toasters August 2000

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

152 participants
177 discussions

RE: Removing disks from a volume
by Mike Sphar 28 Aug '00

28 Aug '00

It's worth taking a look at the trend in space utilization though, because it's entirely possible that at their current rate they may need to buy a new shelf X months down the road anyway, and if so it may be more cost-effective to just buy it now and save the headache and downtime involved with shrinking the existing volume. I find with our filers that I can pretty much plot out on a graph when a new shelf is needed, and it's usually less than a year. Of course, the moral of this story is: Be careful when you add disks to volumes. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services, BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Brian Tao [mailto:taob@risc.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 3:14 PM To: Bruce Sterling Woodcock Cc: Aaron Sherman; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Removing disks from a volume On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Bruce Sterling Woodcock wrote: > > Is the time worth the cost of another disk? I doubt it. ... plus a whole new disk shelf (and the space and power required) if he runs with full shelves with one spare, the way I suspect most people do. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

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I.T. SERVICE ANNOUNCMENT for Sat., Aug. 26th, 2000
by Murray, Brian 25 Aug '00

25 Aug '00

When: Saturday, August 26, 2000 at 4:00 PM PDT for 2.5 HOURS What: Migrate Internet network segments at Sunnyvale site Why: To complete the migration from Vendor X to Vendor Y network equip., the network segments that lead to the Internet must be migrated from the Vendor X switch to our existing Vendor Y network. Impact: The following web sites will be "off the air": * NOW web site * E-Market web site Other Internet services interrupted: * E-mail delivery * Chat

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Re: Removing disks from a volume
by mds＠gbnet.net 23 Aug '00

23 Aug '00

The real secret to this is re-laying out the filesystem data and altering and relaying out the metadata, which is why AFAIK, only VxFS can do this at the moment - it's perceived to be both hard and uncommon (despite all sysadmin's experiences to the contrary, and the manifest existence of fs-reorganisers) so most fs authors don't bother. Shrinking volumes, by comparison, is just moving a fencepost. It's what they contain that needs the work. -- -Mark ... an Englishman in New York ...

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Backup Questions
by Jay Orr 23 Aug '00

23 Aug '00

Hi all! So, we're evaluating backup software to replace Budtool. When we used budtool, it used Netapp's Dump to backup the files, not NDMP. Now, I don't claim to have all the ins-and-outs down on NDMP, but here's what I understand. NDMP does a sorta flow-control in one stream and dumps in another (or something like that). My particular questions: 1) Do all implementations of NDMP backup/restore at best only allow choosing directories and NOT files for restore/backup? 2) Does netapp's Dump work such that you can choose to backup/restore particular files? 3) How does netapp's Dump differ from the dump in the NDMP? It's all kinda fuzzy for me.... ----------- Jay Orr Systems Administrator Fujitsu Nexion Inc. St. Louis, MO

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netapp console to terminal server?
by Lyons, Jim 22 Aug '00

22 Aug '00

We are trying to attach our netapp db9 console ports to a cisco as2509-rj async rj45 lines, but are having no luck. The cisco h/w configuration documentation has a diagram for the db9 to rj45 pinout, but it does not work. Has anyone done this? Thanks, Jim

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Re: Removing disks from a volume
by Rick Hulsey 22 Aug '00

22 Aug '00

You've probably already thought about this, but could you just steal a spare from the other filer, or buy another disk to use as a spare? If the spare disk was your last spare in the filer and you can't buy or steal another spare or it forces you to another shelf, then it's worth going through this process. Otherwise you may want to just not mess with it. If you do have to deal with the problem by copying and recreating the volume, it seems like you ought to be able to get that downtime window to be smaller if you use snapmirror to mirror your problem volume to the new volume in the other filer. This at least cuts down on the time it takes to do the first copy. >>> Aaron Sherman <ajs(a)ajs.com> 08/21/00 10:46PM >>> On Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 10:23:13PM +0100, Mark Simmons wrote: > The real secret to this is re-laying out the filesystem data and altering > and relaying out the metadata, which is why AFAIK, only VxFS can do this > at the moment - it's perceived to be both hard and uncommon (despite > all sysadmin's experiences to the contrary, and the manifest existence > of fs-reorganisers) so most fs authors don't bother. Just in case a) this is what's being thought and b) there's anyone from NetApp listening: THIS WOULD NOT JUST BE A COOL FEATURE... IT WOULD SAVE ME DAYS OF EFFORT. You see, our database is on that volume, so we have to schedule database downtime, copy the data to a second filer (lucky we have one, or this'd be to tape!) and then back. It's probably going to be 1-3 hour process which will suck up our downtime window for a whole week! -- Aaron Sherman Systems Architect HighWired.com -- The global high school community http://www.highwired.com 300 North Beacon Street Watertown, MA 02472 (617) 926-1850 x238 (617) 926-1861 fax asherman(a)highwired-inc.com / ICQ#43677395 / Y!ajstrader "We had some good machines, but they don't work no more." -"Faded Flowers" / Shriekback

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RE: RCS issues with ONTAP 5.4.3R2
by Clawson, Simon 22 Aug '00

22 Aug '00

Sniff is produced by a company called MKS. I dont know if they have a web site, but we get our licenses etc through wind river. Bye Simon -----Original Message----- From: Todd C. Merrill [mailto:tmerrill@mathworks.com] Sent: 21 August 2000 20:29 To: 'Clawson, Simon' Subject: RE: RCS issues with ONTAP 5.4.3R2 On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Muhlestein, Mark wrote: > This is likely bug #21019, fixed in 5.3.5. Check with NetApp support to get the > exact recommended version, since the fix exists in many releases. Simon, Darn it. If I had read the description of bug 21019, I wouldn't have needed to post my wild-ass guesses. I filed that bug. ;) That bug was a re-introduction of bug 7111, which a former admin of our company filed years ago; it apparently got reintroduced into the code base for ONTAP when another much *larger* customer of NetApp's demanded it work *their* way, not according to the UNIX-style semantics. The option cifs.perm_check_ro_del_ok then got created to fix 21019 (and 7111, *again*) to make it work as it should. So, this product...Sniff, who makes it? We haven't found an RCS tool for pc's that doesn't corrupt our RCS files, but I haven't heard of this one yet. Until next time... The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7000 x7792 3 Apple Hill Drive, Natick, MA 01760-2098 508-647-7001 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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Re: Removing disks from a volume
by Eyal Traitel 22 Aug '00

22 Aug '00

It surely would. It was down in a shutdown of the company. eT. --- James R Grinter <jrg(a)acm.org> wrote: > On Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 02:28:46PM -0700, Eyal Traitel wrote: > > - About your specific problem - easy fix - just create new volume > > with two disks. mount it. Use a tool like rsync to copy all the > /etc > > to the new volume. > > Wouldn't that have implications for NFS Clients that have mounted > the file system and/or have files open? I'm thinking here of the > values inside the opaque (to the client) NFS file handles. > > James. ===== Yours, Eyal Traitel eTraitel(a)yahoo.com, Home: 972-3-5290415 (Tel Aviv) *** eTraitel - it's the new eBuzzword ! *** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail � Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: Removing disks from a volume
by Eyal Traitel 21 Aug '00

21 Aug '00

- The only "plex" I can think of in VxFS is "complex"... :) - I believe that this shrinking has very strict demands - you must defrag first, have enough space of course, and it probably takes hours... - A filer tries to distribute data over the spindles, so it makes it hard I believe. Anyway, you have the option to create large volumes, and seperate them logically to easily growing/shrinking qtrees, which are like filesystems. - About your specific problem - easy fix - just create new volume with two disks. mount it. Use a tool like rsync to copy all the /etc to the new volume. Run "rsh toaster0 vol offline myoldroot" - this is for taking it offline during the reboot (NOT NEEDED IN 6.0!!!). Run "rsh toaster0 vol options mynewvolume root" and then after one last rsync reboot. There you have it. It was done on a production system by myself - no problem. After some time you can of course issue: "rsh toaster0 vol destroy myoldroot" to erase volume. eT. --- Aaron Sherman <ajs(a)ajs.com> wrote: > On Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 12:38:40PM -0700, Eyal Traitel wrote: > > It would be lovely if there was such a RAID-filesystem... > > If anyone have heard of such - share with us... > > As noted by another, Veritas is capable of this. I've included an > excerpt from the docs, below: > > [begin vxassist man-page] > NAME > vxassist - create, mirror, backup, grow, shrink, and move > volumes > [...] > shrinkto and shrinkby > Decrease the length of the named volume to the length > specified by newlength (shrinkto), or by the length > specified by lengthchange (shrinkby). The new length > or change in length is specified as a standard Volume > Manager length [see vxintro(1M)]. The shrinkto opera- > tion fails if the new length is not less than the > current volume length. > [...end] > > Of course, this only shrinks the whole volume, but it is my > understanding that at that point, you can re-arange the plexes so > that > the disk you want to remove no longer has any plexes on it. It's ugly > and complex, but possible. It strikes me as very strange that a > system > that's otherwise so flexible does not allow this. We've really hosed > ourselves because on one Filer (while attempting to set up a volume > that we could volcopy to), we accidentally added disks to the root > volume. So, now we have to do what? Re-install? > > -- > Aaron Sherman > Systems Architect > HighWired.com -- The global high school community > http://www.highwired.com > > 300 North Beacon Street > Watertown, MA 02472 > (617) 926-1850 x238 > (617) 926-1861 fax > asherman(a)highwired-inc.com / ICQ#43677395 / Y!ajstrader > > "We had some good machines, but they don't work no more." > -"Faded Flowers" / Shriekback ===== Yours, Eyal Traitel eTraitel(a)yahoo.com, Home: 972-3-5290415 (Tel Aviv) *** eTraitel - it's the new eBuzzword ! *** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail � Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/

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RE: Removing disks from a volume
by Francett, Robert D (SAIC) 21 Aug '00

21 Aug '00

Anyone actually done this? I tried once on Veritas V2.5.xx, something like that, and, although the docs indicate shrinkage is possible the s/w didn't allow the operation. I had to offload the data, remove the volume & start over. Now, this was Veritas on a Solaris machine. Bob Francett BP Exploration (Alaska) -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Sherman [mailto:ajs@ajs.com] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:48 PM To: Eyal Traitel Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Removing disks from a volume On Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 12:38:40PM -0700, Eyal Traitel wrote: > It would be lovely if there was such a RAID-filesystem... > If anyone have heard of such - share with us... As noted by another, Veritas is capable of this. I've included an excerpt from the docs, below: [begin vxassist man-page] NAME vxassist - create, mirror, backup, grow, shrink, and move volumes [...] shrinkto and shrinkby Decrease the length of the named volume to the length specified by newlength (shrinkto), or by the length specified by lengthchange (shrinkby). The new length or change in length is specified as a standard Volume Manager length [see vxintro(1M)]. The shrinkto opera- tion fails if the new length is not less than the current volume length. [...end] Of course, this only shrinks the whole volume, but it is my understanding that at that point, you can re-arange the plexes so that the disk you want to remove no longer has any plexes on it. It's ugly and complex, but possible. It strikes me as very strange that a system that's otherwise so flexible does not allow this. We've really hosed ourselves because on one Filer (while attempting to set up a volume that we could volcopy to), we accidentally added disks to the root volume. So, now we have to do what? Re-install? -- Aaron Sherman Systems Architect HighWired.com -- The global high school community http://www.highwired.com 300 North Beacon Street Watertown, MA 02472 (617) 926-1850 x238 (617) 926-1861 fax asherman(a)highwired-inc.com / ICQ#43677395 / Y!ajstrader "We had some good machines, but they don't work no more." -"Faded Flowers" / Shriekback

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toasters August 2000