This is *not* your ordinary NFS nor is this pNFS. This is a NFS stack that ORACLE uses. Oracle's Direct NFS. It is very stable abd better than a standard NFS with a host OS. In fact, I have been told that if you look at ORACLE on all the different platforms it can run on, 95% of the NFS stack is the same, the only deviation is that of the host platform that dictates a few changes (like Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc)

It does a lot behind the scenes to utilize all connections. Again, this is not your standard NFS at play here. It is a more-or-less customized version that Oracle uses under the sheets so to speak.

Try setting it up in a dev environment. Here is a useful link about it: http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/install.112/e22489/storage.htm#CWLIN281 http://www.orafaq.com/wiki/Direct_NFS

If using NFS now, you would Shut down Oracle create /etc/oranfstab (or $ORACLE_HOME/dbs/oranfstab) Tell Oracle to use a new library for storage Start Oracle.

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy* *Principal Consultant*

Clustered ONTAP Clustered ONTAP NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4 Expires: 08 November 2014 Current until Aug 02, 2016 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Jeff Cleverley < jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

Tim,

It has been our experience that even if there are multiple network connections on the server, when it makes an NFS connection to the NetApp, it will only use one of those connections. We are not using NFS4/PNFS. Is Oracle NFS basically PNFS?

We had a process (non-Oracle) on a system a few years ago. We tried giving it an nfs mounted file system. The transactions drove the filers in the dirt. We switched the to FC luns and set up a "local" file system on the server. It is much easier on the filers and faster than the nfs file system. We're concerned that using NFS of any type may cause this issue again.

Unfortunately we probably won't find out if it is too abusive until they run full steam. At that point stopping them and changing the process probably won't be very popular :-)

How do you do your backups/DR for your nfs file systems?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:11 PM, tmac tmacmd@gmail.com wrote:

...

Personally, I would strongly encourage you to not use iSCSI.

Instead, look at using Oracle's NFS implementation. It is fairly easy to setup. Give it a bunch of network adapters on the host (like two or three) and point at the NetApp.

The client will use all the connections Oracle knows about and performance can really scream, especially if you can use 10GigE

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy* *Principal Consultant*

    Clustered ONTAP
   Clustered ONTAP

NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4 Expires: 08 November 2014 Current until Aug 02, 2016 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Cleverley <jeff.cleverley@avagotech .com> wrote:

...

Greetings,

My Oracle experience with and without NetApp has largely been non-existent. Please bear with me on this. All of our current DBs are on dedicated servers with locally attached storage.

One of our groups has a 6280 cluster running 8.1.2P4 7-mode. They want to look into using iscsi to a new 11.2 Oracle server. The cluster can get pretty busy at times so I'm not sure Oracle NFS will work in this case.

The questions are largely about backups and DR. I'm curious about how most people choose to back this up and how to recover for that solution. I know there are lun copy options, snapmanager/flex clone options, etc. We're very open to manual scripting and custom solutions. Backups would most likely go to a NearStore, and the DR would be a second server connected via iscsi also.

Thanks,

Jeff

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

---

Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

I would have to be doing DR to worry about DR ;)

SImple Mirroring. Hot backup. Take a snapshot. Exit Hot backup. Push mirror. Same as you would with FC or another topology...no?

You can always snaprestore back to a point in time, depending on how many snapshots you have.

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy* *Principal Consultant*

Clustered ONTAP Clustered ONTAP NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4 Expires: 08 November 2014 Current until Aug 02, 2016 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Jeff Cleverley < jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

Tim,

I'll take a look at the link and speak with the group. I'll see if we can get some type of testing set up.

If you are running your database on nfs, how are you doing the DR? I can obviously quiesce the database and do a snapshot, but if it the main fs corrupts, how are you recovering using the snapshot? Are you using a flex clone, etc?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 3:22 PM, tmac tmacmd@gmail.com wrote:

...

This is *not* your ordinary NFS nor is this pNFS. This is a NFS stack that ORACLE uses. Oracle's Direct NFS. It is very stable abd better than a standard NFS with a host OS. In fact, I have been told that if you look at ORACLE on all the different platforms it can run on, 95% of the NFS stack is the same, the only deviation is that of the host platform that dictates a few changes (like Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc)

It does a lot behind the scenes to utilize all connections. Again, this is not your standard NFS at play here. It is a more-or-less customized version that Oracle uses under the sheets so to speak.

Try setting it up in a dev environment. Here is a useful link about it:

http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/install.112/e22489/storage.htm#CWLIN281 http://www.orafaq.com/wiki/Direct_NFS

If using NFS now, you would Shut down Oracle create /etc/oranfstab (or $ORACLE_HOME/dbs/oranfstab) Tell Oracle to use a new library for storage Start Oracle.

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy* *Principal Consultant*

    Clustered ONTAP
   Clustered ONTAP

NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4 Expires: 08 November 2014 Current until Aug 02, 2016 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Jeff Cleverley < jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

...

Tim,

It has been our experience that even if there are multiple network connections on the server, when it makes an NFS connection to the NetApp, it will only use one of those connections. We are not using NFS4/PNFS. Is Oracle NFS basically PNFS?

We had a process (non-Oracle) on a system a few years ago. We tried giving it an nfs mounted file system. The transactions drove the filers in the dirt. We switched the to FC luns and set up a "local" file system on the server. It is much easier on the filers and faster than the nfs file system. We're concerned that using NFS of any type may cause this issue again.

Unfortunately we probably won't find out if it is too abusive until they run full steam. At that point stopping them and changing the process probably won't be very popular :-)

How do you do your backups/DR for your nfs file systems?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:11 PM, tmac tmacmd@gmail.com wrote:

...

Personally, I would strongly encourage you to not use iSCSI.

Instead, look at using Oracle's NFS implementation. It is fairly easy to setup. Give it a bunch of network adapters on the host (like two or three) and point at the NetApp.

The client will use all the connections Oracle knows about and performance can really scream, especially if you can use 10GigE

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy* *Principal Consultant*

    Clustered ONTAP
     Clustered ONTAP

NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4 Expires: 08 November 2014 Current until Aug 02, 2016 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Cleverley <jeff.cleverley@ avagotech.com> wrote:

...

Greetings,

My Oracle experience with and without NetApp has largely been non-existent. Please bear with me on this. All of our current DBs are on dedicated servers with locally attached storage.

One of our groups has a 6280 cluster running 8.1.2P4 7-mode. They want to look into using iscsi to a new 11.2 Oracle server. The cluster can get pretty busy at times so I'm not sure Oracle NFS will work in this case.

The questions are largely about backups and DR. I'm curious about how most people choose to back this up and how to recover for that solution. I know there are lun copy options, snapmanager/flex clone options, etc. We're very open to manual scripting and custom solutions. Backups would most likely go to a NearStore, and the DR would be a second server connected via iscsi also.

Thanks,

Jeff

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

---

Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

LACP is certainly not needed on the client, nor should it be used. ORACLE's DNFS will distribute across all paths it has been told about.

On the NetApp side, you could use LACP. Like it was mentioned earlier, you will be limited to a path. Now, as a for instance, if you have a four node cDOT, you could do this:

Host -> LIF on node 1 Host -> LIF on node 2 Host -> LIF on node 3 Host -> LIF on node 4 (go direct to the LIF, avoid dns /round-robin, etc)

THen your ORACLE could utilize all four heads.

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy* *Principal Consultant*

Clustered ONTAP Clustered ONTAP NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4 Expires: 08 November 2014 Current until Aug 02, 2016 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Adam Levin levins0@gmail.com wrote:

Jeff,

Regarding multiple network connections, you're correct. I'm not sure how Oracle's NFS handles it, but if you're using LACP to aggregate ports on a single Oracle host to a single filer, it's the switch that must choose where the traffic goes, and the algorithm that the switch uses is going to hash the MAC, IP, or some combo of them. Since it's a simple hashing algorithm, you will be limited to one port's worth of speed. While the filer will send data down all paths, and the host will also, at the switch a single destination path needs to be chosen. It's just how LACP works. Fan-in works great, so if you have lots of hosts connecting to shares on a 4 port multi-mode VIF on the filer, the load will be pretty well balanced, but a single host will always take the same path to a single port on the filer.

We got around that back when I did Oracle on a Solaris system to a NetApp. We simply worked with our DBAs to separate the data and indexes onto multiple shares, and spread those shares over four mountpoints (because we had four ports on the Sun system and four ports on the filer dedicated to the Oracle database).

So, we ended up with half the data files in one directory, half in another, and split the indexes similarly. Control files and redo logs were spread accordingly. So, instead of using port aggregation, we had four independent ports (actually, they were single-mode VIFs in pairs for failover, but nothing multi-mode or aggregated).

This may not be necessary with Oracle's NFS magic, but I'm thinking it would still be required because the decision for where to send the traffic is still happening on the switch.

-Adam

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:36 PM, tmac tmacmd@gmail.com wrote:

...

I would have to be doing DR to worry about DR ;)

SImple Mirroring. Hot backup. Take a snapshot. Exit Hot backup. Push mirror. Same as you would with FC or another topology...no?

You can always snaprestore back to a point in time, depending on how many snapshots you have.

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy* *Principal Consultant*

    Clustered ONTAP
   Clustered ONTAP

NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4 Expires: 08 November 2014 Current until Aug 02, 2016 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Jeff Cleverley < jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

...

Tim,

I'll take a look at the link and speak with the group. I'll see if we can get some type of testing set up.

If you are running your database on nfs, how are you doing the DR? I can obviously quiesce the database and do a snapshot, but if it the main fs corrupts, how are you recovering using the snapshot? Are you using a flex clone, etc?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 3:22 PM, tmac tmacmd@gmail.com wrote:

...

This is *not* your ordinary NFS nor is this pNFS. This is a NFS stack that ORACLE uses. Oracle's Direct NFS. It is very stable abd better than a standard NFS with a host OS. In fact, I have been told that if you look at ORACLE on all the different platforms it can run on, 95% of the NFS stack is the same, the only deviation is that of the host platform that dictates a few changes (like Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc)

It does a lot behind the scenes to utilize all connections. Again, this is not your standard NFS at play here. It is a more-or-less customized version that Oracle uses under the sheets so to speak.

Try setting it up in a dev environment. Here is a useful link about it:

http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/install.112/e22489/storage.htm#CWLIN281 http://www.orafaq.com/wiki/Direct_NFS

If using NFS now, you would Shut down Oracle create /etc/oranfstab (or $ORACLE_HOME/dbs/oranfstab) Tell Oracle to use a new library for storage Start Oracle.

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy* *Principal Consultant*

    Clustered ONTAP
     Clustered ONTAP

NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4 Expires: 08 November 2014 Current until Aug 02, 2016 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Jeff Cleverley < jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

...

Tim,

It has been our experience that even if there are multiple network connections on the server, when it makes an NFS connection to the NetApp, it will only use one of those connections. We are not using NFS4/PNFS. Is Oracle NFS basically PNFS?

We had a process (non-Oracle) on a system a few years ago. We tried giving it an nfs mounted file system. The transactions drove the filers in the dirt. We switched the to FC luns and set up a "local" file system on the server. It is much easier on the filers and faster than the nfs file system. We're concerned that using NFS of any type may cause this issue again.

Unfortunately we probably won't find out if it is too abusive until they run full steam. At that point stopping them and changing the process probably won't be very popular :-)

How do you do your backups/DR for your nfs file systems?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:11 PM, tmac tmacmd@gmail.com wrote:

...

Personally, I would strongly encourage you to not use iSCSI.

Instead, look at using Oracle's NFS implementation. It is fairly easy to setup. Give it a bunch of network adapters on the host (like two or three) and point at the NetApp.

The client will use all the connections Oracle knows about and performance can really scream, especially if you can use 10GigE

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy* *Principal Consultant*

    Clustered ONTAP
       Clustered ONTAP

NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4 Expires: 08 November 2014 Current until Aug 02, 2016 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Cleverley <jeff.cleverley@ avagotech.com> wrote:

> Greetings, > > My Oracle experience with and without NetApp has largely been > non-existent. Please bear with me on this. All of our current DBs are on > dedicated servers with locally attached storage. > > One of our groups has a 6280 cluster running 8.1.2P4 7-mode. They > want to look into using iscsi to a new 11.2 Oracle server. The cluster can > get pretty busy at times so I'm not sure Oracle NFS will work in this case. > > The questions are largely about backups and DR. I'm curious about > how most people choose to back this up and how to recover for that > solution. I know there are lun copy options, snapmanager/flex clone > options, etc. We're very open to manual scripting and custom solutions. > Backups would most likely go to a NearStore, and the DR would be a second > server connected via iscsi also. > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > -- > Jeff Cleverley > Unix Systems Administrator > 4380 Ziegler Road > Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 > 970-288-4611 > > _______________________________________________ > Toasters mailing list > Toasters@teaparty.net > http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters > >

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

---

Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

I just spoke with one of the team that supports the DBAs. Apparently the DBAs were adamant about not using NFS of any sort. I'm guessing we'll have to set up a test system at some point and see if we can make them do some testing. Right now there isn't enough time to test it out and try to change 20 years of tradition :-)

With that said, we will end up using luns and sharing them to the server. I see 2 potential ways to back this up once the db is quiesced and a snapshot taken.

1. Use snap restore to restore the volume to when the DB was quiesced. My assumption is this will destroy the corrupted/questionable lun instances so they won't be able to go back and look at it.

2. Use flex clone, create a new volume from the good snapshot, then share the luns from the good snapshot to the client. That method would generate new data to the source volume but would allow the mounting of the old luns if desired. Would this require us to always have that flex clone in place, or would their be a way without snap restore to put it back in the original volume? I don't want to have badvol1 with only a snapshot that is fronting goodflexvol1.

If there are other ways to backup the luns or corrections to my understanding of how things work, please let me know.

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Alexander Griesser ag@anexia.at wrote:

Well, that’s not entirely correct.

You can also have round robin LACP which utilizes all ports in the channel to the same extent, or you can use Etherchannel which is a whole different story.

Besides that, what pNFS or Oracle Direct NFS do is they utilize their own bonding and link aggregation technologies, so in an ideal Oracle Direct NFS setup, you would not have to use switch assisted load balancing at all.

But if this is a shared system which also does other workloads, your design may vary from this configuration depending on what else you need to support and want to achieve (wrt resilency, automatic failover, etc.).

It gets even more interesting the more complicated your network setup is, if you f.ex. want to combine use MLAGs (Extreme Networks) or VSS (Cisco), you will have to go for some kind of LACP, but if you can work around that you will end up having a configuration like you have with your VMware ESXi hosts where there is no switch assisted loadbalancing and the virtualization software takes care of loadbalancing on a higher level of the stack.

Anyways, there’s no rule of thumb as to what you should do since it depends on so many factors which can only be outline by the requirements of you and your organization.

BTW some switches do allow you to precalculate the physical link used in an LACP configuration depending on the given source and destination addresses (whether that’s a L2 or an L3 address), so you can spin up multiple aliased ip addresses on both ends and try to achieve better utilzation of your channels while designing the network setup.

Best,

*Alexander Griesser*

System-Administrator

ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH

Telefon: +43-5-0556-320

Telefax: +43-5-0556-500

E-Mail: ag@anexia.at

Web: http://www.anexia.at

Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler

Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601

*Von:* toasters-bounces@teaparty.net [mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net] *Im Auftrag von *Adam Levin *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 13. Mai 2014 23:54 *An:* tmac *Cc:* Toasters@teaparty.net *Betreff:* Re: Oracle access and backups

Jeff,

Regarding multiple network connections, you're correct. I'm not sure how Oracle's NFS handles it, but if you're using LACP to aggregate ports on a single Oracle host to a single filer, it's the switch that must choose where the traffic goes, and the algorithm that the switch uses is going to hash the MAC, IP, or some combo of them. Since it's a simple hashing algorithm, you will be limited to one port's worth of speed. While the filer will send data down all paths, and the host will also, at the switch a single destination path needs to be chosen. It's just how LACP works. Fan-in works great, so if you have lots of hosts connecting to shares on a 4 port multi-mode VIF on the filer, the load will be pretty well balanced, but a single host will always take the same path to a single port on the filer.

We got around that back when I did Oracle on a Solaris system to a NetApp. We simply worked with our DBAs to separate the data and indexes onto multiple shares, and spread those shares over four mountpoints (because we had four ports on the Sun system and four ports on the filer dedicated to the Oracle database).

So, we ended up with half the data files in one directory, half in another, and split the indexes similarly. Control files and redo logs were spread accordingly. So, instead of using port aggregation, we had four independent ports (actually, they were single-mode VIFs in pairs for failover, but nothing multi-mode or aggregated).

This may not be necessary with Oracle's NFS magic, but I'm thinking it would still be required because the decision for where to send the traffic is still happening on the switch.

-Adam

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:36 PM, tmac tmacmd@gmail.com wrote:

I would have to be doing DR to worry about DR ;)

SImple Mirroring.

Hot backup. Take a snapshot. Exit Hot backup. Push mirror.

Same as you would with FC or another topology...no?

You can always snaprestore back to a point in time, depending on how many snapshots you have.

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy*

*Principal Consultant*

[image: Das Bild wurde vom Absender entfernt.] [image: Das Bild wurde vom Absender entfernt.] [image: Das Bild wurde vom Absender entfernt.]

    Clustered ONTAP
 Clustered ONTAP

NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4

 Expires: 08 November 2014              Current until Aug 02, 2016
 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Jeff Cleverley < jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

Tim,

I'll take a look at the link and speak with the group. I'll see if we can get some type of testing set up.

If you are running your database on nfs, how are you doing the DR? I can obviously quiesce the database and do a snapshot, but if it the main fs corrupts, how are you recovering using the snapshot? Are you using a flex clone, etc?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 3:22 PM, tmac tmacmd@gmail.com wrote:

This is *not* your ordinary NFS nor is this pNFS. This is a NFS stack that ORACLE uses. Oracle's Direct NFS.

It is very stable abd better than a standard NFS with a host OS. In fact, I have been told that if you look at ORACLE

on all the different platforms it can run on, 95% of the NFS stack is the same, the only deviation is that of the host platform that dictates a few changes (like Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc)

It does a lot behind the scenes to utilize all connections. Again, this is not your standard NFS at play here. It is a more-or-less customized version that Oracle uses under the sheets so to speak.

Try setting it up in a dev environment.

Here is a useful link about it:

http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/install.112/e22489/storage.htm#CWLIN281

http://www.orafaq.com/wiki/Direct_NFS

If using NFS now, you would

Shut down Oracle

create /etc/oranfstab (or $ORACLE_HOME/dbs/oranfstab)

Tell Oracle to use a new library for storage

Start Oracle.

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy*

*Principal Consultant*

[image: Das Bild wurde vom Absender entfernt.] [image: Das Bild wurde vom Absender entfernt.] [image: Das Bild wurde vom Absender entfernt.]

    Clustered ONTAP
 Clustered ONTAP

NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4

 Expires: 08 November 2014              Current until Aug 02, 2016
 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Jeff Cleverley < jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

Tim,

It has been our experience that even if there are multiple network connections on the server, when it makes an NFS connection to the NetApp, it will only use one of those connections. We are not using NFS4/PNFS. Is Oracle NFS basically PNFS?

We had a process (non-Oracle) on a system a few years ago. We tried giving it an nfs mounted file system. The transactions drove the filers in the dirt. We switched the to FC luns and set up a "local" file system on the server. It is much easier on the filers and faster than the nfs file system. We're concerned that using NFS of any type may cause this issue again.

Unfortunately we probably won't find out if it is too abusive until they run full steam. At that point stopping them and changing the process probably won't be very popular :-)

How do you do your backups/DR for your nfs file systems?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:11 PM, tmac tmacmd@gmail.com wrote:

Personally, I would strongly encourage you to not use iSCSI.

Instead, look at using Oracle's NFS implementation.

It is fairly easy to setup. Give it a bunch of network adapters on the host

(like two or three) and point at the NetApp.

The client will use all the connections Oracle knows about and performance can really scream, especially if you can use 10GigE

--tmac

*Tim McCarthy*

*Principal Consultant*

[image: Das Bild wurde vom Absender entfernt.] [image: Das Bild wurde vom Absender entfernt.] [image: Das Bild wurde vom Absender entfernt.]

    Clustered ONTAP
 Clustered ONTAP

NCDA ID: XK7R3GEKC1QQ2LVD RHCE6 110-107-141https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-107-141&isSearch=False&verify=Verify NCSIE ID: C14QPHE21FR4YWD4

 Expires: 08 November 2014              Current until Aug 02, 2016
 Expires: 08 November 2014

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Cleverley < jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

Greetings,

My Oracle experience with and without NetApp has largely been non-existent. Please bear with me on this. All of our current DBs are on dedicated servers with locally attached storage.

One of our groups has a 6280 cluster running 8.1.2P4 7-mode. They want to look into using iscsi to a new 11.2 Oracle server. The cluster can get pretty busy at times so I'm not sure Oracle NFS will work in this case.

The questions are largely about backups and DR. I'm curious about how most people choose to back this up and how to recover for that solution. I know there are lun copy options, snapmanager/flex clone options, etc. We're very open to manual scripting and custom solutions. Backups would most likely go to a NearStore, and the DR would be a second server connected via iscsi also.

Thanks,

Jeff

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

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-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

---

Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

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Jack,

It is a similar thing here. They are old school and not that inclined to change :-) We may be able to get them there, but not in the time frame we have available to figure out how to set things up.

They are only focused on lun/local file system and we need to figure out the best way to backup and restore that.

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Jack Lyons jack1729@gmail.com wrote:

Work with your netapp team to get a reference account for using oracle on nfs - I think oracle internal IT is doing it.

We had same issue with our sr. Oracle dba...the meeting opened his mind, but with 18 months until retirement - he still didn't to undertake that project

Jack Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Cleverley jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com Sender: toasters-bounces@teaparty.net Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 17:01:57 To: Alexander Griesserag@anexia.at Cc: Toasters@teaparty.netToasters@teaparty.net Subject: Re: Oracle access and backups

---

Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

I’ve read each single row ☺. Very interesting discussion.

Where’s the problem? FCP and a lot of SSD! That’s all folk as stated in Looney Toons! ☺

Jokes aside my two cents come bringing one of the biggest success story of a customer of our (a big petroleum company here) They’re “playing” with Oracle on NFS since the FAS270 time! And overall winning a battle against Oracle representative too and “old fashioned dbadmin”…

FAS and Ontap 7 mode (now 8.1)

Their infrastructure is all virtualized on VMware platform (NFS for the datastore too), using now a core network at 10 GbE with LACP (but they started coupling single 1 Gbps links with the ip aliasing technique on filers to allow several mp on different links) and all the db server run on Linux RH as VM with vdisk for binaries and exports from NetApp for their RAC or standalone functions: always on NFS exports. Their SAP frame runs on Oracle too, same architecture. They use DirectNFS sometimes but the most of link are on NFS.

For which concern backup and dr everything is managed by Workflow and OnCommand Core (aka DFM) and its Console (all scripts integrated with RMAN, no SMO/SMSAP at all) and SnapMirror. Lot of usage of FLexClone for quality test and dr test too. On the top VMware SRM drives all the dr. To facilitate the start in production of replicated instances a lot of vserver are also used.

Regards,

Da: toasters-bounces@teaparty.net [mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net] Per conto di Alexander Griesser Inviato: mercoledì 14 maggio 2014 02:06 A: Jeff Cleverley; jack1729@gmail.com Cc: toasters-bounces@teaparty.net; Toasters@teaparty.net Oggetto: AW: Oracle access and backups

And please do not forget to mention that you absolutely need to provide:

10 LUNs 50GB each on RAID-786 13 LUNs 38.2GB each on RAID-32 9.5 LUNs 18.4GB each on RAID-10 with 17 hot spares

Because that’s what the documentation says about how to layout your database disks.

Alexander Griesser System-Administrator

ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH

Telefon: +43-5-0556-320 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500

E-Mail: ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at Web: http://www.anexia.athttp://www.anexia.at/

Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601

Von: Jeff Cleverley [mailto:jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Mai 2014 02:01 An: jack1729@gmail.commailto:jack1729@gmail.com Cc: toasters-bounces@teaparty.netmailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net; Alexander Griesser; <Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net> Betreff: Re: Oracle access and backups

Jack, It is a similar thing here. They are old school and not that inclined to change :-) We may be able to get them there, but not in the time frame we have available to figure out how to set things up. They are only focused on lun/local file system and we need to figure out the best way to backup and restore that. Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Jack Lyons <jack1729@gmail.commailto:jack1729@gmail.com> wrote: Work with your netapp team to get a reference account for using oracle on nfs - I think oracle internal IT is doing it.

We had same issue with our sr. Oracle dba...the meeting opened his mind, but with 18 months until retirement - he still didn't to undertake that project

Jack Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Cleverley <jeff.cleverley@avagotech.commailto:jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> Sender: toasters-bounces@teaparty.netmailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 17:01:57 To: Alexander Griesser<ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at> Cc: <Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net><Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net> Subject: Re: Oracle access and backups

_______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

Those licenses of course are needed in each case. Using smvi in Nfs needs decline that needs srestore and so on, smirror etc

Inviato da Samsung Mobile

-------- Messaggio originale -------- Da: Jeff Cleverley jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com Data: 28/05/2014 18:14 (GMT+01:00) A: Milazzo Giacomo G.Milazzo@sinergy.it Cc: Alexander Griesser ag@anexia.at,jack1729@gmail.com,toasters-bounces@teaparty.net,"Toasters@teaparty.net" Toasters@teaparty.net Oggetto: Re: Oracle access and backups

Milazzo,

Thanks for the information. At this point it looks like they are going to be happy with the performance of the NFS mount. They can definitely do the scripting for the backups, but it sounds like we'll still need to get a snap restore license for them.

Jeff

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Milazzo Giacomo <G.Milazzo@sinergy.itmailto:G.Milazzo@sinergy.it> wrote: I’ve read each single row :). Very interesting discussion.

Where’s the problem? FCP and a lot of SSD! That’s all folk as stated in Looney Toons! :)

Jokes aside my two cents come bringing one of the biggest success story of a customer of our (a big petroleum company here) They’re “playing” with Oracle on NFS since the FAS270 time! And overall winning a battle against Oracle representative too and “old fashioned dbadmin”…

FAS and Ontap 7 mode (now 8.1)

Their infrastructure is all virtualized on VMware platform (NFS for the datastore too), using now a core network at 10 GbE with LACP (but they started coupling single 1 Gbps links with the ip aliasing technique on filers to allow several mp on different links) and all the db server run on Linux RH as VM with vdisk for binaries and exports from NetApp for their RAC or standalone functions: always on NFS exports. Their SAP frame runs on Oracle too, same architecture. They use DirectNFS sometimes but the most of link are on NFS.

For which concern backup and dr everything is managed by Workflow and OnCommand Core (aka DFM) and its Console (all scripts integrated with RMAN, no SMO/SMSAP at all) and SnapMirror. Lot of usage of FLexClone for quality test and dr test too. On the top VMware SRM drives all the dr. To facilitate the start in production of replicated instances a lot of vserver are also used.

Regards,

Da: toasters-bounces@teaparty.netmailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net [mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.netmailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net] Per conto di Alexander Griesser Inviato: mercoledì 14 maggio 2014 02:06 A: Jeff Cleverley; jack1729@gmail.commailto:jack1729@gmail.com Cc: toasters-bounces@teaparty.netmailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net; <Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net> Oggetto: AW: Oracle access and backups

And please do not forget to mention that you absolutely need to provide:

10 LUNs 50GB each on RAID-786 13 LUNs 38.2GB each on RAID-32 9.5 LUNs 18.4GB each on RAID-10 with 17 hot spares

Because that’s what the documentation says about how to layout your database disks.

Alexander Griesser System-Administrator

ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH

Telefon: +43-5-0556-320 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500

E-Mail: ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at Web: http://www.anexia.athttp://www.anexia.at/

Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601

Von: Jeff Cleverley [mailto:jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Mai 2014 02:01 An: jack1729@gmail.commailto:jack1729@gmail.com Cc: toasters-bounces@teaparty.netmailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net; Alexander Griesser; <Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net> Betreff: Re: Oracle access and backups

Jack, It is a similar thing here. They are old school and not that inclined to change :-) We may be able to get them there, but not in the time frame we have available to figure out how to set things up. They are only focused on lun/local file system and we need to figure out the best way to backup and restore that. Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Jack Lyons <jack1729@gmail.commailto:jack1729@gmail.com> wrote: Work with your netapp team to get a reference account for using oracle on nfs - I think oracle internal IT is doing it.

We had same issue with our sr. Oracle dba...the meeting opened his mind, but with 18 months until retirement - he still didn't to undertake that project

Jack Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Cleverley <jeff.cleverley@avagotech.commailto:jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> Sender: toasters-bounces@teaparty.netmailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 17:01:57 To: Alexander Griesser<ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at> Cc: <Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net><Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net> Subject: Re: Oracle access and backups

_______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

Hi Jeff,

This is neto from Brazil

How are you?

Please let me know how I can help. I have a lot of good stuff at my blog: blogs.netapp.com/databases or netofrombrazil.com. Also at twitter at @netofrombrazil

If you want my help to talk to the DBAs to help to define a good architecture, please just let me know.

All the best,

neto NetApp – I love this company!

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Cleverley <jeff.cleverley@avagotech.commailto:jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote: Greetings,

My Oracle experience with and without NetApp has largely been non-existent. Please bear with me on this. All of our current DBs are on dedicated servers with locally attached storage.

One of our groups has a 6280 cluster running 8.1.2P4 7-mode. They want to look into using iscsi to a new 11.2 Oracle server. The cluster can get pretty busy at times so I'm not sure Oracle NFS will work in this case.

The questions are largely about backups and DR. I'm curious about how most people choose to back this up and how to recover for that solution. I know there are lun copy options, snapmanager/flex clone options, etc. We're very open to manual scripting and custom solutions. Backups would most likely go to a NearStore, and the DR would be a second server connected via iscsi also.

Thanks,

Jeff

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611tel:970-288-4611

_______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

Your DBAs may have a lot of interest in Oracle DNFS because it is an "Oracle product" and should be well supported by the Oracle support team that they would be used to dealing with. Maybe that will help you push them in the right direction. Though, you may start missing being able to use 'nfsstat.'

Recently, Oracle has been trying to sell me their Oracle ZFS storage products. Allegedly, their use of Oracle Intelligent Storage Protocol (OISP) is the secret sauce that makes them better than everyone else. I'm skeptical. That said, even in that instance, they would prefer you use DNFS (and in fact, OISP is only available when you are using DNFS - and version 12c or newer.)

We have started moving our databases to using DNFS (had been using NFS.) We can certainly see the databases are sending and receiving more traffic to and from our NetApp (6220) and some of our jobs run quicker (noticeably, refresh jobs in our data warehouse.) We had seen that using the kernel's NFS, we'd be getting some backup in the rpc backlog, so not surprised that we are being more efficient now.

Interestingly, though, we have a series of batch jobs that run overnight related to our homegrown ERP system, and we found that while most of the jobs are running the same duration or even quicker, a few key jobs that do bulk selections took a significant amount of time longer when using DNFS (2.5-3 hours longer, when on average the day end jobs run in about 5-6 hours.) My thought at this point is that we have moved our bottleneck to CPU on the database server and it is presenting itself in this manner. Still digging into that, though.

Ryan

---

Ryan Pugatch • Boston, MA • [1]www.ryanp.com

On Tue, May 13, 2014, at 06:25 PM, Jeff Cleverley wrote:

Alexander, Nice reply :-) They are not quite that bad since they don't get that far down into the storage aspect.

Peta, Thanks for the reply. I know they are looking at other options other than SMO, but I'm not sure what yet.

Neto, I'll look through the blogs and see what applies. The DBAs don't even want to talk to use about NFS, I'm pretty sure they won't go out of their comfort zone on this yet.

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Neto, Antonio Jose Rodrigues <[2]Antonio.Jose.Rodrigues.Neto@netapp.com> wrote:

Hi Jeff,

This is neto from Brazil

How are you?

Please let me know how I can help. I have a lot of good stuff at my blog: [3]blogs.netapp.com/databases or [4]netofrombrazil.com. Also at twitter at @netofrombrazil

If you want my help to talk to the DBAs to help to define a good architecture, please just let me know.

All the best,

neto NetApp – I love this company!

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Cleverley<[5]jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

Greetings,

My Oracle experience with and without NetApp has largely been non-existent. Please bear with me on this. All of our current DBs are on dedicated servers with locally attached storage.

One of our groups has a 6280 cluster running 8.1.2P4 7-mode. They want to look into using iscsi to a new 11.2 Oracle server. The cluster can get pretty busy at times so I'm not sure Oracle NFS will work in this case.

The questions are largely about backups and DR. I'm curious about how most people choose to back this up and how to recover for that solution. I know there are lun copy options, snapmanager/flex clone options, etc. We're very open to manual scripting and custom solutions. Backups would most likely go to a NearStore, and the DR would be a second server connected via iscsi also.

Thanks,

Jeff

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 [6]970-288-4611

_______________________________________________

Toasters mailing list

[7]Toasters@teaparty.net

[8]http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

_______________________________________________

Toasters mailing list

[9]Toasters@teaparty.net

[10]http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

References

1. http://www.ryanp.com/ 2. mailto:Antonio.Jose.Rodrigues.Neto@netapp.com 3. http://blogs.netapp.com/databases 4. http://netofrombrazil.com/ 5. mailto:jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com 6. tel:970-288-4611 7. mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net 8. http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters 9. mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net 10. http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

Hi Jeff,

We have scripts that put the databases in hot backup mode and then take a snapshot. We plan to look into using SnapManager for Oracle to replace that functionality, though.

For long-term, archival, backups we take RMAN exports of the dbs.

Cheers,

Ryan

On Sat, May 17, 2014, at 08:51 PM, Jeff Cleverley wrote:

Ryan,

Thanks for the information. It sounds like we may have a window of opportunity to have them check out dnfs.

How are you doing the backups of your database?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Pugatch <[1]rpug@lp0.org> wrote:

Your DBAs may have a lot of interest in Oracle DNFS because it is an "Oracle product" and should be well supported by the Oracle support team that they would be used to dealing with. Maybe that will help you push them in the right direction. Though, you may start missing being able to use 'nfsstat.'

Recently, Oracle has been trying to sell me their Oracle ZFS storage products. Allegedly, their use of Oracle Intelligent Storage Protocol (OISP) is the secret sauce that makes them better than everyone else. I'm skeptical. That said, even in that instance, they would prefer you use DNFS (and in fact, OISP is only available when you are using DNFS - and version 12c or newer.)

We have started moving our databases to using DNFS (had been using NFS.) We can certainly see the databases are sending and receiving more traffic to and from our NetApp (6220) and some of our jobs run quicker (noticeably, refresh jobs in our data warehouse.) We had seen that using the kernel's NFS, we'd be getting some backup in the rpc backlog, so not surprised that we are being more efficient now.

Interestingly, though, we have a series of batch jobs that run overnight related to our homegrown ERP system, and we found that while most of the jobs are running the same duration or even quicker, a few key jobs that do bulk selections took a significant amount of time longer when using DNFS (2.5-3 hours longer, when on average the day end jobs run in about 5-6 hours.) My thought at this point is that we have moved our bottleneck to CPU on the database server and it is presenting itself in this manner. Still digging into that, though.

Ryan

--- Ryan Pugatch • Boston, MA • [2]www.ryanp.com

On Tue, May 13, 2014, at 06:25 PM, Jeff Cleverley wrote:

Alexander, Nice reply :-) They are not quite that bad since they don't get that far down into the storage aspect.

Peta, Thanks for the reply. I know they are looking at other options other than SMO, but I'm not sure what yet.

Neto, I'll look through the blogs and see what applies. The DBAs don't even want to talk to use about NFS, I'm pretty sure they won't go out of their comfort zone on this yet.

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Neto, Antonio Jose Rodrigues <[3]Antonio.Jose.Rodrigues.Neto@netapp.com> wrote:

Hi Jeff,

This is neto from Brazil

How are you?

Please let me know how I can help. I have a lot of good stuff at my blog: [4]blogs.netapp.com/databases or [5]netofrombrazil.com. Also at twitter at @netofrombrazil

If you want my help to talk to the DBAs to help to define a good architecture, please just let me know.

All the best,

neto NetApp – I love this company!

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Cleverley<[6]jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

Greetings,

My Oracle experience with and without NetApp has largely been non-existent. Please bear with me on this. All of our current DBs are on dedicated servers with locally attached storage.

One of our groups has a 6280 cluster running 8.1.2P4 7-mode. They want to look into using iscsi to a new 11.2 Oracle server. The cluster can get pretty busy at times so I'm not sure Oracle NFS will work in this case.

The questions are largely about backups and DR. I'm curious about how most people choose to back this up and how to recover for that solution. I know there are lun copy options, snapmanager/flex clone options, etc. We're very open to manual scripting and custom solutions. Backups would most likely go to a NearStore, and the DR would be a second server connected via iscsi also.

Thanks,

Jeff

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 [7]970-288-4611

_______________________________________________

Toasters mailing list

[8]Toasters@teaparty.net

[9]http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

_______________________________________________

Toasters mailing list

[10]Toasters@teaparty.net

[11]http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

References

1. mailto:rpug@lp0.org 2. http://www.ryanp.com/ 3. mailto:Antonio.Jose.Rodrigues.Neto@netapp.com 4. http://blogs.netapp.com/databases 5. http://netofrombrazil.com/ 6. mailto:jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com 7. tel:970-288-4611 8. mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net 9. http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters 10. mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net 11. http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

Hi Jeff,

It depends on whether or not we are trying to restore the whole volume back to a certain time or if we just want to grab specific data.

Ryan

On Tue, May 20, 2014, at 01:23 AM, Jeff Cleverley wrote:

Ryan,

Thanks for the update. If you need to recover from a snapshot, are you using snap restore, or flex clone to mount a new volume from the snapshot?

Jeff

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Ryan Pugatch <[1]rpug@lp0.org> wrote:

Hi Jeff,

We have scripts that put the databases in hot backup mode and then take a snapshot. We plan to look into using SnapManager for Oracle to replace that functionality, though.

For long-term, archival, backups we take RMAN exports of the dbs.

Cheers,

Ryan

On Sat, May 17, 2014, at 08:51 PM, Jeff Cleverley wrote:

Ryan,

Thanks for the information. It sounds like we may have a window of opportunity to have them check out dnfs.

How are you doing the backups of your database?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Pugatch <[2]rpug@lp0.org> wrote:

Your DBAs may have a lot of interest in Oracle DNFS because it is an "Oracle product" and should be well supported by the Oracle support team that they would be used to dealing with. Maybe that will help you push them in the right direction. Though, you may start missing being able to use 'nfsstat.'

Recently, Oracle has been trying to sell me their Oracle ZFS storage products. Allegedly, their use of Oracle Intelligent Storage Protocol (OISP) is the secret sauce that makes them better than everyone else. I'm skeptical. That said, even in that instance, they would prefer you use DNFS (and in fact, OISP is only available when you are using DNFS - and version 12c or newer.)

We have started moving our databases to using DNFS (had been using NFS.) We can certainly see the databases are sending and receiving more traffic to and from our NetApp (6220) and some of our jobs run quicker (noticeably, refresh jobs in our data warehouse.) We had seen that using the kernel's NFS, we'd be getting some backup in the rpc backlog, so not surprised that we are being more efficient now.

Interestingly, though, we have a series of batch jobs that run overnight related to our homegrown ERP system, and we found that while most of the jobs are running the same duration or even quicker, a few key jobs that do bulk selections took a significant amount of time longer when using DNFS (2.5-3 hours longer, when on average the day end jobs run in about 5-6 hours.) My thought at this point is that we have moved our bottleneck to CPU on the database server and it is presenting itself in this manner. Still digging into that, though.

Ryan

--- Ryan Pugatch • Boston, MA • [3]www.ryanp.com

On Tue, May 13, 2014, at 06:25 PM, Jeff Cleverley wrote:

Alexander, Nice reply :-) They are not quite that bad since they don't get that far down into the storage aspect.

Peta, Thanks for the reply. I know they are looking at other options other than SMO, but I'm not sure what yet.

Neto, I'll look through the blogs and see what applies. The DBAs don't even want to talk to use about NFS, I'm pretty sure they won't go out of their comfort zone on this yet.

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Neto, Antonio Jose Rodrigues <[4]Antonio.Jose.Rodrigues.Neto@netapp.com> wrote:

Hi Jeff,

This is neto from Brazil

How are you?

Please let me know how I can help. I have a lot of good stuff at my blog: [5]blogs.netapp.com/databases or [6]netofrombrazil.com. Also at twitter at @netofrombrazil

If you want my help to talk to the DBAs to help to define a good architecture, please just let me know.

All the best,

neto NetApp – I love this company!

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Cleverley<[7]jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

Greetings,

My Oracle experience with and without NetApp has largely been non-existent. Please bear with me on this. All of our current DBs are on dedicated servers with locally attached storage.

One of our groups has a 6280 cluster running 8.1.2P4 7-mode. They want to look into using iscsi to a new 11.2 Oracle server. The cluster can get pretty busy at times so I'm not sure Oracle NFS will work in this case.

The questions are largely about backups and DR. I'm curious about how most people choose to back this up and how to recover for that solution. I know there are lun copy options, snapmanager/flex clone options, etc. We're very open to manual scripting and custom solutions. Backups would most likely go to a NearStore, and the DR would be a second server connected via iscsi also.

Thanks,

Jeff

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 [8]970-288-4611

_______________________________________________

Toasters mailing list

[9]Toasters@teaparty.net

[10]http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

_______________________________________________

Toasters mailing list

[11]Toasters@teaparty.net

[12]http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

References

1. mailto:rpug@lp0.org 2. mailto:rpug@lp0.org 3. http://www.ryanp.com/ 4. mailto:Antonio.Jose.Rodrigues.Neto@netapp.com 5. http://blogs.netapp.com/databases 6. http://netofrombrazil.com/ 7. mailto:jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com 8. tel:970-288-4611 9. mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net 10. http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters 11. mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net 12. http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

I do not see any advantage in using FLexClone to *restore* database compared with normal SnapRestore. You still need downtime, you need twice as much space to be able to split flexclone and you need administrative overhead (to change exports or mount points to point to new volume, rename volumes, etc). While at the effect you will be simply reverting to one of previous snapshots, which is exactly what SnapRestore does.

Where you must be careful - you absolutely need to ensure that online and offline redo logs and preferably control file too are located on different volumes. The only volume that can be reverted is volume with data. You will still need to perform database (point in time) recovery after revert and for this redo logs since point in time when snapshot was taken are required.

From: toasters-bounces@teaparty.net [mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Cleverley Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 3:52 AM To: Ryan Pugatch Cc: Toasters@teaparty.net Subject: Re: Oracle access and backups

Ryan, We would want to restore everything. I was told they didn't think there would be any way to to a partial recovery and they probably would not try to look at the old database. They would want the db back up ASAP. They are looking into dNFS though. They still don't think they would want partial restores. I could see where using a flexclone would give you a chance to get the database running using a prior snap, but I'm guessing it would require another downtime to do the snap restore back to the flexclone snapshot. They are using 10G networking on this db. They are getting better speed using iscsi than dNFS. First pass checks look like iscsi is ~20% faster. They have 2x10G connections on each. Would the performance difference be due to protocol differences, or can iscsi write down both paths at the same time? Thanks, Jeff

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Ryan Pugatch <rpug@lp0.orgmailto:rpug@lp0.org> wrote: Hi Jeff,

It depends on whether or not we are trying to restore the whole volume back to a certain time or if we just want to grab specific data.

Ryan

On Tue, May 20, 2014, at 01:23 AM, Jeff Cleverley wrote: Ryan,

Thanks for the update. If you need to recover from a snapshot, are you using snap restore, or flex clone to mount a new volume from the snapshot?

Jeff

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Ryan Pugatch <rpug@lp0.orgmailto:rpug@lp0.org> wrote: Hi Jeff,

We have scripts that put the databases in hot backup mode and then take a snapshot. We plan to look into using SnapManager for Oracle to replace that functionality, though.

For long-term, archival, backups we take RMAN exports of the dbs.

Cheers,

Ryan

On Sat, May 17, 2014, at 08:51 PM, Jeff Cleverley wrote: Ryan,

Thanks for the information. It sounds like we may have a window of opportunity to have them check out dnfs.

How are you doing the backups of your database?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Pugatch <rpug@lp0.orgmailto:rpug@lp0.org> wrote: Your DBAs may have a lot of interest in Oracle DNFS because it is an "Oracle product" and should be well supported by the Oracle support team that they would be used to dealing with. Maybe that will help you push them in the right direction. Though, you may start missing being able to use 'nfsstat.'

Recently, Oracle has been trying to sell me their Oracle ZFS storage products. Allegedly, their use of Oracle Intelligent Storage Protocol (OISP) is the secret sauce that makes them better than everyone else. I'm skeptical. That said, even in that instance, they would prefer you use DNFS (and in fact, OISP is only available when you are using DNFS - and version 12c or newer.)

We have started moving our databases to using DNFS (had been using NFS.) We can certainly see the databases are sending and receiving more traffic to and from our NetApp (6220) and some of our jobs run quicker (noticeably, refresh jobs in our data warehouse.) We had seen that using the kernel's NFS, we'd be getting some backup in the rpc backlog, so not surprised that we are being more efficient now.

Interestingly, though, we have a series of batch jobs that run overnight related to our homegrown ERP system, and we found that while most of the jobs are running the same duration or even quicker, a few key jobs that do bulk selections took a significant amount of time longer when using DNFS (2.5-3 hours longer, when on average the day end jobs run in about 5-6 hours.) My thought at this point is that we have moved our bottleneck to CPU on the database server and it is presenting itself in this manner. Still digging into that, though.

Ryan

--- Ryan Pugatch • Boston, MA • www.ryanp.comhttp://www.ryanp.com

On Tue, May 13, 2014, at 06:25 PM, Jeff Cleverley wrote: Alexander, Nice reply :-) They are not quite that bad since they don't get that far down into the storage aspect.

Peta, Thanks for the reply. I know they are looking at other options other than SMO, but I'm not sure what yet.

Neto, I'll look through the blogs and see what applies. The DBAs don't even want to talk to use about NFS, I'm pretty sure they won't go out of their comfort zone on this yet.

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Neto, Antonio Jose Rodrigues <Antonio.Jose.Rodrigues.Neto@netapp.commailto:Antonio.Jose.Rodrigues.Neto@netapp.com> wrote: Hi Jeff,

This is neto from Brazil

How are you?

Please let me know how I can help. I have a lot of good stuff at my blog: blogs.netapp.com/databaseshttp://blogs.netapp.com/databases or netofrombrazil.comhttp://netofrombrazil.com. Also at twitter at @netofrombrazil

If you want my help to talk to the DBAs to help to define a good architecture, please just let me know.

All the best,

neto NetApp – I love this company!

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Cleverley<jeff.cleverley@avagotech.commailto:jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote: Greetings,

My Oracle experience with and without NetApp has largely been non-existent. Please bear with me on this. All of our current DBs are on dedicated servers with locally attached storage.

One of our groups has a 6280 cluster running 8.1.2P4 7-mode. They want to look into using iscsi to a new 11.2 Oracle server. The cluster can get pretty busy at times so I'm not sure Oracle NFS will work in this case.

The questions are largely about backups and DR. I'm curious about how most people choose to back this up and how to recover for that solution. I know there are lun copy options, snapmanager/flex clone options, etc. We're very open to manual scripting and custom solutions. Backups would most likely go to a NearStore, and the DR would be a second server connected via iscsi also.

Thanks,

Jeff

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611tel:970-288-4611

_______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611 _______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

Sorry, that should read 'regular NFS'

On Fri, May 23, 2014, at 08:53 AM, Ryan Pugatch wrote:

There is some overhead to NFS in general, but I don't feel comfortable saying 20%. Are you sure that they are using dNFS and not regular dNFS, and are you comparing using the same spec on the volumes you are exposing?

On Thu, May 22, 2014, at 04:51 PM, Jeff Cleverley wrote:

Ryan,

We would want to restore everything. I was told they didn't think there would be any way to to a partial recovery and they probably would not try to look at the old database. They would want the db back up ASAP.

They are looking into dNFS though. They still don't think they would want partial restores. I could see where using a flexclone would give you a chance to get the database running using a prior snap, but I'm guessing it would require another downtime to do the snap restore back to the flexclone snapshot.

They are using 10G networking on this db. They are getting better speed using iscsi than dNFS. First pass checks look like iscsi is ~20% faster. They have 2x10G connections on each. Would the performance difference be due to protocol differences, or can iscsi write down both paths at the same time?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Ryan Pugatch <[1]rpug@lp0.org> wrote:

Hi Jeff,

It depends on whether or not we are trying to restore the whole volume back to a certain time or if we just want to grab specific data.

Ryan

On Tue, May 20, 2014, at 01:23 AM, Jeff Cleverley wrote:

Ryan,

Thanks for the update. If you need to recover from a snapshot, are you using snap restore, or flex clone to mount a new volume from the snapshot?

Jeff

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Ryan Pugatch <[2]rpug@lp0.org> wrote:

Hi Jeff,

We have scripts that put the databases in hot backup mode and then take a snapshot. We plan to look into using SnapManager for Oracle to replace that functionality, though.

For long-term, archival, backups we take RMAN exports of the dbs.

Cheers,

Ryan

On Sat, May 17, 2014, at 08:51 PM, Jeff Cleverley wrote:

Ryan,

Thanks for the information. It sounds like we may have a window of opportunity to have them check out dnfs.

How are you doing the backups of your database?

Thanks,

Jeff

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Pugatch <[3]rpug@lp0.org> wrote:

Your DBAs may have a lot of interest in Oracle DNFS because it is an "Oracle product" and should be well supported by the Oracle support team that they would be used to dealing with. Maybe that will help you push them in the right direction. Though, you may start missing being able to use 'nfsstat.'

Recently, Oracle has been trying to sell me their Oracle ZFS storage products. Allegedly, their use of Oracle Intelligent Storage Protocol (OISP) is the secret sauce that makes them better than everyone else. I'm skeptical. That said, even in that instance, they would prefer you use DNFS (and in fact, OISP is only available when you are using DNFS - and version 12c or newer.)

We have started moving our databases to using DNFS (had been using NFS.) We can certainly see the databases are sending and receiving more traffic to and from our NetApp (6220) and some of our jobs run quicker (noticeably, refresh jobs in our data warehouse.) We had seen that using the kernel's NFS, we'd be getting some backup in the rpc backlog, so not surprised that we are being more efficient now.

Interestingly, though, we have a series of batch jobs that run overnight related to our homegrown ERP system, and we found that while most of the jobs are running the same duration or even quicker, a few key jobs that do bulk selections took a significant amount of time longer when using DNFS (2.5-3 hours longer, when on average the day end jobs run in about 5-6 hours.) My thought at this point is that we have moved our bottleneck to CPU on the database server and it is presenting itself in this manner. Still digging into that, though.

Ryan

--- Ryan Pugatch • Boston, MA • [4]www.ryanp.com

On Tue, May 13, 2014, at 06:25 PM, Jeff Cleverley wrote:

Alexander, Nice reply :-) They are not quite that bad since they don't get that far down into the storage aspect.

Peta, Thanks for the reply. I know they are looking at other options other than SMO, but I'm not sure what yet.

Neto, I'll look through the blogs and see what applies. The DBAs don't even want to talk to use about NFS, I'm pretty sure they won't go out of their comfort zone on this yet.

Thanks,

Jeff

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Neto, Antonio Jose Rodrigues <[5]Antonio.Jose.Rodrigues.Neto@netapp.com> wrote:

Hi Jeff,

This is neto from Brazil

How are you?

Please let me know how I can help. I have a lot of good stuff at my blog: [6]blogs.netapp.com/databases or [7]netofrombrazil.com. Also at twitter at @netofrombrazil

If you want my help to talk to the DBAs to help to define a good architecture, please just let me know.

All the best,

neto NetApp – I love this company!

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Cleverley<[8]jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com> wrote:

Greetings,

My Oracle experience with and without NetApp has largely been non-existent. Please bear with me on this. All of our current DBs are on dedicated servers with locally attached storage.

One of our groups has a 6280 cluster running 8.1.2P4 7-mode. They want to look into using iscsi to a new 11.2 Oracle server. The cluster can get pretty busy at times so I'm not sure Oracle NFS will work in this case.

The questions are largely about backups and DR. I'm curious about how most people choose to back this up and how to recover for that solution. I know there are lun copy options, snapmanager/flex clone options, etc. We're very open to manual scripting and custom solutions. Backups would most likely go to a NearStore, and the DR would be a second server connected via iscsi also.

Thanks,

Jeff

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 [9]970-288-4611

_______________________________________________

Toasters mailing list

[10]Toasters@teaparty.net

[11]http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

_______________________________________________

Toasters mailing list

[12]Toasters@teaparty.net

[13]http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

-- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611

_______________________________________________

Toasters mailing list

[14]Toasters@teaparty.net

[15]http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters

References

1. mailto:rpug@lp0.org 2. mailto:rpug@lp0.org 3. mailto:rpug@lp0.org 4. http://www.ryanp.com/ 5. mailto:Antonio.Jose.Rodrigues.Neto@netapp.com 6. http://blogs.netapp.com/databases 7. http://netofrombrazil.com/ 8. mailto:jeff.cleverley@avagotech.com 9. tel:970-288-4611 10. mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net 11. http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters 12. mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net 13. http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters 14. mailto:Toasters@teaparty.net 15. http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters