DISCLAIMER: Non-engineer speaking -- alarm bells should be ringing...
It was my understanding that CIFS will preserve standard Unix Read/Write/Execute file permissions. However, does the filer even support Solaris ACLs? Not sure which other flavors of Unix have similar features (at least AIX does, and I would suspect essentially all do; different implementations, though). Previously ONTAP did not support Unix ACLs, because of their diverse implementations. However, I thought newer versions of NFS were supposed to address this. What's the current status of ONTAP support for Unix ACLs? If Unix ACLs are supported, then are they preserved, too?
TIA. Joe
Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc.
Email: joe.luchtenberg@data-line.com Phone: 757-457-0504 (direct line) 757-858-0600 (front desk) 757-285-1223 (mobile) Fax: 757-858-0606
Please visit us at www.data-line.com
-----Original Message----- From: Breniser, Larry [mailto:larry_breniser@mentorg.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:45 PM To: 'Coder, James (STP)'; 'Stephen Manley'; 'Surlow, Jim' Cc: 'Alfred Lim'; 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: RE: One more netbackup question...
One more time?
I have been told that backing up over CIFS will preserve UNIX permissions (see: http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3052.html)
I stand corrected!
LB
-----Original Message----- From: Breniser, Larry Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 8:18 AM To: 'Coder, James (STP)'; 'Stephen Manley'; 'Surlow, Jim' Cc: 'Alfred Lim'; 'toasters@mathworks.com' Subject: RE: One more netbackup question...
I heard that I may have phrased this badly, and now that I read it I agree. Let me try again.
If you CIFS at your site, then the NT permissions may be important to you. If you back up over NFS, you will not capture the NT permissions on tape. Of course, if you back up over CIFS, the UNIX permissions are not captured.
LB
-----Original Message----- From: Breniser, Larry Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 2:48 PM To: 'Coder, James (STP)'; 'Stephen Manley'; Surlow, Jim Cc: 'Alfred Lim'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: One more netbackup question...
The disadvantage (if you use CIFS) is tht the Windows security information is not backed up.
LB
-----Original Message----- From: Coder, James (STP) [mailto:James.Coder@guidant.com] Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 2:48 PM To: 'Stephen Manley'; Surlow, Jim Cc: 'Alfred Lim'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: One more netbackup question...
Another solution while waiting for netbackup and dar to come about- if you are using the filer in an nfs environment, you can nfs mount the directories / volumes. We've been doing this for the past 2 years and have good performance - we also run the backups over a separate backup lan running gig. The advantage is you don't have to dedicate the drives to the filer(s), you can break up the volumes to little more manageable sizes (use bpstart / bpend scripts - downside is you don't have the speed you get from ndmp. did some testing when we put our 760 into place 2 years ago and made the decision then to use nfs.
also don't know if DAR will allow you to not dedicate drives to the filer(s).
cheers - jc
James C. Coder Sr. UNIX Administrator Guidant Corporation 4100 Hamline Avenue North St. Paul, MN 55112 Tel: 651-582-4797 Fax 651-582-4285 email: james.coder@guidant.com
-----Original Message----- From: Stephen Manley [mailto:stephen@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 5:49 AM To: Surlow, Jim Cc: 'Alfred Lim'; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: One more netbackup question...
Most of what you say is correct, but Ontap 6.0 and greater supports DAR, due to NDMP allowing for cooperation between NDMP client and NDMP server.
When you run the backup, the filer sends "file history" information to the NDMP client. This information allows the NDMP client (Legato, Veritas, WorkStation Solutions, ArcServe, etc) to create the index of files in the backup _and_ their location in the backup stream (byte offset).
Meanwhile, the NDMP clients also track the amount of data written to each tape. So, when you do a DAR, the NDMP client tells the NDMP server (e.g. the filer) the list of files it wants restored and the offsets of those files. The filer and the NDMP client cooperate to load and position the tape to those offsets.
At each offset, the filer will extract the data and restore the requested file.
Which means: A) If you run an NDMP backup without file history (i.e. indexing) you can't run a direct access restore. B) To run a DAR, you need the functionality from the client and server. C) DAR is _possible_ using NDMP V2, V3, and V4 (all these versions support file history and the other commands necessary for DAR) D) Data Ontap 6.0 and greater supports DAR.
Hopefully this helps, Stephen Manley Member of the NDMP version of the Osmond family
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Surlow, Jim wrote:
Even though Networker might support DAR, does OnTap?
I did some research on this a while back (so my info may be
dated), but my
understanding is this:
The backup server initiates the NDMP command to the Filer
(or other NDMP
device), the OS on that device then begins to send data to
tape by using
means that it is aware of. In the case of OnTap, it uses
the typical Unix
dump command.
With dump/restore, there is no index created, thus, to
recover, one has to
scan from the beginning of tape of the first tape in the
dump set until the
data is found (on whatever tape). And the user waiting for
the file will
likely hope that their file is closer to the first part of
the first tape
rather than the last part of the last tape.
Netbackup & Networker will have an index knowing which NDMP
tape set that a
file is on, but I would guess that they would have no idea
as to which tape
in the set it is - or where on that tape (set: being number
of tapes for
that night's incremental, full, whatever).
If I'm off base, please clarify.
Thanks,
Jim Surlow CSG Systems
-----Original Message----- From: Alfred Lim [mailto:alfred@ptc.net] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:23 AM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: One more netbackup question...
Well one thing for Legato Networker, it support NDMP V3 and have this DAR feature.
-----Original Message----- From: "Jeff Kennedy" jlkennedy@amcc.com To: Don.Hickey@alcatel.com Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:56:46 -0800 Subject: Re: One more netbackup question...
Get a new backup software? The problem is that some
vendors do not
support Direct Access Restore, meaning it will search
through every tape
starting at the first and scan the whole thing. If no DAR, you're basically bummed.
Do you use snapshots? If you have the space it is a life-saver at times.
~JK
Don.Hickey@alcatel.com wrote:
I find restoring from a tape extraordinarly slowwwww.
I have home
directories on a clustered pair of F840 running 6.1.1r2. I have several volumes at about 300gb usable. When I need to
restore a file
from a users directory it can take up to 6+ hours (DLT
8000). It
appears most of the time is taken searching for the
files... is there
anything you can suggest (including any white papers)
to speed up this
process?
thanks again
Don
--
Jeff Kennedy Unix Administrator AMCC jlkennedy@amcc.com
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Joe Luchtenberg wrote:
Previously ONTAP did not support Unix ACLs, because of their diverse implementations. However, I thought newer versions of NFS were supposed to address this. What's the current status of ONTAP support for Unix ACLs? If Unix ACLs are supported, then are they preserved, too?
(speaking only for Solaris) ACL's are processed over nfs via nfs_acl (RPC service 100227). Looking at a 6.2 filer now, I don't see that its even registered, so it would be a safe guess that its still not supported at all.
ObCIFS_NFS_InteropNightmare: I guess if it did that would require a new qtree security model, 'mixed_up'.
..kg..
-
Joe Luchtenberg -
kevin graham