toasters July 1999

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

90 participants
108 discussions

Re: Netapp hang and Security on NT2000b3
by Michael Salmon 21 Jul '99

21 Jul '99

+----- On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:20:21 CDT, "Mohler, Jeff" writes: | One of our customers is doing some evaluations of netapp. | While evaluating the new server he was using Windows(NT)2000. | He has defined some directories and files on the server from the NT. | While/after playing around (setting) with the security features on the | just defined files and directories the netapp server will hang. | Only reboot of the sever will revive it. | The customer claims he can recreate the problem at will. | Has anyone encountered such problems. | Do any of you have any words of wisdom? | The customer dos not like to accept the fact that win2000 is not yet | formally supported. he claims that win2000 talks CIFS, and even if MS is | doing wrong things at most the filer should complain but for sure not | hang... | --- | | Geesh..talk about a loose-loose situation. | | I would not expect NetApp to spend more than a _few_ man hours on this | problem, while they continue to hammer out solid released for solid software | platforms. | | While I agree it should not hang, theres no way to tell what NT2000 feature | is not working properly. | I think that you missed the point Jeff, the W2K machine can halt and catch fire for all I care but the filer should at worst have degraded performance, regardless of the provocation. That's why we pay more for filers than for an Alpha PC. /Michael

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Netapp hang and Security on NT2000b3
by Itzik (Itzhak) Meirson DSc 20 Jul '99

20 Jul '99

One of our customers is doing some evaluations of netapp. While evaluating the new server he was using Windows(NT)2000. He has defined some directories and files on the server from the NT. While/after playing around (setting) with the security features on the just defined files and directories the netapp server will hang. Only reboot of the sever will revive it. The customer claims he can recreate the problem at will. Has anyone encountered such problems. Do any of you have any words of wisdom? The customer dos not like to accept the fact that win2000 is not yet formally supported. he claims that win2000 talks CIFS, and even if MS is doing wrong things at most the filer should complain but for sure not hang... Thanks Itzik

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Upgrading F330 from 3.14 to 5.2.2P1
by Mike Ball 20 Jul '99

20 Jul '99

I am going to be upgrading a F330 filer from Data Ontap version 3.14 to 5.2.2P1. I know the firmware needs to be upgraded to version 1.9_i, memory to 128mg, and the NVRAM to 2mg. From talking to Network Appliance technical support, they stated it should not be a problem as long as the system is booted from the 5.2.2P1 boot disks and "booted without rc". Once I am booted up with 5.2.2P1 and exported the proper permissions to mount the filer as root, I will then be able to untar the 5.2.2P1 image over to the F330 and run download. What I am trying to find out is if anyone else has done a big a jump from a 3.x version of Ontap to a 5.x version of Ontap and if there where any problems you encountered. Thank you, Mike Ball

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RE: Backup alternatives (again)
by Yu, David 20 Jul '99

20 Jul '99

Lewis: Please see below. David > -----Original Message----- > From: Sherbak, Tim > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 8:10 AM > To: Yu, David > Subject: FW: Backup alternatives (again) > > > Hi David, > I don't know as you monitor this dl- so thought I would pass it along. > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lewis [mailto:lsa@netline.net.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 7:40 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Backup alternatives (again) > > > Hi everyone, > > This is a first time posting from someone new to NatApps, so > please bare with > me. I hve been subscribed to the list for a while and read > the archive to get > up to speed on passed discussions. > > I would appreciate it if list members could make suggestions > about what > alternative backup solutions are available and what kind of > (un)recommendations this group puts on these alternatives. > > This is a follow on from from previous discussions regarding > the use of > Budtool. I have taken over responsability for the backups as > Shiona Mceill > (former list contributer is on maternity leave). > > Due to our lack of success with the implementation of Budtool > and their recent > demise from the UK market, we have decided not to pursue this > solution. > > We have looked at Netbackup from Veritas. Any comments? Veritas introduced NDMP support for NetApp last year with 3.1.1 of NetBackup. NetBackup 3.2 is out now and adds support for NT, HP-UX, and AIX in addition to the Solaris support introduced with 3.1.1. Backups are to tape drives attached to the NetApp filer, and with 3.2, support for backup from Filer 1 to Filer 2's tape drive was implemented. Certification is done by Veritas, so support for some functionality may be staged. > > We are currently looking at Quick Restore from Workstation > Solutions. Any > comments? Workstation Solutions has been a very aggressive vendor and delivered a backup solution for NetApp very quickly. Backup to local tape drives, filer to filer backup (described above), and backup of Unix and NT server data to a filer's tape drive are all supported. Support is for DataONTAP 5.2 currently. A lot of different operating systems platforms are supported. For more details, please see: http://www.worksta.com/ > > As for platforms and configuration: We have 3+ F720 on 2 sites (ONTAP > 5.1.2R3). 3 suns running SunOS 5.7, ATL L500 Library (DTL > 7000 drive) and > potentially in the future a large number of linux boxes. > > NDMP has up until now been the preferred option as it seems > to be the way > forward with the NetApps. However, all that I have seen so > far indicates that > NDMP support in existing backup tools is a bit of a bolt > inclusion that does > not sit well with existing products or product architecture. Most of the NDMP solutions for NetApp utilize the dump/restore functionality in DataONTAP and the SCSI passthrough facility in NDMP for robotics control. While it's true that this fits in better with certain backup software architectures than others, remember that NDMP itself will still evolve. Over time, the standard will change and be extended to provide more flexibility and better support for various architectures. > > In order to configure the multiplatform network, dubious (built in) > workarounds have to be made to get the system to work. These > vary from > additional links being wired into the library (locally > attached to a NetApp), > so that the unix data can be backed-up, to dummy library > configuration for not > local (library) attachments to NetApps. > > All in all, any comments? Hopefully you will be able to tell > me that I don't > have a clue what I am on about and that it is all > straightforward. Somehow I > doubt this to be entirely the case, seeing the hoops we jumps > through with > budtool. > > here's hoping, > Lewis > > > > >

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RE: Non-NDMP backup solutions?
by Benn, Paul 20 Jul '99

20 Jul '99

> So, having switched away from NDMP, for the above reasons, I have no > burning desire to switch back, and am looking for backup solutions that > do not require it. Although not the scope of this list, I need to back > up Sun Solaris, IRIX & NT systems, as well. > > What is there available? If you want to back up a CIFS enabled filer and maintain UNIX- as well as NT-style file permissions, you'll need to use an NT backup solution. A UNIX backup solution will not retain the NT-style file permissions. If you use Legato NetWorker (supports the above mentioned OS's) with a UNIX based NetWorker server, you'll need to "front end" the filer with an NT server loaded with the NetWorker client (detailed in the below mentioned document). It's rumored that UNC paths can be used with NetWorker v5.5 (instead of mapped drive letters as documented in the below mentioned white paper). This white paper might be somewhat helpful: http://www.netapp.com/technology/level3/3052.html Regards, Paul Benn Network Appliance

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Scaling
by chris＠cecil.muscat.com 20 Jul '99

20 Jul '99

I've been doing some benchmarking on our filer (f540, dot4.3r4 256+8, 26 4g discs) and I'm trying to work out how things will scale on more recent filers. For our workload the filer pegs out doing around 1k nfs ops. This is slightly under half the sfs1 results. Is it fair to assume that given that data point that we can just scale the current models sfs2 results down by 1.25 to get the right sort of numbers? I know that sfs1/2 results are different but they do seem to be in the same ballpark. Workload is lots of small random reads which to me says number of spindles is going to be the critical factor which probably won't scale. Chris -- Chris Good - Muscat Ltd. The Westbrook Centre, Milton Rd, Cambridge UK Phone: 01223 715006 Mobile: 07801 788997 http://www.muscat.com

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RE: Backup alternatives (again)
by Mohler, Jeff 19 Jul '99

19 Jul '99

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FW: Backup alternatives (again)
by Yu, David 19 Jul '99

19 Jul '99

Jeff: We are aware that this is a widespread customer need. We have had some preliminary contact with ADSM, but discussions are still in the exploratory stage. Customers are the most effective catalyst in accelerating a joint solution. Please let your ADSM sales reps know of your need. This will reinforce the message that NetApp and ADSM have heard from the field. David -----Original Message----- From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@wilcom.com] Sent: Monday, July 19, 1999 5:39 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Backup alternatives (again) Ok..it's been a number of months..so it's time to ask my favorite question. ADSM support. Ive lost a truckload of potential Filer placements in our company (other than the four heads I have in clusters now) due to this missing backup ability, and Id like to know if theres an update on this.

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RE: Netapp hang and Security on NT2000b3
by Mohler, Jeff 19 Jul '99

19 Jul '99

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RE: Netapp hang and Security on NT2000b3
by Muhlestein, Mark 19 Jul '99

19 Jul '99

We have fixed a number of issues with Windows 2000 clients. Microsoft completely rewrote the client network redirector for Windows 2000, and it is quite different over the wire. Make sure the customer is running at least Windows 2000 beta 3 as a client, and you should make sure they are using the correct ONTAP version. Contact Netapp customer support to get information on what to use. Mark Muhlestein -- mmm(a)netapp.com -----Original Message----- From: Itzik (Itzhak) Meirson DSc [mailto:imeirson@xpert.com] Sent: Monday, July 19, 1999 10:43 AM To: $netapp Subject: Netapp hang and Security on NT2000b3 One of our customers is doing some evaluations of netapp. While evaluating the new server he was using Windows(NT)2000. He has defined some directories and files on the server from the NT. While/after playing around (setting) with the security features on the just defined files and directories the netapp server will hang. Only reboot of the sever will revive it. The customer claims he can recreate the problem at will. Has anyone encountered such problems. Do any of you have any words of wisdom? The customer dos not like to accept the fact that win2000 is not yet formally supported. he claims that win2000 talks CIFS, and even if MS is doing wrong things at most the filer should complain but for sure not hang... Thanks Itzik

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toasters July 1999