Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers,
Marcus Bui
Marcus, Blade servers generally can and should be purchased with 2 disks for mirrored OS, SWAP and some binaries. Given that the smallest disk you can get now exceeds your DAS requirement by 8X plus I'd say they all get local DAS. This would allow you a single set of spares, cookie cutter software installation, etc. Also, I don't think a typical Win2000 system can easily boot without a disk
I'm not aware of any blade servers having single or dual fibre channel out of the back of each blade so DAS on the filer is out of the question. The HP Proliant BL 10e has Gbit out of the back with a Gbit consolidation switch built in to cut way down on the cable mess.
With regard to your data storage - everything should go onto the filer(s) for all the obvious reasons. Even the sources for the images that will go on the local DAS. You don't want to manage N file and OS spaces on N blades. One place to back up, no blade server is different from the rest, the world scales easily.. Free time to do something interesting.
Good luck,
Hunter M. Wylie 21193 French Prairie Rd Suite 100 St. Paul, Oregon 97137-9722 Bus: 866-367-8900 FAX: 503-633-8901 Cell: 503-880-1947
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Bui, Marcus Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:11 AM To: 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: blade servers to Filer
Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers, Marcus Bui
It's worth noting that the IBM bladecenter can do fibre channel on the blade with the fibre switches embedded in the chassis. Very nice solution, actually.
Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com http://www.gridapp.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Wylie Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:48 AM To: 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Marcus, Blade servers generally can and should be purchased with 2 disks for mirrored OS, SWAP and some binaries. Given that the smallest disk you can get now exceeds your DAS requirement by 8X plus I'd say they all get local DAS. This would allow you a single set of spares, cookie cutter software installation, etc. Also, I don't think a typical Win2000 system can easily boot without a disk
I'm not aware of any blade servers having single or dual fibre channel out of the back of each blade so DAS on the filer is out of the question. The HP Proliant BL 10e has Gbit out of the back with a Gbit consolidation switch built in to cut way down on the cable mess.
With regard to your data storage - everything should go onto the filer(s) for all the obvious reasons. Even the sources for the images that will go on the local DAS. You don't want to manage N file and OS spaces on N blades. One place to back up, no blade server is different from the rest, the world scales easily.. Free time to do something interesting.
Good luck,
Hunter M. Wylie 21193 French Prairie Rd Suite 100 St. Paul, Oregon 97137-9722 Bus: 866-367-8900 FAX: 503-633-8901 Cell: 503-880-1947
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Bui, Marcus Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:11 AM To: 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: blade servers to Filer
Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers, Marcus Bui
MessageRight, that's exactly what we are working with right now. Actually some of the IBM blades can be beefy enough to serve as SQL servers within a cluster. The problem I am having is that the VLD drivers do not offer enough speed as advertised. NetApp wants some data from me that I just haven't had enough time to collect but I was also wondering if anyone else out there is using the combo of a filer/blade servers.
Before you ask, we need the VLD because SQL will not put the data on the UNC (\server\path) drive. The VLD makes a remote filer volume look like a local drive, thus fooling the SQL server on working.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:52 PM To: 'Hunter Wylie'; 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
It's worth noting that the IBM bladecenter can do fibre channel on the blade with the fibre switches embedded in the chassis. Very nice solution, actually.
Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Wylie Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:48 AM To: 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Marcus,
Blade servers generally can and should be purchased with 2 disks for mirrored OS, SWAP and some binaries. Given that the smallest disk you can get now exceeds your DAS requirement by 8X plus I'd say they all get local DAS. This would allow you a single set of spares, cookie cutter software installation, etc. Also, I don't think a typical Win2000 system can easily boot without a disk
I'm not aware of any blade servers having single or dual fibre channel out of the back of each blade so DAS on the filer is out of the question. The HP Proliant BL 10e has Gbit out of the back with a Gbit consolidation switch built in to cut way down on the cable mess.
With regard to your data storage - everything should go onto the filer(s) for all the obvious reasons. Even the sources for the images that will go on the local DAS. You don't want to manage N file and OS spaces on N blades. One place to back up, no blade server is different from the rest, the world scales easily.. Free time to do something interesting.
Good luck,
Hunter M. Wylie
21193 French Prairie Rd
Suite 100
St. Paul, Oregon 97137-9722
Bus: 866-367-8900
FAX: 503-633-8901
Cell: 503-880-1947
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Bui, Marcus Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:11 AM To: 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: blade servers to Filer
Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers,
Marcus Bui
MessageHave you looked at iSCSI? It is very simple to install and attach an Intel or Adaptec TOE card to the NetApp filer. We are currently evaluating 2 Win2K servers, one running SQL and the other Oracle using iSCSI. The performance is as good as if not better than the local drives. These are not huge databases though, but for small workgroup use, but need large storage, ~500GB (combination of database and image files) and we didn't want the users to buy Dell disk arrays. I would rather use iSCSI instead of VLD, because I think that's the direction even NetApp is moving to. -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Nicko Demeter To: Matthew Zito ; 'Hunter Wylie' ; 'Bui, Marcus' ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Right, that's exactly what we are working with right now. Actually some of the IBM blades can be beefy enough to serve as SQL servers within a cluster. The problem I am having is that the VLD drivers do not offer enough speed as advertised. NetApp wants some data from me that I just haven't had enough time to collect but I was also wondering if anyone else out there is using the combo of a filer/blade servers.
Before you ask, we need the VLD because SQL will not put the data on the UNC (\server\path) drive. The VLD makes a remote filer volume look like a local drive, thus fooling the SQL server on working.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:52 PM To: 'Hunter Wylie'; 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
It's worth noting that the IBM bladecenter can do fibre channel on the blade with the fibre switches embedded in the chassis. Very nice solution, actually.
Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Wylie Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:48 AM To: 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Marcus,
Blade servers generally can and should be purchased with 2 disks for mirrored OS, SWAP and some binaries. Given that the smallest disk you can get now exceeds your DAS requirement by 8X plus I'd say they all get local DAS. This would allow you a single set of spares, cookie cutter software installation, etc. Also, I don't think a typical Win2000 system can easily boot without a disk
I'm not aware of any blade servers having single or dual fibre channel out of the back of each blade so DAS on the filer is out of the question. The HP Proliant BL 10e has Gbit out of the back with a Gbit consolidation switch built in to cut way down on the cable mess.
With regard to your data storage - everything should go onto the filer(s) for all the obvious reasons. Even the sources for the images that will go on the local DAS. You don't want to manage N file and OS spaces on N blades. One place to back up, no blade server is different from the rest, the world scales easily.. Free time to do something interesting.
Good luck,
Hunter M. Wylie
21193 French Prairie Rd
Suite 100
St. Paul, Oregon 97137-9722
Bus: 866-367-8900
FAX: 503-633-8901
Cell: 503-880-1947
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Bui, Marcus Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:11 AM To: 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: blade servers to Filer
Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers,
Marcus Bui
Definitely - iSCSI is the way of the future, and in the next few years even traditional SANs will start to be supplanted by iSCSI networks. The only downside is that for high-performance iSCSI throughput you need TOE cards on both sides - the host and the storage. With blade servers there's no option for custom ethernet cards, so unless your manufacturer provides them on the blade, you're out of luck. I seem to recall IBM discussing with us that there were plans for TOE cards for the blades but the timeframes were hazy and distant.
Today, if you need high-performance block i/o for the blades, your best bet is really to pony up the extra cash for the fibre I/o adapters for the blades and the fibre switches and deploy a SAN.
Thanks, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com http://www.gridapp.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Net Backer Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:46 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: blade servers to Filer
Have you looked at iSCSI? It is very simple to install and attach an Intel or Adaptec TOE card to the NetApp filer. We are currently evaluating 2 Win2K servers, one running SQL and the other Oracle using iSCSI. The performance is as good as if not better than the local drives. These are not huge databases though, but for small workgroup use, but need large storage, ~500GB (combination of database and image files) and we didn't want the users to buy Dell disk arrays. I would rather use iSCSI instead of VLD, because I think that's the direction even NetApp is moving to. -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Nicko Demeter mailto:nicko@rack.org To: Matthew Zito mailto:mzito@gridapp.com ; 'Hunter mailto:hwylie@stpaultel.com Wylie' ; 'Bui, Marcus' mailto:Marcus.Bui@aiminvestments.com ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Right, that's exactly what we are working with right now. Actually some of the IBM blades can be beefy enough to serve as SQL servers within a cluster. The problem I am having is that the VLD drivers do not offer enough speed as advertised. NetApp wants some data from me that I just haven't had enough time to collect but I was also wondering if anyone else out there is using the combo of a filer/blade servers.
Before you ask, we need the VLD because SQL will not put the data on the UNC (\server\path) drive. The VLD makes a remote filer volume look like a local drive, thus fooling the SQL server on working.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:52 PM To: 'Hunter Wylie'; 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
It's worth noting that the IBM bladecenter can do fibre channel on the blade with the fibre switches embedded in the chassis. Very nice solution, actually.
Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com http://www.gridapp.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Wylie Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:48 AM To: 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Marcus, Blade servers generally can and should be purchased with 2 disks for mirrored OS, SWAP and some binaries. Given that the smallest disk you can get now exceeds your DAS requirement by 8X plus I'd say they all get local DAS. This would allow you a single set of spares, cookie cutter software installation, etc. Also, I don't think a typical Win2000 system can easily boot without a disk
I'm not aware of any blade servers having single or dual fibre channel out of the back of each blade so DAS on the filer is out of the question. The HP Proliant BL 10e has Gbit out of the back with a Gbit consolidation switch built in to cut way down on the cable mess.
With regard to your data storage - everything should go onto the filer(s) for all the obvious reasons. Even the sources for the images that will go on the local DAS. You don't want to manage N file and OS spaces on N blades. One place to back up, no blade server is different from the rest, the world scales easily.. Free time to do something interesting.
Good luck,
Hunter M. Wylie 21193 French Prairie Rd Suite 100 St. Paul, Oregon 97137-9722 Bus: 866-367-8900 FAX: 503-633-8901 Cell: 503-880-1947
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Bui, Marcus Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:11 AM To: 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: blade servers to Filer
Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers, Marcus Bui
MessageMatt, If you could add a FC I/O card in the blade then why can't you add a TOE card instead? doesn't the blade server have free PCI I/O slots?? -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Zito To: toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:01 PM Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Definitely - iSCSI is the way of the future, and in the next few years even traditional SANs will start to be supplanted by iSCSI networks. The only downside is that for high-performance iSCSI throughput you need TOE cards on both sides - the host and the storage. With blade servers there's no option for custom ethernet cards, so unless your manufacturer provides them on the blade, you're out of luck. I seem to recall IBM discussing with us that there were plans for TOE cards for the blades but the timeframes were hazy and distant.
Today, if you need high-performance block i/o for the blades, your best bet is really to pony up the extra cash for the fibre I/o adapters for the blades and the fibre switches and deploy a SAN.
Thanks, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Net Backer Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:46 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: blade servers to Filer
Have you looked at iSCSI? It is very simple to install and attach an Intel or Adaptec TOE card to the NetApp filer. We are currently evaluating 2 Win2K servers, one running SQL and the other Oracle using iSCSI. The performance is as good as if not better than the local drives. These are not huge databases though, but for small workgroup use, but need large storage, ~500GB (combination of database and image files) and we didn't want the users to buy Dell disk arrays. I would rather use iSCSI instead of VLD, because I think that's the direction even NetApp is moving to. -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Nicko Demeter To: Matthew Zito ; 'Hunter Wylie' ; 'Bui, Marcus' ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Right, that's exactly what we are working with right now. Actually some of the IBM blades can be beefy enough to serve as SQL servers within a cluster. The problem I am having is that the VLD drivers do not offer enough speed as advertised. NetApp wants some data from me that I just haven't had enough time to collect but I was also wondering if anyone else out there is using the combo of a filer/blade servers.
Before you ask, we need the VLD because SQL will not put the data on the UNC (\server\path) drive. The VLD makes a remote filer volume look like a local drive, thus fooling the SQL server on working.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:52 PM To: 'Hunter Wylie'; 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
It's worth noting that the IBM bladecenter can do fibre channel on the blade with the fibre switches embedded in the chassis. Very nice solution, actually.
Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Wylie Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:48 AM To: 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Marcus,
Blade servers generally can and should be purchased with 2 disks for mirrored OS, SWAP and some binaries. Given that the smallest disk you can get now exceeds your DAS requirement by 8X plus I'd say they all get local DAS. This would allow you a single set of spares, cookie cutter software installation, etc. Also, I don't think a typical Win2000 system can easily boot without a disk
I'm not aware of any blade servers having single or dual fibre channel out of the back of each blade so DAS on the filer is out of the question. The HP Proliant BL 10e has Gbit out of the back with a Gbit consolidation switch built in to cut way down on the cable mess.
With regard to your data storage - everything should go onto the filer(s) for all the obvious reasons. Even the sources for the images that will go on the local DAS. You don't want to manage N file and OS spaces on N blades. One place to back up, no blade server is different from the rest, the world scales easily.. Free time to do something interesting.
Good luck,
Hunter M. Wylie
21193 French Prairie Rd
Suite 100
St. Paul, Oregon 97137-9722
Bus: 866-367-8900
FAX: 503-633-8901
Cell: 503-880-1947
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Bui, Marcus Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:11 AM To: 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: blade servers to Filer
Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers,
Marcus Bui
IBM actually makes a custom FC card for the blades - its a weird form factor, the size of a large business card or post-it note, kind of like SBus, only smaller. The card is a standard Qlogic fibre card, just built for their form factor. It takes the place of the second hard drive in the blade and fits into this 1/2-inch PCI slot (very odd looking) . We use the IBM BladeCenter as the hardware basis for our product, so we stay informed about the new features and options that will be available for the bladecenter. As I said, TOE cards are a possibility for the future, but its very dependent on customer demand.
Thanks, Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com http://www.gridapp.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Net Backer Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:19 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: blade servers to Filer
Matt, If you could add a FC I/O card in the blade then why can't you add a TOE card instead? doesn't the blade server have free PCI I/O slots?? -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Zito mailto:mzito@gridapp.com To: toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:01 PM Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Definitely - iSCSI is the way of the future, and in the next few years even traditional SANs will start to be supplanted by iSCSI networks. The only downside is that for high-performance iSCSI throughput you need TOE cards on both sides - the host and the storage. With blade servers there's no option for custom ethernet cards, so unless your manufacturer provides them on the blade, you're out of luck. I seem to recall IBM discussing with us that there were plans for TOE cards for the blades but the timeframes were hazy and distant.
Today, if you need high-performance block i/o for the blades, your best bet is really to pony up the extra cash for the fibre I/o adapters for the blades and the fibre switches and deploy a SAN.
Thanks, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com http://www.gridapp.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Net Backer Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:46 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: blade servers to Filer
Have you looked at iSCSI? It is very simple to install and attach an Intel or Adaptec TOE card to the NetApp filer. We are currently evaluating 2 Win2K servers, one running SQL and the other Oracle using iSCSI. The performance is as good as if not better than the local drives. These are not huge databases though, but for small workgroup use, but need large storage, ~500GB (combination of database and image files) and we didn't want the users to buy Dell disk arrays. I would rather use iSCSI instead of VLD, because I think that's the direction even NetApp is moving to. -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Nicko Demeter mailto:nicko@rack.org To: Matthew Zito mailto:mzito@gridapp.com ; 'Hunter mailto:hwylie@stpaultel.com Wylie' ; 'Bui, Marcus' mailto:Marcus.Bui@aiminvestments.com ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Right, that's exactly what we are working with right now. Actually some of the IBM blades can be beefy enough to serve as SQL servers within a cluster. The problem I am having is that the VLD drivers do not offer enough speed as advertised. NetApp wants some data from me that I just haven't had enough time to collect but I was also wondering if anyone else out there is using the combo of a filer/blade servers.
Before you ask, we need the VLD because SQL will not put the data on the UNC (\server\path) drive. The VLD makes a remote filer volume look like a local drive, thus fooling the SQL server on working.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:52 PM To: 'Hunter Wylie'; 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
It's worth noting that the IBM bladecenter can do fibre channel on the blade with the fibre switches embedded in the chassis. Very nice solution, actually.
Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com http://www.gridapp.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Wylie Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:48 AM To: 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Marcus, Blade servers generally can and should be purchased with 2 disks for mirrored OS, SWAP and some binaries. Given that the smallest disk you can get now exceeds your DAS requirement by 8X plus I'd say they all get local DAS. This would allow you a single set of spares, cookie cutter software installation, etc. Also, I don't think a typical Win2000 system can easily boot without a disk
I'm not aware of any blade servers having single or dual fibre channel out of the back of each blade so DAS on the filer is out of the question. The HP Proliant BL 10e has Gbit out of the back with a Gbit consolidation switch built in to cut way down on the cable mess.
With regard to your data storage - everything should go onto the filer(s) for all the obvious reasons. Even the sources for the images that will go on the local DAS. You don't want to manage N file and OS spaces on N blades. One place to back up, no blade server is different from the rest, the world scales easily.. Free time to do something interesting.
Good luck,
Hunter M. Wylie 21193 French Prairie Rd Suite 100 St. Paul, Oregon 97137-9722 Bus: 866-367-8900 FAX: 503-633-8901 Cell: 503-880-1947
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Bui, Marcus Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:11 AM To: 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: blade servers to Filer
Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers, Marcus Bui
MessageWell I just came back from an activation with the USAF and I'm still catching up to things. I am getting a bunch of emails from you kinds folks about iSCSI and I am determined to give it a try ASAP. Thank you to everyone for your help!
ANOTHER TOPIC: We are one of the unlucky souls caught in the Sprint going out of the collocation business and we have to start looking for a new home. Currently we are occupying a rather large cage with four cabinets, one of them being our filer with the disk shelves. Is anyone else caught in this mess and what would you do? Would you invest in SnapMirror and another filer head to mirror the data between the old location and wherever we end up going?
Also if you know of any good colo facilities in the Sacramento / Bay Area please let me know. Most good ones went bye-bye with the dot bomb. And Quest apparently has built on top of an Indian burial ground (no joke) so the tribal curse is apparently enough to deter our management from looking there.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Net Backer Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:46 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: blade servers to Filer
Have you looked at iSCSI? It is very simple to install and attach an Intel or Adaptec TOE card to the NetApp filer. We are currently evaluating 2 Win2K servers, one running SQL and the other Oracle using iSCSI. The performance is as good as if not better than the local drives. These are not huge databases though, but for small workgroup use, but need large storage, ~500GB (combination of database and image files) and we didn't want the users to buy Dell disk arrays. I would rather use iSCSI instead of VLD, because I think that's the direction even NetApp is moving to. -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Nicko Demeter To: Matthew Zito ; 'Hunter Wylie' ; 'Bui, Marcus' ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Right, that's exactly what we are working with right now. Actually some of the IBM blades can be beefy enough to serve as SQL servers within a cluster. The problem I am having is that the VLD drivers do not offer enough speed as advertised. NetApp wants some data from me that I just haven't had enough time to collect but I was also wondering if anyone else out there is using the combo of a filer/blade servers.
Before you ask, we need the VLD because SQL will not put the data on the UNC (\server\path) drive. The VLD makes a remote filer volume look like a local drive, thus fooling the SQL server on working.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:52 PM To: 'Hunter Wylie'; 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
It's worth noting that the IBM bladecenter can do fibre channel on the blade with the fibre switches embedded in the chassis. Very nice solution, actually.
Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Wylie Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:48 AM To: 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Marcus,
Blade servers generally can and should be purchased with 2 disks for mirrored OS, SWAP and some binaries. Given that the smallest disk you can get now exceeds your DAS requirement by 8X plus Id say they all get local DAS. This would allow you a single set of spares, cookie cutter software installation, etc Also, I dont think a typical Win2000 system can easily boot without a disk
Im not aware of any blade servers having single or dual fibre channel out of the back of each blade so DAS on the filer is out of the question. The HP Proliant BL 10e has Gbit out of the back with a Gbit consolidation switch built in to cut way down on the cable mess.
With regard to your data storage everything should go onto the filer(s) for all the obvious reasons. Even the sources for the images that will go on the local DAS. You dont want to manage N file and OS spaces on N blades. One place to back up, no blade server is different from the rest, the world scales easily . Free time to do something interesting.
Good luck,
Hunter M. Wylie
21193 French Prairie Rd
Suite 100
St. Paul, Oregon 97137-9722
Bus: 866-367-8900
FAX: 503-633-8901
Cell: 503-880-1947
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Bui, Marcus Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:11 AM To: 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: blade servers to Filer
Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers,
Marcus Bui
If you're not going to be doing remote replication long-term but just need it for the migration, talk to your netapp rep about "migration services". I don't know if netapp offers it specifically, but when I worked for EMC (*ducks*), we did a lot of migrations where we installed a new Symmetrix at the destination facility, set up remote replication from old->new, the customer moved the servers, replication was turned off, and the new Symm was what was left with the customer, while the old Symm was taken away. This would probably be cheaper than paying for snapmirror if you don't have any use for it beyond the migration.
Thanks, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com http://www.gridapp.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Nicko Demeter Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:24 PM To: Net Backer; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Well I just came back from an activation with the USAF and I'm still catching up to things. I am getting a bunch of emails from you kinds folks about iSCSI and I am determined to give it a try ASAP. Thank you to everyone for your help!
ANOTHER TOPIC: We are one of the unlucky souls caught in the Sprint going out of the collocation business and we have to start looking for a new home. Currently we are occupying a rather large cage with four cabinets, one of them being our filer with the disk shelves. Is anyone else caught in this mess and what would you do? Would you invest in SnapMirror and another filer head to mirror the data between the old location and wherever we end up going?
Also if you know of any good colo facilities in the Sacramento / Bay Area please let me know. Most good ones went bye-bye with the dot bomb. And Quest apparently has built on top of an Indian burial ground (no joke) so the tribal curse is apparently enough to deter our management from looking there.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Net Backer Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:46 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: blade servers to Filer
Have you looked at iSCSI? It is very simple to install and attach an Intel or Adaptec TOE card to the NetApp filer. We are currently evaluating 2 Win2K servers, one running SQL and the other Oracle using iSCSI. The performance is as good as if not better than the local drives. These are not huge databases though, but for small workgroup use, but need large storage, ~500GB (combination of database and image files) and we didn't want the users to buy Dell disk arrays. I would rather use iSCSI instead of VLD, because I think that's the direction even NetApp is moving to. -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Nicko Demeter mailto:nicko@rack.org To: Matthew Zito mailto:mzito@gridapp.com ; 'Hunter mailto:hwylie@stpaultel.com Wylie' ; 'Bui, Marcus' mailto:Marcus.Bui@aiminvestments.com ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Right, that's exactly what we are working with right now. Actually some of the IBM blades can be beefy enough to serve as SQL servers within a cluster. The problem I am having is that the VLD drivers do not offer enough speed as advertised. NetApp wants some data from me that I just haven't had enough time to collect but I was also wondering if anyone else out there is using the combo of a filer/blade servers.
Before you ask, we need the VLD because SQL will not put the data on the UNC (\server\path) drive. The VLD makes a remote filer volume look like a local drive, thus fooling the SQL server on working.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:52 PM To: 'Hunter Wylie'; 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
It's worth noting that the IBM bladecenter can do fibre channel on the blade with the fibre switches embedded in the chassis. Very nice solution, actually.
Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com http://www.gridapp.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Wylie Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:48 AM To: 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Marcus, Blade servers generally can and should be purchased with 2 disks for mirrored OS, SWAP and some binaries. Given that the smallest disk you can get now exceeds your DAS requirement by 8X plus I'd say they all get local DAS. This would allow you a single set of spares, cookie cutter software installation, etc. Also, I don't think a typical Win2000 system can easily boot without a disk
I'm not aware of any blade servers having single or dual fibre channel out of the back of each blade so DAS on the filer is out of the question. The HP Proliant BL 10e has Gbit out of the back with a Gbit consolidation switch built in to cut way down on the cable mess.
With regard to your data storage - everything should go onto the filer(s) for all the obvious reasons. Even the sources for the images that will go on the local DAS. You don't want to manage N file and OS spaces on N blades. One place to back up, no blade server is different from the rest, the world scales easily.. Free time to do something interesting.
Good luck,
Hunter M. Wylie 21193 French Prairie Rd Suite 100 St. Paul, Oregon 97137-9722 Bus: 866-367-8900 FAX: 503-633-8901 Cell: 503-880-1947
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Bui, Marcus Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:11 AM To: 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: blade servers to Filer
Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers, Marcus Bui
MessageHave you looked at Level3? When Intel went out of the co-lo business, we looked around for alternatives and found Level3 as a strong viable colo. They have a huge (but almost empty last year) colo in Emeryville (very close to our office). They also have one in SAC. But we didn't have to move out of Intel's facility in Santa Clara, as Savvis http://www.savvis.com/ took over and continued to provide us the service.
-G ----- Original Message ----- From: Nicko Demeter To: Net Backer ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:23 PM Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Well I just came back from an activation with the USAF and I'm still catching up to things. I am getting a bunch of emails from you kinds folks about iSCSI and I am determined to give it a try ASAP. Thank you to everyone for your help!
ANOTHER TOPIC: We are one of the unlucky souls caught in the Sprint going out of the collocation business and we have to start looking for a new home. Currently we are occupying a rather large cage with four cabinets, one of them being our filer with the disk shelves. Is anyone else caught in this mess and what would you do? Would you invest in SnapMirror and another filer head to mirror the data between the old location and wherever we end up going?
Also if you know of any good colo facilities in the Sacramento / Bay Area please let me know. Most good ones went bye-bye with the dot bomb. And Quest apparently has built on top of an Indian burial ground (no joke) so the tribal curse is apparently enough to deter our management from looking there.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Net Backer Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:46 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: blade servers to Filer
Have you looked at iSCSI? It is very simple to install and attach an Intel or Adaptec TOE card to the NetApp filer. We are currently evaluating 2 Win2K servers, one running SQL and the other Oracle using iSCSI. The performance is as good as if not better than the local drives. These are not huge databases though, but for small workgroup use, but need large storage, ~500GB (combination of database and image files) and we didn't want the users to buy Dell disk arrays. I would rather use iSCSI instead of VLD, because I think that's the direction even NetApp is moving to. -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Nicko Demeter To: Matthew Zito ; 'Hunter Wylie' ; 'Bui, Marcus' ; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Right, that's exactly what we are working with right now. Actually some of the IBM blades can be beefy enough to serve as SQL servers within a cluster. The problem I am having is that the VLD drivers do not offer enough speed as advertised. NetApp wants some data from me that I just haven't had enough time to collect but I was also wondering if anyone else out there is using the combo of a filer/blade servers.
Before you ask, we need the VLD because SQL will not put the data on the UNC (\server\path) drive. The VLD makes a remote filer volume look like a local drive, thus fooling the SQL server on working.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Nicko -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:52 PM To: 'Hunter Wylie'; 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
It's worth noting that the IBM bladecenter can do fibre channel on the blade with the fibre switches embedded in the chassis. Very nice solution, actually.
Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito@gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Wylie Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:48 AM To: 'Bui, Marcus'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: blade servers to Filer
Marcus,
Blade servers generally can and should be purchased with 2 disks for mirrored OS, SWAP and some binaries. Given that the smallest disk you can get now exceeds your DAS requirement by 8X plus I'd say they all get local DAS. This would allow you a single set of spares, cookie cutter software installation, etc. Also, I don't think a typical Win2000 system can easily boot without a disk
I'm not aware of any blade servers having single or dual fibre channel out of the back of each blade so DAS on the filer is out of the question. The HP Proliant BL 10e has Gbit out of the back with a Gbit consolidation switch built in to cut way down on the cable mess.
With regard to your data storage - everything should go onto the filer(s) for all the obvious reasons. Even the sources for the images that will go on the local DAS. You don't want to manage N file and OS spaces on N blades. One place to back up, no blade server is different from the rest, the world scales easily.. Free time to do something interesting.
Good luck,
Hunter M. Wylie
21193 French Prairie Rd
Suite 100
St. Paul, Oregon 97137-9722
Bus: 866-367-8900
FAX: 503-633-8901
Cell: 503-880-1947
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Bui, Marcus Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:11 AM To: 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: blade servers to Filer
Hi Toasters,
We are migrating many of the current servers to HP blade servers. The Server Team is considering connecting to the Filers/SAN on the back end for storage. I know this is not a problem. Some of the applications servers only need 4GB of space so leaving it on the DAS will be better. Want to best utilize the Filers since not every blade server is a good candidate for NAS if DAS will suffice. What are some criteria to use when considering connecting blade servers to the Filers? Any suggestion is appreciated.
cheers,
Marcus Bui
-
Bui, Marcus -
Hunter Wylie -
Matthew Zito -
Net Backer -
Nicko Demeter