toasters October 1999

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

81 participants
89 discussions

RE: Max number of drives.
by Mohler, Jeff 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Im scratching some documents here.. I could have swore the last time I asked that I was told the larger drives would be counted as the smaller capacity drives after the parity drive. -----Original Message----- From: Thompson, Arnold Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:47 PM To: Mohler, Jeff; 'Jason Middlebrooks'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Max number of drives. I recall from mixing 9s and 18s at a customer site that you *can* add the 18s to an existing volume of 9s and still get 18G worth (minus filesystem overhead, snaps, etc.) from each 18G drive. The first 18G drive becomes parity and the 9G parity becomes a data drive (so you get 9G additional capacity from the first 18G drive), but after that you should get 18 and not 9. Historically, you've been able to mix and match with the filer doing the right thing. It is true that if a 9G drive fails and there is no 9G spare, it will rebuild on an 18G drive but you will only get 9G on that rebuilt drive. So be sure to have a spare of each size available. If anybody has tested this with different results I could be completely nuts, so please educate us! It is important to make the 9G shelves the lowest order shelves for FCAL loop initialization purposes, so make the 9G shelves numbers 0 and 1. Regards, Arnie > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:38 AM > To: 'Jason Middlebrooks'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > Sure, no problem. > > But when you add them to a volume (if you are not creating a > new one) make sure > you add them to the volume made up of 18G drives. (That is, > if the 18G drives > are a separate volume from the 9G ones). > > If you mix/max drive sizes in a volume, the larger drives > will appear only to be > the size of the smallest drive in the array. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Max number of drives. > > > Question. > > I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 > drives. Can I > add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? > > The filer is a F760 > > Thanks in advance > Jason Middlebrooks >

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RE: Max number of drives.
by Thompson, Arnold 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

I recall from mixing 9s and 18s at a customer site that you *can* add the 18s to an existing volume of 9s and still get 18G worth (minus filesystem overhead, snaps, etc.) from each 18G drive. The first 18G drive becomes parity and the 9G parity becomes a data drive (so you get 9G additional capacity from the first 18G drive), but after that you should get 18 and not 9. Historically, you've been able to mix and match with the filer doing the right thing. It is true that if a 9G drive fails and there is no 9G spare, it will rebuild on an 18G drive but you will only get 9G on that rebuilt drive. So be sure to have a spare of each size available. If anybody has tested this with different results I could be completely nuts, so please educate us! It is important to make the 9G shelves the lowest order shelves for FCAL loop initialization purposes, so make the 9G shelves numbers 0 and 1. Regards, Arnie > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:38 AM > To: 'Jason Middlebrooks'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Max number of drives. > > > Sure, no problem. > > But when you add them to a volume (if you are not creating a > new one) make sure > you add them to the volume made up of 18G drives. (That is, > if the 18G drives > are a separate volume from the 9G ones). > > If you mix/max drive sizes in a volume, the larger drives > will appear only to be > the size of the smallest drive in the array. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Max number of drives. > > > Question. > > I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 > drives. Can I > add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? > > The filer is a F760 > > Thanks in advance > Jason Middlebrooks >

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RE: Max number of drives.
by Mohler, Jeff 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Sure, no problem. But when you add them to a volume (if you are not creating a new one) make sure you add them to the volume made up of 18G drives. (That is, if the 18G drives are a separate volume from the 9G ones). If you mix/max drive sizes in a volume, the larger drives will appear only to be the size of the smallest drive in the array. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Max number of drives. Question. I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 drives. Can I add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? The filer is a F760 Thanks in advance Jason Middlebrooks

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Max number of drives.
by Jason Middlebrooks 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Question. I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 drives. Can I add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? The filer is a F760 Thanks in advance Jason Middlebrooks

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RE: Max number of drives.
by Alvarado, Michael 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

You can add the additional 7 disks since that will still be less than the maximum storage capacity currently supported on an F740. The maximum capacity of an F740 is 928 GB. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Middlebrooks [mailto:Jason_Middlebrooks@datalink.com] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:01 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Max number of drives. Question. I have 14 9Gig drives and 14 18Gig drives. So a total of 28 drives. Can I add 7 more 18Gig drives on the same loop? The filer is a F760 Thanks in advance Jason Middlebrooks

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More Backup Questions
by Jay Orr 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Hi. Still curious about this all. Thanks for all the info people have sent me. Here's some more questions. I'm working from a system where we have a jukebox hanging off a sun box backing up an F330 (well, there's more then this, but I'm keeping it simple). 1) Does the current (5.3.2r1) version support NDMP v3? a) If not is v3 support planned and for when? 2) What (if any) advantage is there using NDMP vs. Dump (dump.FAServer)? 3) Which is better/faster for individual file restores (i.e. one or two files only)? 4) Can you extract a file out of a NDMP dump onto a different file system (i.e. onto a sun box)? 5) Are both snapshot backups (NDMP & dump.FAServer)? Important for ClearCase users.... 6) Any problems spanning NDMP dumps over multiple tapes? Concerns that bring me to these questions : 1) Budtool (now Legato) not wanting to support dump.FAServer types. vs 2) End of Life on the F330's. ----------- Fujitsu - Nexion, St. Louis, MO Jay Orr (314) 579-6517

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Re: More Backup Questions
by Darrell Fuhriman 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Jay Orr <orrjl(a)stl.nexen.com> writes: all of my answers assume you're backing up to local tape. > 1) Does the current (5.3.2r1) version support NDMP v3? No. the standard has not been finalized and to my knowledge no one has implemented it. > a) If not is v3 support planned and for when? I'm trying to find the answer to this myself. > 2) What (if any) advantage is there using NDMP vs. Dump (dump.FAServer)? well, NDMP will work with your backup software better. Keep in mind, NDMP is nothing but a dump which spits back some meta information to the backup server. > 3) Which is better/faster for individual file restores > (i.e. one or two files only)? they're equally bad for the reason given above. > 4) Can you extract a file out of a NDMP dump onto a different file system > (i.e. onto a sun box)? you should be able to, though frankly I've never tried it. > 5) Are both snapshot backups (NDMP & dump.FAServer)? Important for > ClearCase users.... yes. > 6) Any problems spanning NDMP dumps over multiple tapes? no. Darrell

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HTTP on a filer
by mitch＠netline.com 06 Oct '99

06 Oct '99

Greetings. I hope there are some folks out here that have experience using a filer as an HTTP server. First some specifics: Filer: F740, 512MB RAM, 32MB NVRAM, FC disks, 100Mbit switched Enet conn. Version: NetApp Release 5.3.2R1: Thu Aug 12 19:16:27 PDT 1999 We purchased the HTTP protocol license to offload images to the filer directly rather than have an intermediate host serve them up by grabbing them off that filer. After some basic testing we put this into the start of production and all was well, though first connections by a browser seemed to lag a bit, subsequent connections were fine. All was well for about 2 weeks when things came to a crawl and finally to a stop. Several observations 1. httpstat reported 512 peak and 512 open connections. 2. despite doing an "options httpd.enable off" and leaving it down for a while, open conn. never dropped and the http server was non-responsive. I even tweak the timeout down to 30, which is the lowest it can go. 3. NFS service was seemingly unaffected 4. netstat reported *many* (512?) connections in either ESTABLISHED or CLOSE_WAIT and those connections didn't seem to ever go away. 5. The log file was at it's maximum. I moved it to another filename and did an httpd.enable on then off, but another log file was never written to. How do you rotate the logs on a filer for HTTP? A possible kink in the matter is that I am using the VH interface and have two IP's aliased to it, the filer's address is aaa.bbb.ccc.xxx and then it has: ifconfig vh alias aaa.bbb.ccc.yyy ifconfig vh alias aaa.bbb.ccc.zzz I then use the httpd.hostprefixes to map each VH to the appropriate area: /path/YYY host-y.domain.com aaa.bbb.ccc.yyy /path/ZZZ host-z.domain.com aaa.bbb.ccc.zzz /path/TESTy test-y.domain.com /path/TESTz test-z.domain.com and this all works fine as far as things being pointed to the right places. All of this leaves me with some questions: 1. How do you turn off httpd on a filer? "options httpd.enable off" does not seem to do the trick. After doing that, if I telnet to port 80 I do not get a connection refused, it just sits there. At least when it was in this "hung" state. 2. How do you rotate log files. Actually, for the images, I don't want the log file at all, but the manual doesn't say how to make it go to the filer equivalent of /dev/null. 3. Can the number of connections be raised from 512? Can the timeout be made shorter than 30 seconds? Can the filer close idle/lost connections faster? 4. Is this a known problem with a fix? NOW didn't seem to have anything that I thought matched the problem. 5. Is it reasonable to even put a filer's HTTP into an environment that will generate roughly several million hits per day? -- do svidaniya, ~mitch

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converting a disk to be a hot-spare
by Mitch Wright 06 Oct '99

06 Oct '99

Greetings, I've got an F220 running 4.3.3. It is doing fine and we've recently moved all of it's workload off to another filer. This filer had all of the disks in use for data (sans the one for parity of course), but what I'd like to do is take back a disk as a hot-spare. There is no longer any data on the filer that we care about with the exeception of the OS itself. Is there a way I can reclaim one of the disks as a hot-spare without reinstalling from scratch? -- do svidaniya, ~mitch

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Re: Backup restore times
by Darrell Fuhriman 06 Oct '99

06 Oct '99

Dave Heiland <dheiland(a)lucent.com> writes: > entire filer. Thats just about ok, but the problem is that restores of user > files can also take up to 8 hours which is a bit long. The problem may get even It's much, much too long in fact. One has the option of making smaller volumes, but that's not always the best option. The problem is *greatly* aggravated if one has to use incrementals also. One thing that would really, really help is if the NDMP v3 spec were (finally) finalized and implemented. v3 includes the ability to send tape positioning information to the backup system, meaning restores can quickly find the correct tape file & record for a given disk file. I don't like the fact that the positioning information is defined on an implementation specific basis, though. After that, netapp needs to either modify dump, or create another backup utility that can actually make use of said information. Disk capacity is rapidly out-pacing tape capacity and speed -- an issue Netapp needs to address sooner rather than later. Doing dump on a 400 GB filesystem (6 dlt7000's!) is down right primitive. Darrell

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toasters October 1999