Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I’ve noticed that I’m still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn’t trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
_____________________________________________________________ This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
_____________________________________________________________ This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
##################################################################################### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com #####################################################################################
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
_____________________________________________________________ This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
######################################################################## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com ######################################################################## #############
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
________________________________
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
_____________________________________________________________ This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
######################################################################## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com ######################################################################## #############
##################################################################################### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com #####################################################################################
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
###################################################################### ## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com ###################################################################### ## #############
###################################################################### ############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com ###################################################################### ###############
Thanks for the info.. It turns out you are right.. I don't have a VMKernel network.. Just a VM Network.. How are you guys backing up your VM's? I finally got VCB to work with Arcserve. But I am not sure if the snapshots will be the best way to backup the VM's or not.
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@eplus.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:05 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
######################################################################
## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com ######################################################################
## #############
######################################################################
############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com ######################################################################
###############
##################################################################################### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com #####################################################################################
ESX Ranger Pro, is the best backup tool for VM's.
Works well, over both the LAN and WAN, and has some great compression.
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Forest Leonard Sent: 11 July 2007 14:12 To: Scott Lowe; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Thanks for the info.. It turns out you are right.. I don't have a VMKernel network.. Just a VM Network.. How are you guys backing up your VM's? I finally got VCB to work with Arcserve. But I am not sure if the snapshots will be the best way to backup the VM's or not.
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@eplus.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:05 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
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I've got a bunch of clients backing up the snapped Netapp VMFS LUN files direct to tape via ndmp, they find this to be the most convenient. VCB has some drawbacks in its ability to restore, which is why we back up of course..:-) Of course, it would be better in this instance to keep a separate Netapp Volume and Luns for each guest VM, for better snap and restore granularity. Also, you get better performance out of vmfs that way since each vmfs filesystem has its own queues, so you probably don't want to make one big one unless it's for test/dev.
Glenn (the other one) Voyant Strategies, Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Forest Leonard Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: Scott Lowe; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Thanks for the info.. It turns out you are right.. I don't have a VMKernel network.. Just a VM Network.. How are you guys backing up
your
VM's? I finally got VCB to work with Arcserve. But I am not sure if
the
snapshots will be the best way to backup the VM's or not.
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@eplus.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:05 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an
article
where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a
windows
host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for
my
ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we
will
have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other
people
doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using
snapmirror,
it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX
side,
but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port
ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using
IP
Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270..
I
have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as
Datastores
and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM
snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi
initiator
within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something
else
while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not
the
addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately
at
help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank
You.
######################################################################
## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the
original
sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail,
and
delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer.
If
you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified
that
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######################################################################
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############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
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############## Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to
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To the point of separate LUNs\VMDKs - this would be preferable from the standpoint of being able to identify which VM was creating heaviest load to prevent future headaches... I'm sure there are also implications from the standpoint of separating backups\restores as well.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Dekhayser Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:41 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
I've got a bunch of clients backing up the snapped Netapp VMFS LUN files direct to tape via ndmp, they find this to be the most convenient. VCB has some drawbacks in its ability to restore, which is why we back up of course..:-) Of course, it would be better in this instance to keep a separate Netapp Volume and Luns for each guest VM, for better snap and restore granularity. Also, you get better performance out of vmfs that way since each vmfs filesystem has its own queues, so you probably don't want to make one big one unless it's for test/dev.
Glenn (the other one) Voyant Strategies, Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Forest Leonard Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: Scott Lowe; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Thanks for the info.. It turns out you are right.. I don't have a VMKernel network.. Just a VM Network.. How are you guys backing up
your
VM's? I finally got VCB to work with Arcserve. But I am not sure if
the
snapshots will be the best way to backup the VM's or not.
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@eplus.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:05 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an
article
where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a
windows
host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for
my
ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we
will
have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other
people
doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using
snapmirror,
it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX
side,
but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port
ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using
IP
Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270..
I
have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as
Datastores
and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM
snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi
initiator
within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something
else
while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not
the
addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately
at
help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank
You.
######################################################################
## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the
original
sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail,
and
delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer.
If
you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified
that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
######################################################################
## #############
######################################################################
############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
######################################################################
###############
#######################################################################
############## Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to
notify
the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
#######################################################################
##############
Separate LUNS, would mean that the disk share value has no effect within DRS, as the disk shares value is only valid with VM's in the same LUN? Or I am missing something ?
There seems to be 2 separate camp for the design of volumes and LUNs and VMFS stores
Either one big Volume and LUN VMFS store for the VM's
Or
One volume/LUN and VMFS store for each VM.
I still have no idea which is right or wrong :) But I can see benefits and disadvantages of both.
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Walker Sent: 11 July 2007 15:56 To: Glenn Dekhayser; Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
To the point of separate LUNs\VMDKs - this would be preferable from the standpoint of being able to identify which VM was creating heaviest load to prevent future headaches... I'm sure there are also implications from the standpoint of separating backups\restores as well.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Dekhayser Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:41 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
I've got a bunch of clients backing up the snapped Netapp VMFS LUN files direct to tape via ndmp, they find this to be the most convenient. VCB has some drawbacks in its ability to restore, which is why we back up of course..:-) Of course, it would be better in this instance to keep a separate Netapp Volume and Luns for each guest VM, for better snap and restore granularity. Also, you get better performance out of vmfs that way since each vmfs filesystem has its own queues, so you probably don't want to make one big one unless it's for test/dev.
Glenn (the other one) Voyant Strategies, Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Forest Leonard Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: Scott Lowe; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Thanks for the info.. It turns out you are right.. I don't have a VMKernel network.. Just a VM Network.. How are you guys backing up
your
VM's? I finally got VCB to work with Arcserve. But I am not sure if
the
snapshots will be the best way to backup the VM's or not.
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@eplus.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:05 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an
article
where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a
windows
host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for
my
ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we
will
have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other
people
doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using
snapmirror,
it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX
side,
but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port
ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using
IP
Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270..
I
have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as
Datastores
and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM
snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi
initiator
within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something
else
while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not
the
addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately
at
help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank
You.
######################################################################
## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the
original
sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail,
and
delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer.
If
you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified
that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
######################################################################
## #############
######################################################################
############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
######################################################################
###############
#######################################################################
############## Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to
notify
the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
#######################################################################
##############
Yes I am currently in the big volume/lun configuration. To add more to this there is also the RDM LUN configuration option. According to netapp article TR-3562 this is the way to do snapshots?
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:20 AM To: Glenn Walker; Glenn Dekhayser; Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Separate LUNS, would mean that the disk share value has no effect within DRS, as the disk shares value is only valid with VM's in the same LUN? Or I am missing something ?
There seems to be 2 separate camp for the design of volumes and LUNs and VMFS stores
Either one big Volume and LUN VMFS store for the VM's
Or
One volume/LUN and VMFS store for each VM.
I still have no idea which is right or wrong :) But I can see benefits and disadvantages of both.
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Walker Sent: 11 July 2007 15:56 To: Glenn Dekhayser; Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
To the point of separate LUNs\VMDKs - this would be preferable from the standpoint of being able to identify which VM was creating heaviest load to prevent future headaches... I'm sure there are also implications from the standpoint of separating backups\restores as well.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Dekhayser Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:41 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
I've got a bunch of clients backing up the snapped Netapp VMFS LUN files direct to tape via ndmp, they find this to be the most convenient. VCB has some drawbacks in its ability to restore, which is why we back up of course..:-) Of course, it would be better in this instance to keep a separate Netapp Volume and Luns for each guest VM, for better snap and restore granularity. Also, you get better performance out of vmfs that way since each vmfs filesystem has its own queues, so you probably don't want to make one big one unless it's for test/dev.
Glenn (the other one) Voyant Strategies, Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Forest Leonard Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: Scott Lowe; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Thanks for the info.. It turns out you are right.. I don't have a VMKernel network.. Just a VM Network.. How are you guys backing up
your
VM's? I finally got VCB to work with Arcserve. But I am not sure if
the
snapshots will be the best way to backup the VM's or not.
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@eplus.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:05 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an
article
where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a
windows
host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for
my
ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we
will
have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other
people
doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using
snapmirror,
it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX
side,
but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port
ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using
IP
Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270..
I
have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as
Datastores
and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM
snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi
initiator
within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something
else
while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not
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at
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############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
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############## Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to
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It's the way I have gone and snapshots seem to be working...I have everything snap mirrored to a remote site, I have brought all the VM's up at the remote site without any problems.
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 16:25 To: Davies,Matt; Glenn Walker; Glenn Dekhayser; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Yes I am currently in the big volume/lun configuration. To add more to this there is also the RDM LUN configuration option. According to netapp article TR-3562 this is the way to do snapshots?
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:20 AM To: Glenn Walker; Glenn Dekhayser; Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Separate LUNS, would mean that the disk share value has no effect within DRS, as the disk shares value is only valid with VM's in the same LUN? Or I am missing something ?
There seems to be 2 separate camp for the design of volumes and LUNs and VMFS stores
Either one big Volume and LUN VMFS store for the VM's
Or
One volume/LUN and VMFS store for each VM.
I still have no idea which is right or wrong :) But I can see benefits and disadvantages of both.
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Walker Sent: 11 July 2007 15:56 To: Glenn Dekhayser; Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
To the point of separate LUNs\VMDKs - this would be preferable from the standpoint of being able to identify which VM was creating heaviest load to prevent future headaches... I'm sure there are also implications from the standpoint of separating backups\restores as well.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Dekhayser Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:41 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
I've got a bunch of clients backing up the snapped Netapp VMFS LUN files direct to tape via ndmp, they find this to be the most convenient. VCB has some drawbacks in its ability to restore, which is why we back up of course..:-) Of course, it would be better in this instance to keep a separate Netapp Volume and Luns for each guest VM, for better snap and restore granularity. Also, you get better performance out of vmfs that way since each vmfs filesystem has its own queues, so you probably don't want to make one big one unless it's for test/dev.
Glenn (the other one) Voyant Strategies, Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Forest Leonard Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: Scott Lowe; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Thanks for the info.. It turns out you are right.. I don't have a VMKernel network.. Just a VM Network.. How are you guys backing up
your
VM's? I finally got VCB to work with Arcserve. But I am not sure if
the
snapshots will be the best way to backup the VM's or not.
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@eplus.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:05 AM To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an
article
where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a
windows
host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for
my
ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we
will
have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other
people
doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using
snapmirror,
it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX
side,
but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port
ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using
IP
Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270..
I
have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as
Datastores
and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM
snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi
initiator
within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something
else
while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not
the
addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately
at
help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank
You.
######################################################################
## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the
original
sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail,
and
delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer.
If
you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified
that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
######################################################################
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######################################################################
############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
######################################################################
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############## Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to
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the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com
#######################################################################
##############
######################################################################## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com ######################################################################## #############
Scott,
Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS isn't an area I have any experience of....
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05 To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
######################################################################
## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com ######################################################################
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############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com ######################################################################
###############
The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are handled in the NetApp world:
1. You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a 100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve.
2. You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem--not the host.
3. It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than with iSCSI.
Thanks, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:
Scott,
Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS isn't an area I have any experience of....
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05 To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
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Is anyone using NFS volumes and VMware in a production environment ?
I know it has been reported that there isn't a great deal difference in performance especially when compared with IScsi, but is this true ?
And from what I remember ESX only supports NFS V3 over TCP, do the Filers work with this ? Sorry my knowledge of NFS wouldn't fill the back of a postage stamp.
And I'm sorry I have turned this into a VMware list :)
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@EPLUS.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 15:44 To: Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are handled in the NetApp world:
1. You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a 100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve.
2. You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem--not the host.
3. It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than with iSCSI.
Thanks, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:
Scott,
Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS isn't an area I have any experience of....
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05 To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
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NFS with VMware has allot of momentum do to the surprising performance it provides when compared with FCP. Look for more on this in the next 7 weeks.
Vaughn
Davies,Matt wrote:
Is anyone using NFS volumes and VMware in a production environment ?
I know it has been reported that there isn't a great deal difference in performance especially when compared with IScsi, but is this true ?
And from what I remember ESX only supports NFS V3 over TCP, do the Filers work with this ? Sorry my knowledge of NFS wouldn't fill the back of a postage stamp.
And I'm sorry I have turned this into a VMware list :)
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@EPLUS.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 15:44 To: Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are handled in the NetApp world:
- You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a
100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve.
- You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can
resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem--not the host.
- It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the
proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than with iSCSI.
Thanks, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:
Scott,
Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS isn't an area I have any experience of....
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05 To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
#####################################################################
#
## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com #####################################################################
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############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com #####################################################################
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attachments thereto, is strictly
prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com ######################################################################
###############
Hi Matt, Hi Scott,
we are using ESX3 with an NFS datastore in our production environment. We gain about 70 - 90 Mbytes/sec read and write throughput in an (Linux-)VM on this NFS datastore. We run about 80 VMs on 4 ESX-Servers and this throughput capacitiy is more than we currently need.
Yes, it's NFS-V3 over TCP and the filer can handle this.
Regards Walter
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] Im Auftrag von Davies,Matt Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Juli 2007 17:01 An: Scott Lowe; toasters@mathworks.com Betreff: RE: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
Is anyone using NFS volumes and VMware in a production environment ?
I know it has been reported that there isn't a great deal difference in performance especially when compared with IScsi, but is this true ?
And from what I remember ESX only supports NFS V3 over TCP, do the Filers work with this ? Sorry my knowledge of NFS wouldn't fill the back of a postage stamp.
And I'm sorry I have turned this into a VMware list :)
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@EPLUS.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 15:44 To: Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are handled in the NetApp world:
1. You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a 100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve.
2. You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem--not the host.
3. It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than with iSCSI.
Thanks, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:
Scott,
Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS isn't an area I have any experience of....
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05 To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
#####################################################################
#
## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com #####################################################################
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############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com #####################################################################
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Hi Guys 1. As you hinted, this has changed with fractional reservations. (I'm not going into details now.)
2. Actually, you can easily resize a LUN. It makes no difference whether it's iSCSI or FCP. Do a "lun resize /vol/volname/lunname xxxg" where xxx is a size bigger than it was. Then rescan in VMware and add an extent to the VMFS using the fresh space in the LUN. For RDM, it depends on the guest OS (and its file system). Whether extents are a good practice is subject to a little debate.
3. This is certainly true. It gives more flexibility with NDMP and allows you to use a Linux server to achieve all the functionality of VCB and then some including loopback mount of vmdks. (Windows could also be used, but wouldn't be able to mount Linux FS's).
Share and enjoy!
Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@EPLUS.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 7:44 AM To: Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are handled in the NetApp world:
1. You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a 100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve.
2. You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem--not the host.
3. It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than with iSCSI.
Thanks, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:
Scott,
Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS isn't an area I have any experience of....
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05 To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will
have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I
have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into
a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on
a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator
within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
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Further on #2: You can't safely shrink a LUN with VMFS (and most file systems) because you can't deallocate space in the FS. If you shrink the LUN on NetApp, it simply truncates the LUN and whatever was on the end is just gone. Of course, it warns you about that, but doesn't stop you!
Was that what you meant?
Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Learmonth, Peter Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: Scott Lowe; Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
Hi Guys 1. As you hinted, this has changed with fractional reservations. (I'm not going into details now.)
2. Actually, you can easily resize a LUN. It makes no difference whether it's iSCSI or FCP. Do a "lun resize /vol/volname/lunname xxxg" where xxx is a size bigger than it was. Then rescan in VMware and add an extent to the VMFS using the fresh space in the LUN. For RDM, it depends on the guest OS (and its file system). Whether extents are a good practice is subject to a little debate.
3. This is certainly true. It gives more flexibility with NDMP and allows you to use a Linux server to achieve all the functionality of VCB and then some including loopback mount of vmdks. (Windows could also be used, but wouldn't be able to mount Linux FS's).
Share and enjoy!
Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@EPLUS.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 7:44 AM To: Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are handled in the NetApp world:
1. You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a 100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve.
2. You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem--not the host.
3. It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than with iSCSI.
Thanks, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:
Scott,
Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS isn't an area I have any experience of....
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05 To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will
have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I
have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into
a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on
a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator
within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the
addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com
mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
##################################################################### #
## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note
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Partially. The concern was both ways. Yes, you can increase the size of the LUN and use extents, but as you pointed out the use of extents is the subject of some debate. The inability to shrink a LUN is a definite problem for which I know of no workaround (other than create a new smaller LUN and migrate everything).
Good point, Peter.
Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 12:43 PM, Learmonth, Peter wrote:
Further on #2: You can't safely shrink a LUN with VMFS (and most file systems) because you can't deallocate space in the FS. If you shrink the LUN on NetApp, it simply truncates the LUN and whatever was on the end is just gone. Of course, it warns you about that, but doesn't stop you!
Was that what you meant?
Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Learmonth, Peter Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: Scott Lowe; Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
Hi Guys
- As you hinted, this has changed with fractional reservations.
(I'm not going into details now.)
- Actually, you can easily resize a LUN. It makes no difference
whether it's iSCSI or FCP. Do a "lun resize /vol/volname/lunname xxxg" where xxx is a size bigger than it was. Then rescan in VMware and add an extent to the VMFS using the fresh space in the LUN. For RDM, it depends on the guest OS (and its file system). Whether extents are a good practice is subject to a little debate.
- This is certainly true. It gives more flexibility with NDMP and
allows you to use a Linux server to achieve all the functionality of VCB and then some including loopback mount of vmdks. (Windows could also be used, but wouldn't be able to mount Linux FS's).
Share and enjoy!
Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@EPLUS.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 7:44 AM To: Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are handled in the NetApp world:
- You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a
100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve.
- You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can
resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem-- not the host.
- It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the
proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than with iSCSI.
Thanks, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:
Scott,
Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS isn't an area I have any experience of....
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05 To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will
have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I
have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into
a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on
a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator
within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not the
addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately at help@generalatlantic.com
mailto:help@generalatlantic.com. Thank You.
#################################################################### # #
## ############# Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.This note
is also to notify the recipient of this email that it has been scanned for all known viruses and attacking techniques. Thank you. http://www.rvigroup.com #################################################################### # #
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############### Note: If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone (203)975-2100 or by return e-mail, and delete the message, along with any attachments from your computer. If you have received this message in error, you are hereby
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###############
I know this thread is about VMWare, but Snapdrive for Windows will allow you to grow a LUN on the fly while it is mounted and active. Window then sees a larger NTFS volume. To shrink a Windows LUN is a bit trickier. Currently, you would have to mount it on a Vista machine using the builtin iSCSI Initiator. Vista will allow you to resize volumes on the fly. So, you can then shrink your NTFS partition, dismount the LUN, and then do a 'lun resize' in OnTap to shrink it. Just don't go any smaller than the size you shrunk the partition to. When you mount the LUN, Windows will see a perfectly healthy, albeit smaller, NTFS volume.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Learmonth, Peter Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:12 PM To: Scott Lowe; Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
Hi Guys 1. As you hinted, this has changed with fractional reservations. (I'm not going into details now.)
2. Actually, you can easily resize a LUN. It makes no difference whether it's iSCSI or FCP. Do a "lun resize /vol/volname/lunname xxxg" where xxx is a size bigger than it was. Then rescan in VMware and add an extent to the VMFS using the fresh space in the LUN. For RDM, it depends on the guest OS (and its file system). Whether extents are a good practice is subject to a little debate.
3. This is certainly true. It gives more flexibility with NDMP and allows you to use a Linux server to achieve all the functionality of VCB and then some including loopback mount of vmdks. (Windows could also be used, but wouldn't be able to mount Linux FS's).
Share and enjoy!
Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Scott Lowe [mailto:slowe@EPLUS.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 7:44 AM To: Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are handled in the NetApp world:
1. You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a 100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve.
2. You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem--not the host.
3. It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than with iSCSI.
Thanks, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:
Scott,
Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ? NFS isn't an area I have any experience of....
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05 To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs and only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we will
have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other people doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side not being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270.. I
have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as Datastores and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into
a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on
a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi initiator
within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something else while I was out of town did they?? J
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Good points, some comments:
- You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a
100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve...
Be careful! The reason you need 2x + deltas is to simply ensure that you maintain enough space in the volume to guarantee that you'll be able to overwrite data if you decide to overwrite the entire LUN (say, if you format the drive while a snapshot was there, or maybe re-indexed or defragged the NTFS volume in a VMFS filesystem?) Just because you choose a 20% snap reserve in a NAS volume doesn't mean that you won't blow through that in this case in NFS, and end up with the same problem with "out of space"- you'll do a DF and see that your snapshot usage is like 1000% while your regular fs usage is only 40% or something like that. And since netapp is all about preserving data in all cases, you won't be able to do anything until you delete snaps. Bottom line is that you don't get a totally free lunch with NFS, although the thin provisioning DEFINITELY helps. Don't forget flexclone, if you're using VMWare and NOT using Flexclone you're missing out.
Also, if you don't do snaps, you don't need the size of 2x + deltas, but then again why would anyone do that?
- You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can
resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem--not the host.
Sure you can! The problem is that VMWare doesn't like it when you do. Windows and Linux couldn't care less, they see more space to extend their partitions. VMWare hasn't gotten there yet.....I don't think. I know it blew up ESX 2.5.
- It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the
proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
Totally agree, good point. One other thing you need to consider is that you'd still likely keep each VMWare Guest VM in their own volume and export each one, to be granular with snapshots + replication. It's more work but well worth it.
Glenn @ Voyant
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:44 AM To: Davies,Matt; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: NFS vs. iSCSI for VMware (was "Re: List still active?")
The #1 complaint I have about using iSCSI relates to how LUNs are handled in the NetApp world:
- You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a
100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve.
- You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can
resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem--not the host.
- It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the
proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
As Glenn @ Voyant already mentioned, you also gain thin provisioned disks by default and more knowledge/history/experience with NFS than with iSCSI.
Thanks, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Davies,Matt wrote:
Scott,
Any chance you could expand on the advantages of NFS over Iscsi ?
NFS
isn't an area I have any experience of....
Cheers
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner- toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Lowe Sent: 11 July 2007 14:05 To: Forest Leonard; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Re: List still active?
Forest,
When it comes time to configure VMkernel for VMotion, then I'd definitely recommend keeping it separate from the virtual machine network. As it stands right now, you don't even need a VMkernel NIC configured because it sounds like you are using Qlogic iSCSI HBAs
and
only have a single ESX Server. Since the Qlogic cards handle the iSCSI traffic and there is no VMotion, there no current need for a VMkernel NIC (unless you want to use NFS from the FAS to provide additional storage for VMs--which, by the way, works pretty well and has some nice advantages over iSCSI, IMHO).
Regards, Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Forest Leonard wrote:
Interesting stuff. I only have one ESX server so I haven't gotten to the Vmotion configuration yet.. That should be later this year.
I just configured a RDM to run a Virtual server on. I found an article where you want to create the type as NTFS if it is a RDM for a windows host. Not sure if I am going to use this going forward. I actually don't know if you can migrate into a RDM. It doesn't look like it.
I am only using 2 NIC's on my Vmware server.. and a QLOGIC card for my ISCSI access.. I may need to look at bulking up my NIC configuration. It looks like I may gain some performance if I separate my VMKernal from my Virtual Machine network?
Thanks, Forest
-----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:18 AM To: Forest Leonard; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Sounds like we are both at the same stage.
We are not using RDM's yet, however when it comes to exchange we
will
have to, or I may just stick with using the Microsoft Iscsi initiatator from within the VM, not exactly supported, but I know of other
people
doing it.
We have migrated 8 machines so far, into just one datastore and have not seen any performance problems at all, although most of the machines have very low IO requirements.
We are using a script to snapshot and then replicate using snapmirror, it works very well, however our Virtual Centre server is also a VM which was causing a few problems with the snapshots on the VMware side
not
being removed, but moving this to a separate datastore seems have cured the problems, even SQL doesn't seem to have a problem.
The script is the one written by Evan Battle, that is in the newest netapp docs on VMware. I did have a few problems with ssh to the filer, but we are now using rsh and it seems to be ok.
I don't know how you have setup your virtual switches on the ESX side, but I got some best practice information out of VMware on that subject.
Each of our ESX IBM3550 host servers have 6 Nics, connected as follows.
2 Nics for service console VMKernel for Vmotion, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for Virtual Machine network, load balance using Virtual port ID
2 Nics for ISCSI (Service Console and VMKernel), load balance using IP Hash
Hope this helps....
-----Original Message----- From: Forest Leonard [mailto:fleonard@rvigroup.com] Sent: 11 July 2007 11:06 To: Davies,Matt; ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Hey Matt... I am actually doing the exact same thing on a FAS 270..
I
have migrated about 7 servers so far.
Are you using RDM's (remote device mappings) for the Virtual Machines? I actually just created 2 200GB LUNs on the netapp to use as
Datastores
and have not had any performance issues.
Just wondering what your experience with RDM's are.. I added one into a virtual machine.. It just lets you map a LUN directly to a Virtual machine.
Has anyone out there used the netapp script to capture a VM
snapshot?
Thanks, Forest
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Davies,Matt Sent: Wed 7/11/2007 1:00 AM To: ggwalker@mindspring.com; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: List still active?
Still working by the looks of things.
busy in process of migrating all our physical severs to VM, stored on a iscsi lun on a FAS 270.
For those that want to know we are using the software iscsi
initiator
within ESX and have not had any problems so far.
cheers
matt
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com owner-toasters@mathworks.com To: toasters@mathworks.com toasters@mathworks.com Sent: Wed Jul 11 01:03:49 2007 Subject: List still active?
I've noticed that I'm still subscribed, but have received no email since July 4th. Everyone didn't trade their NetApp gear for something
else
while I was out of town did they?? J
This e-mail (including all attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the addressee only. If you are not
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please
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Excellent comments, Glenn. I appreciate your perspective.
- You have to (by default) allocate 2x + deltas for LUNs. For a
100GB LUN, you'd need 240GB of space (by default--I know there are workarounds with ONTAP 7.2 and later). With an NFS mount (which is nothing more than exporting a FlexVol), you only need to account for the 20% Snapshot reserve...
Be careful! The reason you need 2x + deltas is to simply ensure that you maintain enough space in the volume to guarantee that you'll be able to overwrite data if you decide to overwrite the entire LUN (say, if you format the drive while a snapshot was there, or maybe re-indexed or defragged the NTFS volume in a VMFS filesystem?) Just because you choose a 20% snap reserve in a NAS volume doesn't mean that you won't blow through that in this case in NFS, and end up with the same problem with "out of space"- you'll do a DF and see that your snapshot usage is like 1000% while your regular fs usage is only 40% or something like that. And since netapp is all about preserving data in all cases, you won't be able to do anything until you delete snaps. Bottom line is that you don't get a totally free lunch with NFS, although the thin provisioning DEFINITELY helps. Don't forget flexclone, if you're using VMWare and NOT using Flexclone you're missing out.
Also, if you don't do snaps, you don't need the size of 2x + deltas, but then again why would anyone do that?
Right--I understand the need for the fractional reserve and snap reserve, and I understand that snap reserve in a NAS volume may well exceed 20% and eat into the rest of the space for the FlexVol. It just seems much easier to manage, overall, with NFS than with iSCSI and LUNs, IMHO.
- You can't resize iSCSI LUNs. With NFS on a FlexVol, you can
resize to your heart's content because WAFL is controlling the filesystem--not the host.
Sure you can! The problem is that VMWare doesn't like it when you do. Windows and Linux couldn't care less, they see more space to extend their partitions. VMWare hasn't gotten there yet.....I don't think. I know it blew up ESX 2.5.
As Peter pointed out, you *can* (but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should) resize LUNs that are formatted as VMFS. ESX 3.x handles it much better than 2.5 did, but there is some debate as to whether extents should be used or not. Again, having WAFL control the filesystem means that the storage system is back in control, and we remove some of the limitations placed upon us by the host OS.
- It's open, meaning that your VMDKs aren't locked into the
proprietary VMFS file system. This could potentially simplify backups and restores.
Totally agree, good point. One other thing you need to consider is that you'd still likely keep each VMWare Guest VM in their own volume and export each one, to be granular with snapshots + replication. It's more work but well worth it.
Right, this is a design decision that will apply whether you are using NFS or iSCSI. You will need to be careful, however, that you balance your deployment--there is a limit on the maximum number of VMFS datastores that can be managed by a single VirtualCenter.
Again, great points, Glenn!
Scott Lowe ePlus Technology, Inc. slowe@eplus.com
-
Davies,Matt -
Forest Leonard -
Glenn Dekhayser -
Glenn Walker -
Holland, William L -
Kießl Walter -
Learmonth, Peter -
M. Vaughn Stewart -
Scott Lowe