toasters November 2000

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

95 participants
94 discussions

Re: Exchange 2k
by Supak backup e-mail account 06 Nov '00

06 Nov '00

NetApp filer is fully supported for use with MS Exchange. I don't see how this could lead to a problem more than any direct-attaced storage. NetApp choking on lots of small files? I don't think so. WAFL handles small files far better than most file systems notably UFS. Waste of space? Maybe. NetApp uses 4K blocks so if you have lots of really small files <4K then you'll waste quite a bit of space. Supak --- Martin Hannigan <hannigan(a)world.std.com> wrote: > > > > > > For both performance and supportability reasons, > it is extremely inadvisable > > to put Exchange mailboxes/private stores/public > stores on anything other > > than a filesystem which is directly-connected to > the NT server in question. > > > > People do all sorts of odd things with NetApps > just because they can - and > > don't get me wrong, I love my F740 - but this is > just plain crazy. For your > > own peace of mind, don't do it. > > > So the netapp still chokes on lots of active small > files i.e. like > usenet news, etc? We were thinking about turning > ours into a hardcore > news spool..but I remember a few years ago there was > some issue with the > millions of < 64KB file sizes.. > > -M > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/

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Re: rsh return code
by Rick Hulsey 06 Nov '00

06 Nov '00

The problem with looking to get a return code is that there are really 2 programs running at the same time (rsh and the actual remotely executed program). The way rsh is designed the return code that you will see is coming from rsh. It's just a measurement of whether rsh was able to establish a connection to the remote system or not. In a nutshell, rsh does return 0 or 1 based on success or failure but rsh really has no view of the results of the program on the remote system. To do this, you need a more robust messaging capability like you might find in middleware products MQ, Tibco, etc, and these products can't run on filers. Another alternative is to capture and parse the output from the snap create command with the script that is calling rsh to create the snapshot. Rick Hulsey Southwest Airlines 2425 Wyman Mail Stop 4DC Dallas, Tx., 75235 rick.hulsey(a)wnco.com (214) 792-7188 Office (972) 880-6882 Cell (800) 915-3747 Pager >>> Brian Tao <taob(a)risc.org> 11/05/00 01:45PM >>> Probably a dumb question, but I just had a gigantic Sunday brunch buffet, so my brain is halfway into a food coma. ;-) Is it possible to have rsh return 0 or 1 depending on the success of a command executed on a filer? For instance, I want my backup scripts to kick off a "snap create" before they proceed, but I want to check the exit status of the rsh so I have a chance to abort and notify the operator if the snapshot is not created. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

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News Importance (Was: RE: Exchange 2k)
by Fox, Adam 06 Nov '00

06 Nov '00

Let's not assume that news is low priority in everyone's environment. Yes, in typical shops, News is low-priority. But let's say you're a big ISP who has a few million paying customers and one of the things they pay for is to read news. Now news becomes a bit more important. Or let's say you're a web site that provides a searchable archive for News articles. Now that data becomes business critical. One man's junk data is another man's gold. Just a bit of perspective. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 1:40 PM > To: 'Brian Tao'; Martin Hannigan > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Exchange 2k > > > > Is news so important to you that you would put it on a filer? > That's one thing I stick to JBOD... price out two terabytes of usable > storage on 50GB or 72GB drives in decent enclosures over U2SCSI or > FibreChannel, and compare it to an F760 with the same amount of space. > If you're concerned with performance of millions of small files, > switch to a different storage model... it will almost certainly be > cheaper than a big Netapp. > -- > > > Or switch to a more efficient method of running news (IE: Highwind). >

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RE: rsh return code
by Fox, Adam 06 Nov '00

06 Nov '00

I don't think rsh works that way..at least not to my experience. In my quick testing, rsh returns 0 if it successfuly runs a command on the filer, whether or not it's even a valid command, it succeeded to do what you asked. It returns 1 if the rsh fails, such as permission denied, connection timed out, etc. Feel free to let me know if someone has seen differently. You may want to capture the output and parse it to check if the command succeeded or failed...just a thought. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Tao [mailto:taob@risc.org] > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 2:46 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: rsh return code > > > Probably a dumb question, but I just had a gigantic Sunday brunch > buffet, so my brain is halfway into a food coma. ;-) Is it possible > to have rsh return 0 or 1 depending on the success of a command > executed on a filer? For instance, I want my backup scripts to kick > off a "snap create" before they proceed, but I want to check the exit > status of the rsh so I have a chance to abort and notify the operator > if the snapshot is not created. > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)risc.org) > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" >

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RE: ndmpcopy error message
by Krause, Oliver 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

You provided no password. Try: ndmpcopy netmmc:/vol/vol1/projects/nguc netmmc:/vol/vol2/nguc -sa root:<password-source-filer> -da root:<password-dest-filer> The root password is the one you use to login when you telnet to the filer ... Oliver -----Original Message----- From: Manny Kaiser [mailto:mkaiser@mmcnet.com] Sent: Sonntag, 5. November 2000 14:38 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: ndmpcopy error message I get the following error message when trying to use the ndmpcopy command (latest version 1.2) on a F840 running 5.3.6H1R2. The command and error messages are: ndmpcopy netmmc:/vol/vol1/projects/nguc netmmc:/vol/vol2/nguc Password: Connecting to netmmc. Connecting to netmmc. init: error sending NDMP_MOVER_LISTEN message: Error: Connection has not been authorized On the Netapp console I get: Nov 05 06:27:21 [ndmpd:33]: Top level IOException Nov 05 06:27:21 [ndmpd:34]: Top level IOException Nov 05 06:27:21 [ndmpd:33]: IO exception: Socket closed. Nov 05 06:27:21 [ndmpd:34]: IO exception: Socket closed. Any ideas?

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ndmpcopy error message
by Manny Kaiser 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

I get the following error message when trying to use the ndmpcopy command (latest version 1.2) on a F840 running 5.3.6H1R2. The command and error messages are: ndmpcopy netmmc:/vol/vol1/projects/nguc netmmc:/vol/vol2/nguc Password: Connecting to netmmc. Connecting to netmmc. init: error sending NDMP_MOVER_LISTEN message: Error: Connection has not been authorized On the Netapp console I get: Nov 05 06:27:21 [ndmpd:33]: Top level IOException Nov 05 06:27:21 [ndmpd:34]: Top level IOException Nov 05 06:27:21 [ndmpd:33]: IO exception: Socket closed. Nov 05 06:27:21 [ndmpd:34]: IO exception: Socket closed. Any ideas?

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RE: Exchange 2k
by Mohler, Jeff 04 Nov '00

04 Nov '00

Is news so important to you that you would put it on a filer? That's one thing I stick to JBOD... price out two terabytes of usable storage on 50GB or 72GB drives in decent enclosures over U2SCSI or FibreChannel, and compare it to an F760 with the same amount of space. If you're concerned with performance of millions of small files, switch to a different storage model... it will almost certainly be cheaper than a big Netapp. -- Or switch to a more efficient method of running news (IE: Highwind).

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RE: Exchange 2k
by rdobbins＠netmore.net 04 Nov '00

04 Nov '00

For both performance and supportability reasons, it is extremely inadvisable to put Exchange mailboxes/private stores/public stores on anything other than a filesystem which is directly-connected to the NT server in question. People do all sorts of odd things with NetApps just because they can - and don't get me wrong, I love my F740 - but this is just plain crazy. For your own peace of mind, don't do it. ----------------------------------------------------------- Roland Dobbins <rdobbins(a)netmore.net> // 818.535.5024 voice -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Carr [mailto:jcarr@caseshare.com] Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 3:22 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Exchange 2k We are in process of deploying Exchange 2k to our clients, but no one has been able to answer the question of weather or not we could store Exchange 2k mailboxes on our toaster (NetApp 720) and be Microsoft compliant. We are currently using our toaster to store general data i.e. pdf's doc's etc. I am sure that the toaster will be able to store the data, but the question is restoring data in the event of deleted mail boxes etc. Microsoft has not said anything about this type configuration on a Exchange 2k box. I know lots of people who are using their toasters to store Exchange 5.5 mail boxes but none using 2k as of yet. Has anyone tried this and what success/failure has any one encountered. I would like this work on the NetApp and not have to deploy and develop another storage solution, because in my mind there is nothing else out there that can beat a NetApp in availability and durability. Thanks, Jamie Carr

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RE: Exchange 2k
by Mohler, Anissa 04 Nov '00

04 Nov '00

:As far as using it for Exchange, *I* would, but that's me. :Generally, Microsoft and NFS don't mix well, even though :they give lots of lip service to it. Martin, To my knowledge MS and NFS don't mix well... but have you heard that NetApp Filers have been directly supporting SMB (or CIFS) protocol for years now. You don't have to use NFS to put Exchange or any other data on the filer. We use CIFS, which Microsoft also uses for NT networking. So you use the clients software and protocols native to Windows Platform machines. You simply license CIFS, add the filer to an NT4 or Windows 2000 domain (or run the filer in 'workgroup mode') and your clients see the filer 'just like' an NT4 member server. ... ... but that is the subject of another thread that I really don't want to start right now *grin* Its the weekend after all! Anissa

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RE: Exchange 2k
by Mohler, Anissa 04 Nov '00

04 Nov '00

Actually people are successfully running MS Exchange 5.5 on filers right now. No, Microsoft does not officially support Exchange on NAS (though Microsoft DOES support SQL 7 on Filers). So we have worked out additional agreements with IBM to support Exchange issues when the databases are on the filer. Some IT groups are not allowed, by company policy, to do anything that is not officially supported by their vendors. For those it is too bad. Others get the benefits of the filer and SnapManager for Exchange. Of course the decision is yours - or your CIO's, managers, etc. Check out the following white papers, see what you think. If you have any questions please feel free to ask... Microsoft Exchange and NetApp Filers : An Overview http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3067.html Technical Installation and Integration Supplement http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3054.html Recommendations for Deployment http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3074.html These Press Releases are also relevant : NetApp Unveils First Online Backup and Rapid Data Recovery Solution for MS Exchange http://www.netapp.com/news/press/news_rel_20000207.html NetApp Taps IBM for Microsoft Exchange Support Services http://www.netapp.com/news/press/news_rel_20000207a.html As far as Exchange 2000 on the filer, so far as I know, MS does not support that either. I know of one customer that was setting it up on the filer . He didn't call back with any problems so chances are its running smoothly. (I do tech support so I only hear from customers that have questions *grin*) On a side note, the customers I talk to that have contacted Microsoft about Exchange issues with their databases on the filer have not been 'hung up on' so to speak. BTW. If you want to talk to an Exchange Admin who LOVES Exchange on the filer let me know privately. I will not post his name or number here, but he is usually willing to talk to people about it. [of course this is only personal experience as I do not speak for MS or NetApp] Anissa :-----Original Message----- :From: Martin Hannigan [mailto:hannigan@world.std.com] :Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 6:52 PM :To: rdobbins(a)netmore.net :Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com :Subject: Re: Exchange 2k : : :> :> :> For both performance and supportability reasons, it is :extremely inadvisable to put Exchange mailboxes/private stores/public stores on :anything other than a filesystem which is directly-connected to the NT :server in question. :> :> People do all sorts of odd things with NetApps just because :they can - and don't get me wrong, I love my F740 - but this is just plain :crazy. For your own peace of mind, don't do it.

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toasters November 2000