mailto:simon_clawson@mentorg.com] > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 8:11 AM > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: du -s after ndmpcopy - why are the filesizes different? > > > I ran an NDMP copy on my filer to take some qtrees from one volume to > another. When I ran du -s on each directory the results were > different in > most cases. > > The question I have is - > Is NDMP copy the tool for the job, and how do I verify the > results once I > have run it? > > Any ideas? > > Simon > > Simon Clawson > HDS Team Systems Administrator > Mentor Graphics Uk > Rivergate > London Road > Newbury > Berkshire > RG14 2QB > <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>> >

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toasters July 2001