Have you priced 630 memory lately? I was quoted $12,000 for a 32 meg nvram, 256 meg system ram upgrade. Thats not dropping to me.
--- On Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:30:52 +1100 Mike Bosch mbosch@netapp.com wrote:
Marc,
As I recall, Cisco was requiring 64MB and recommending 128MB on most ISP 7500s over a year ago. Whatever......the point is that memory
requirements
will continue to grow over time.
The good news is that as more features have required more memory, the
price
of memory has dropped at an even faster rate.
MJB
At 22:21 25/03/98 -0500, Marc Nicholas wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Mike Bosch wrote:
A Filer is generically much more like a router than a general purpose
Unix
or NT box, but we still require much less space than Cisco's IOS, for
example.
Excuse me? You require less memory than IOS? Did I suddently reappear
in
another universe where IOS requires 128mb to run? :-p
You can even run a couple of full BGP views in a Cisco with 64mb -- and that's to compensate for Cisco's braindead table archietecture.
-marc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Hippocampus OSD, Inc. "Industrial Strength Internet Solutions" vox://416.979.9000 fax://416.979.8223 http://www.hippocampus.net
Mike Bosch Regional Manager Network Appliance Australia - New Zealand
Phone: 61-41-728-7345 Email: mbosch@netapp.com
FAST SIMPLE RELIABLE MULTI-PROTOCOL
-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
David Power V-P Operations Insync Internet Services Inc.
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, David Power wrote:
|Have you priced 630 memory lately? I was quoted $12,000 for a 32 meg |nvram, 256 meg system ram upgrade. Thats not dropping to me.
Netapps ram prices are borderline on fraud. Please show me the added value Netapp. All netapp does is buy Samsung DRAM and Dallas SEmiconductor NVRAM, then drops them in a memory tester.
THEN, they raise the price 1,000%.
The 1M NVRAM simms in our F220 were $84/each (quantity 1), and I believe the 4M NVRAM simms in our F630 were $200 or so. The netapp price (After discount) was several orders of magnitude higher.
Another issue: Netapp hard drive prices
Our latest quote on an upgrade for an F630 at a 41% discount level had the 9gig hard drives at $2900/each.
Same model drive from a reseller off http://www.pricewatch.com
Seagate 9.1GB ST19171W Barracuda Ultra Wide SCSI 8ms $ 739 De Vine Computer Sales 800-699-4049
Hmm....4 drives for the price of 1 magic netapp drive? The burnin testing it just not flying with me. For the price savings on a 26drive upgrade, we could buy *ANOTHER* F630 chassis to use just for burning in drives/ram.
Will netapp disclose their burin software by chance?
Jonah "Who doesn't work for a fortune500 company and actually pays attention to budgets" Yokubaitis
Jonah Barron Yokubaitis | Austin|San Antonio|Houston President | Dallas|Fort Worth|Boerne Texas.Net | Georgetown|Dripping Springs http://www.texas.net | Making 56k affordable
+--- In a previous state of mind, Jonah Yokubaitis barron@staff.texas.net wrote: | | Netapps ram prices are borderline on fraud. Please show me the added | value Netapp. All netapp does is buy Samsung DRAM and Dallas | SEmiconductor NVRAM, then drops them in a memory tester.
I disagree with the fraud part... but the rest can be said about any other vendor.
How much is that memory in your cisco router?
How about Sun memory?
Now, the difference between NetApp and the others is that you can get approved (warranted) 3rd party parts.
Granted, my investment in the NetApp filer is much greater than that for any Cisco device (or any specific Sun).
| Our latest quote on an upgrade for an F630 at a 41% discount level had | the 9gig hard drives at $2900/each.
This sounds wierd. I think the list price is not even $2900. $2500, I believe. After a 41% discount (wow, how did you get that?), they should come in around $1500. Which is still 2x the price you listed below.
| $ 739 | De Vine Computer Sales | 800-699-4049 | | | Hmm....4 drives for the price of 1 magic netapp drive? The burnin | testing it just not flying with me. For the price savings on a 26drive | upgrade, we could buy *ANOTHER* F630 chassis to use just for burning | in drives/ram.
Will DeVine also send you over-night replacement disks (in carriers)? Will they be able to send you drives with specific firmware revs which are correctly supported?
| Will netapp disclose their burin software by chance?
I think they assemble the systems and beat the crap out of them
| Jonah "Who doesn't work for a fortune500 company and actually pays | attention to budgets" Yokubaitis
Having a large budget for capital purchases and trying to get the best value you can are not mutually exclusive.
Buying your own parts and stocking spares is not something I want to do. I have been there, done that and it sucks. That is why we went away from PC's as servers at my previous job. And why we bought the stuff from NetApp, high markup and all.
This whole topic has been beaten to death.
Alexei
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Alexei Rodriguez wrote:
How much is that memory in your cisco router? How about Sun memory?
I don't have Cisco prices handy, but with our Fujitsu discount on Sun equipment, it ends up being "only" about 150% that of non-discounted parts from Kingston.
Now, the difference between NetApp and the others is that you can get approved (warranted) 3rd party parts.
Kingston has replacement warranties for their products, tested in other vendors' hardware (Sun for sure, dunno about Netapps). In any case, the remaining filer components are still under Netapp warranty.
| Hmm....4 drives for the price of 1 magic netapp drive? The burnin | testing it just not flying with me. For the price savings on a 26drive | upgrade, we could buy *ANOTHER* F630 chassis to use just for burning | in drives/ram.
Will DeVine also send you over-night replacement disks (in carriers)? Will they be able to send you drives with specific firmware revs which are correctly supported?
Our vendor can source specific firmware revs on drives. As for overnight replacement... who cares? For the price of one Netapp drive, we can have one third-party sourced drive in the chassis and two or three others sitting in cabinet as cold spares. Four-hour turnaround time sometimes isn't fast enough. Stock your own spares where possible, so you don't have to rely on your vendor or on courier companies during a crisis. Netapp's prohibitive pricing on components makes it much more difficult to do that.
| Will netapp disclose their burin software by chance?
I think they assemble the systems and beat the crap out of them
We seem to be able to beat the crap out of the filers better than Netapp can, judging by the results of our in-house burn-ins for our eight units.
Having a large budget for capital purchases and trying to get the best value you can are not mutually exclusive.
Amen... if my budget suddenly doubles in size, it doesn't mean I'll go buy components that are twice as expensive. I'll want to buy twice as much of the same thing. ;-)
Call Kingston, they had the NVRAM and RAM that Netapp used as I recall, and it plugs in and works fine, and you don't have to get taken to the cleaners.
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, David Power wrote:
Have you priced 630 memory lately? I was quoted $12,000 for a 32 meg nvram, 256 meg system ram upgrade. Thats not dropping to me.
--- On Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:30:52 +1100 Mike Bosch mbosch@netapp.com wrote:
Marc,
As I recall, Cisco was requiring 64MB and recommending 128MB on most ISP 7500s over a year ago. Whatever......the point is that memory
requirements
will continue to grow over time.
The good news is that as more features have required more memory, the
price
of memory has dropped at an even faster rate.
MJB
At 22:21 25/03/98 -0500, Marc Nicholas wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Mike Bosch wrote:
A Filer is generically much more like a router than a general purpose
Unix
or NT box, but we still require much less space than Cisco's IOS, for
example.
Excuse me? You require less memory than IOS? Did I suddently reappear
in
another universe where IOS requires 128mb to run? :-p
You can even run a couple of full BGP views in a Cisco with 64mb -- and that's to compensate for Cisco's braindead table archietecture.
-marc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Hippocampus OSD, Inc. "Industrial Strength Internet Solutions" vox://416.979.9000 fax://416.979.8223 http://www.hippocampus.net
Mike Bosch Regional Manager Network Appliance Australia - New Zealand
Phone: 61-41-728-7345 Email: mbosch@netapp.com
FAST SIMPLE RELIABLE MULTI-PROTOCOL
-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
David Power V-P Operations Insync Internet Services Inc.
-
Alexei Rodriguez -
Brian Tao -
David Power -
Jaye Mathisen -
Jonah Yokubaitis