I think the reasoning here is not quite thorough enough. If I buy a Compaq server and then I install a 3-Com ethernet card, I still expect, and get, full support from Compaq. This has been the case in the clone, or Intel world for quite awhile. I know that it is less true the more proprietary you get, but still is essentially the case, even in the IBM mainframe world and in the UNIX world. I am now in the middle of an issue between Network Appliance and Microsoft and I would NEVER buy another filer if NetApp tried to deflect response to the fact that I use Microsoft products and therefore I should debug the Microsoft side first. Whether I like it or not, and whether NetApp likes it or not, multi-vendor environments MUST be supported - there is no option.
Sam Schorr Homestead Technologies (650) 549-3152 New Phone Number!! fax: (650) 364-7329 sschorr@homestead.com
Don't just build a home page...build a Homestead!! http://www.homestead.com
-----Original Message----- From: marc_merlin@magic.metawire.com [mailto:marc_merlin@magic.metawire.com] Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 9:32 AM To: toasters@magic.metawire.com Subject: Re: Potential user has questions
On 6 Nov 1998 17:44:48 -0800, Brian Atkins brian@posthuman.com wrote:
Can we use third party drives/shelves/canisters/mem?
They would not be supported.
Need some clarification: so if we had a problem with our filer, would we still be able to get support/warranty service? I understand that if the problem was traced to third party parts we would be on our own at that point- but before that determination would we still get help?
Note that this is not an official answer, but just a guess using common sense. Picture one of your systems showing random failures. You call netapp, you spend a long time with their tech support engineers, they start guessing at what the failure is, they ship you replacement parts, etc, etc...
In the end, you guys figure out that all your problems came from the substandard memory you bought yourself. Of course, you handle the memory part yourself. However, does this make sense for Netapp? They spent time and money trying to help you when in fact your failures where not due to their hardware...
So I'm almost certain that no, just like other companies, Netapp won't support your hardware if you put in some parts that don't come from them.
Marc
I think the reasoning here is not quite thorough enough. If I buy a Compaq server and then I install a 3-Com ethernet card, I still expect, and get, full support from Compaq. This has been the case in the clone, or Intel world for quite awhile. I know that it is less true the more proprietary you get, but still is essentially the case, even in the IBM mainframe world and in the UNIX world. I am now in the middle of an issue between Network Appliance and Microsoft and I would NEVER buy another filer if NetApp tried to deflect response to the fact that I use Microsoft products and therefore I should debug the Microsoft side first. Whether I like it or not, and whether NetApp likes it or not, multi-vendor environments MUST be supported
- there is no option.
There is one BIG difference as far as interface cards go. Any driver code is part of ONTap. If ONTap does not have code to support a particular card, there's absolutely no way the card will work in a filer (unless it is a perfect clone of a card that netapp does support). And there is no way for a card vendor to supply you with a "driver" that will work on a netapp filer. They would have to provide you with a custom version of ONTap.
Steve Losen scl@virginia.edu phone: 804-924-0640
University of Virginia ITC Unix Support
On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:25:57 PST, Sam Schorr wrote:
I think the reasoning here is not quite thorough enough. If I buy a Compaq server and then I install a 3-Com ethernet card, I still expect, and get, full support from Compaq. This has been the case in the clone, or Intel world for quite awhile. I know that it is less true the more proprietary you get, but still is essentially the case, even in the IBM mainframe world and in the UNIX world. I am now in the middle of an issue between Network Appliance and Microsoft and I would NEVER buy another filer if NetApp tried to deflect response to the fact that I use Microsoft products and therefore I should debug the Microsoft side first. Whether I like it or not, and whether NetApp likes it or not, multi-vendor environments MUST be supported
- there is no option.
But Compaq doesn't make software, they didn't write the OS that you are trying to get to talk to that 3-Com ethernet card. Who's responsibility is it to ensure that there are drivers for your OS on that Compaq? 3Com will happily help you out with Microsoft products since the time spent writing/fixing those drivers have a tangible effect on hardware sales. I bet they aren't so quick with others, particularly if you are not on an Intel-based mainboard.
Imagine calling 3Com up and asking if they have drivers for their 3c905 running "Network Appliances Data OnTapp v5.x" for the Alpha CPU.
So, NetApp should write the driver, you say? The more wizbang cards from Fry's that people want to put in their filers, the more development work that NetApp has to put into "nonstandard" (not OEM'd by them) hardware, and the more expensive the filers get. Afterall, they need to bill the development time back to the customers somehow.
That is not what we call a "win win" situation.
-- Rob ---------------------------------------- Rob Windsor E-Mail - mailto:windsor@adc.com Senior Unix Systems Administrator Voice - phone:972-680-6919 Computer Services Fax - phone:972-680-0370 Business Broadband Group ADC Telecommunications Richardson, TX 75082
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Rob Windsor -
Sam Schorr -
Stephen C. Losen