Hi all!
So, we're evaluating backup software to replace Budtool. When we used budtool, it used Netapp's Dump to backup the files, not NDMP.
Now, I don't claim to have all the ins-and-outs down on NDMP, but here's what I understand. NDMP does a sorta flow-control in one stream and dumps in another (or something like that).
My particular questions:
1) Do all implementations of NDMP backup/restore at best only allow choosing directories and NOT files for restore/backup?
2) Does netapp's Dump work such that you can choose to backup/restore particular files?
3) How does netapp's Dump differ from the dump in the NDMP?
It's all kinda fuzzy for me....
----------- Jay Orr Systems Administrator Fujitsu Nexion Inc. St. Louis, MO
Hi all!
So, we're evaluating backup software to replace Budtool. When we used budtool, it used Netapp's Dump to backup the files, not NDMP.
Now, I don't claim to have all the ins-and-outs down on NDMP, but here's what I understand. NDMP does a sorta flow-control in one stream and dumps in another (or something like that).
My particular questions:
- Do all implementations of NDMP backup/restore at best only allow
choosing directories and NOT files for restore/backup?
I believe you can only specify the backup of directories. All of the tools let you specify a single-file to be restored.
In next version of Ontap, some of the tools will support what is called "direct-access restore." To grab a single-file, you will seek to the spot on the tape where the file is, rather than having to read the whole backup image (the default).
- Does netapp's Dump work such that you can choose to backup/restore
particular files?
If you jump through some command line hoops, you could backup a single-file. There is no equivalent for NDMP right now.
- How does netapp's Dump differ from the dump in the NDMP?
The code is 90 - 95% the same. NDMP enables some options (e.g. direct-access restore) that dump/restore don't have.
But dump/restore have some capabilities (dumping a single file) that NDMP cannot do.
But for the most part, the two use the same code base.
Stephen Manley Data Availability and Management Biographer (soon to be released -- The Mike Federwisch Story)
On Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 04:18:56PM -0500, Jay Orr wrote:
Now, I don't claim to have all the ins-and-outs down on NDMP, but here's what I understand. NDMP does a sorta flow-control in one stream and dumps in another (or something like that).
That is the gist of it.
- Do all implementations of NDMP backup/restore at best only allow
choosing directories and NOT files for restore/backup?
I'm not sure of your question here. Any implementation of NDMP should not care whether you are performing a backup/restore on a volume, a qtree, a path, or a file.
- Does netapp's Dump work such that you can choose to backup/restore
particular files?
Again, the NDMP client should not care what your backup/restore unit is and NDMP supports per volume, qtree, path/directory, or file.
- How does netapp's Dump differ from the dump in the NDMP?
It doesn't. Running "dump" or "restore" from the NetApp's command-line is exactly what NDMP does.
It's all kinda fuzzy for me....
Think of NDMP as a network pipe that is designed with:
1) Control sessions for pointing backups to local tape or remote tape 2) Optimization for bulk file transfers
Other than that, it pretty just runs dump/restore from the filer's console. The beauty of it is that you get NetApp native dump format, but managed by your choice of backup software. Not only that, they are fairly independant of one another in that upgrading BudTool/Net Backup or ONTAP shouldn't break backups -- unless NDMP code has been changed in either. =)
When you said you are using "NetApp dump" from BudTool, do you mean the backup class labeld "NetApp dump"? If so, that is NDMP last I checked. To backup a filer with BudTool but without NDMP, you usually have to NFS mount the filer on the BudTool host and use the regular backup class.
-- Jeff
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Krueger E-Mail: jeff@qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 NetApp Filers / UNIX Infrastructure Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com
- How does netapp's Dump differ from the dump in the NDMP?
It doesn't. Running "dump" or "restore" from the NetApp's command-line is exactly what NDMP does.
Well, not 100% - see Stephen Manley's posting. In talking to vendors I see I'm not the only one confused about what exactly NDMP does and doesn't do.
When you said you are using "NetApp dump" from BudTool, do you mean the backup class labeled "NetApp dump"? If so, that is NDMP last I checked. To backup a filer with BudTool but without NDMP, you usually have to NFS mount the filer on the BudTool host and use the regular backup class.
No, they have had a format called FAServer (they talked about depreciating it, but it's still there) which calls dump from the filer and streams it over. You can actually script and pipe a filer "dump" and not use NDMP (i.e. on the filer you can leave ndmpd="off"). We weren't paying for NDMP support on budtool nor did we use it.
The thing is we have two F330's with only ~30-40 Gig on it, so it seems overkill to pay as much as $2,000 each over and above the cost of some backup software for NDMP backups on them, but because we run ClearCase off of them we need to snapshot our dumps from them (which netapp's dump does do). Unfortunately most vendors only offer either NDMP or NFS backups of filers.
I'm just trying to make sure I know what I'm asking for, and then find a vendor that won't gouge me for having some Netapp filers. These days backups are no longer a "simple" thing to deal with. But I digress..
Anyway, thanks for the reply! I really appreciate the helpful and knowledgeable people of the Toaster's list.
----------- Jay Orr Systems Administrator Fujitsu Nexion Inc. St. Louis, MO
One thing NDMP does do is the "control session" lets you keep file history on the backups you perform, allowing you to search for the file you need when doing a restore, instead of rgoing thru each tape. If all you do is stream the dump to tape, you don't keep a file history.
Moshe
Jay Orr wrote:
- How does netapp's Dump differ from the dump in the NDMP?
It doesn't. Running "dump" or "restore" from the NetApp's command-line is exactly what NDMP does.
Well, not 100% - see Stephen Manley's posting. In talking to vendors I see I'm not the only one confused about what exactly NDMP does and doesn't do.
When you said you are using "NetApp dump" from BudTool, do you mean the backup class labeled "NetApp dump"? If so, that is NDMP last I checked. To backup a filer with BudTool but without NDMP, you usually have to NFS mount the filer on the BudTool host and use the regular backup class.
No, they have had a format called FAServer (they talked about depreciating it, but it's still there) which calls dump from the filer and streams it over. You can actually script and pipe a filer "dump" and not use NDMP (i.e. on the filer you can leave ndmpd="off"). We weren't paying for NDMP support on budtool nor did we use it.
The thing is we have two F330's with only ~30-40 Gig on it, so it seems overkill to pay as much as $2,000 each over and above the cost of some backup software for NDMP backups on them, but because we run ClearCase off of them we need to snapshot our dumps from them (which netapp's dump does do). Unfortunately most vendors only offer either NDMP or NFS backups of filers.
I'm just trying to make sure I know what I'm asking for, and then find a vendor that won't gouge me for having some Netapp filers. These days backups are no longer a "simple" thing to deal with. But I digress..
Anyway, thanks for the reply! I really appreciate the helpful and knowledgeable people of the Toaster's list.
Jay Orr Systems Administrator Fujitsu Nexion Inc. St. Louis, MO
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moshe Linzer | On the Internet, Unix Systems Manager | National Semiconductor, Israel | nobody knows you're a moron. Phone: 972-9-970-2247 | Fax: 972-9-970-2001 | - Network Magazine Email: moshel@nsc.com | -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Jay Orr -
Jeffrey Krueger -
Moshe Linzer -
Stephen Manley