Greetings:
I have a general question in regards to backup solutions for NetApp filers.
We have a client that is in the process of purchasing a FAS-2240-2 HA, and will be purchasing a FAS2220 for a DR site later this year. We are getting the complete license bundle to have SnapManager backups for VMWare, Exchange, etc to local disk, and licensing SnapMirror on the FAS2220 for replication of current data. It is our intent to implement some slower SATA disks to maintain longer retention windows. However, this environment is very interested in additional backup measures beyond that.
Historically we have been using BackupExec, using agents on physical servers and VMs, to backup to both a NAS device and LTO autoloader.
I am a little confused on how we can effectively accomplish an efficient backup of these filers outside of the netapp ecosystem.
I have seen evidence of other users with older or larger models using direct-attach SCSI tape autoloaders (or FC autoloaders) with NDMP. We can't implement the SCSI cards in the 2240, and we don't wish to have the budgetary hit of implementing FC solely for tape connections. We were prefer to avoid tape altogether, if at all possible, as these filers will be in collocation facilities that we don't otherwise physically visit.
Some other background: most\all of the data on these 2240s will be VMWare VMs stored on NFS (thin) datastores. There may be one or two iSCSI connections from VMWare for SQL and Exchange for SME reasons. The environment is a MS shop, with Sharepoint\SQL being the critical business application.
Does anyone have any recommendations about other ways to backup our data? We hope to rely on the NetApp replication and SnapManager\SnapRestore\SnapVault for most of our normal recovery needs, however require the safety net of a weekly or monthly backup to some other media. We also hope to avoid something that is too difficult to manage, and were hoping for a commercial solution. Backup Exec with appropriate agents and a local NAS device or something along those lines is what I was thinking. Does anyone have any experience with tape devices connected to a media server backing up NetApp filers? Can NDMP stream the content to the NDMP backup server with a locally attached autoloader? How about some other sort of disk target (e.g. cheap NAS appliance connected to the backup server via cifs \ iSCSI)
I've reached out to my SE, who indicated that most organizations are either using FC\SAS\SCSI autoloaders with NDMP or are relying on the built-in NetApp SnapVault solution.
I would welcome any guidance or experience that anyone can share.
Thanks,
Mike Gossett
I know its pretty new, but Netapp and AWS may have an offering to get it offsite. If they want it on tape, its going to suck to have to crawl the file system from a backup media server to tape. We did remote NDMP in pinch for one of our remote sites. NDMP really takes our filers down, but what's new? May want to see if remote NDMP works for you. We used it with NetBackup where I am at now..
Hope that's of some help.
From: toasters-bounces@teaparty.net [mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net] On Behalf Of Mike Gossett Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:26 PM To: toasters@teaparty.net Subject: FAS backup question
Greetings:
I have a general question in regards to backup solutions for NetApp filers.
We have a client that is in the process of purchasing a FAS-2240-2 HA, and will be purchasing a FAS2220 for a DR site later this year. We are getting the complete license bundle to have SnapManager backups for VMWare, Exchange, etc to local disk, and licensing SnapMirror on the FAS2220 for replication of current data. It is our intent to implement some slower SATA disks to maintain longer retention windows. However, this environment is very interested in additional backup measures beyond that.
Historically we have been using BackupExec, using agents on physical servers and VMs, to backup to both a NAS device and LTO autoloader.
I am a little confused on how we can effectively accomplish an efficient backup of these filers outside of the netapp ecosystem.
I have seen evidence of other users with older or larger models using direct-attach SCSI tape autoloaders (or FC autoloaders) with NDMP. We can't implement the SCSI cards in the 2240, and we don't wish to have the budgetary hit of implementing FC solely for tape connections. We were prefer to avoid tape altogether, if at all possible, as these filers will be in collocation facilities that we don't otherwise physically visit.
Some other background: most\all of the data on these 2240s will be VMWare VMs stored on NFS (thin) datastores. There may be one or two iSCSI connections from VMWare for SQL and Exchange for SME reasons. The environment is a MS shop, with Sharepoint\SQL being the critical business application.
Does anyone have any recommendations about other ways to backup our data? We hope to rely on the NetApp replication and SnapManager\SnapRestore\SnapVault for most of our normal recovery needs, however require the safety net of a weekly or monthly backup to some other media. We also hope to avoid something that is too difficult to manage, and were hoping for a commercial solution. Backup Exec with appropriate agents and a local NAS device or something along those lines is what I was thinking. Does anyone have any experience with tape devices connected to a media server backing up NetApp filers? Can NDMP stream the content to the NDMP backup server with a locally attached autoloader? How about some other sort of disk target (e.g. cheap NAS appliance connected to the backup server via cifs \ iSCSI)
I've reached out to my SE, who indicated that most organizations are either using FC\SAS\SCSI autoloaders with NDMP or are relying on the built-in NetApp SnapVault solution.
I would welcome any guidance or experience that anyone can share.
Thanks,
Mike Gossett
Hi Mike
Yes, you can use a BUE media server to stream the NDMP backup to tape. I've used this setup on a FAS2020 at a previous employer. It works quite well.
Kind Regards Steve
(Sent from my mobile.)
On 14 May 2013, at 23:35, "Mike Gossett" cmgossett@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings:
I have a general question in regards to backup solutions for NetApp filers.
We have a client that is in the process of purchasing a FAS-2240-2 HA, and will be purchasing a FAS2220 for a DR site later this year. We are getting the complete license bundle to have SnapManager backups for VMWare, Exchange, etc to local disk, and licensing SnapMirror on the FAS2220 for replication of current data. It is our intent to implement some slower SATA disks to maintain longer retention windows. However, this environment is very interested in additional backup measures beyond that.
Historically we have been using BackupExec, using agents on physical servers and VMs, to backup to both a NAS device and LTO autoloader.
I am a little confused on how we can effectively accomplish an efficient backup of these filers outside of the netapp ecosystem.
I have seen evidence of other users with older or larger models using direct-attach SCSI tape autoloaders (or FC autoloaders) with NDMP. We can't implement the SCSI cards in the 2240, and we don't wish to have the budgetary hit of implementing FC solely for tape connections. We were prefer to avoid tape altogether, if at all possible, as these filers will be in collocation facilities that we don't otherwise physically visit.
Some other background: most\all of the data on these 2240s will be VMWare VMs stored on NFS (thin) datastores. There may be one or two iSCSI connections from VMWare for SQL and Exchange for SME reasons. The environment is a MS shop, with Sharepoint\SQL being the critical business application.
Does anyone have any recommendations about other ways to backup our data? We hope to rely on the NetApp replication and SnapManager\SnapRestore\SnapVault for most of our normal recovery needs, however require the safety net of a weekly or monthly backup to some other media. We also hope to avoid something that is too difficult to manage, and were hoping for a commercial solution. Backup Exec with appropriate agents and a local NAS device or something along those lines is what I was thinking. Does anyone have any experience with tape devices connected to a media server backing up NetApp filers? Can NDMP stream the content to the NDMP backup server with a locally attached autoloader? How about some other sort of disk target (e.g. cheap NAS appliance connected to the backup server via cifs \ iSCSI)
I've reached out to my SE, who indicated that most organizations are either using FC\SAS\SCSI autoloaders with NDMP or are relying on the built-in NetApp SnapVault solution.
I would welcome any guidance or experience that anyone can share.
Thanks,
Mike Gossett _______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
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This email communication does not create or vary any contractual relationship between Logicalis and you. Internet communications are not secure and accordingly LogicalisCI does not accept any legal liability for the contents of this message. The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient at the email address to which it has been addressed. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than this addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact LogicalisCI on the above number (listed as Main) quoting the name of the sender and the addressee and then delete it from your system. Please note that neither LogicalisCI nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan the email and attachments (if any).
Please be aware that LogicalisCI may monitor email traffic data and also email content for security purposes.
The following companies are collectively referred to in the above statements as LogicalisCI: Logicalis Jersey Limited, Registered in Jersey No: 10124, Registered Office: Rue A La Dame, Five Oaks, St. Saviour, Jersey, JE2 7NH Logicalis Guernsey Limited, Registered in Guernsey No: 10896, Registered Office: Pitronnerie Road, St. Peter Port, Guernsey, GY1 2RF Logicalis Paperflow Limited, Registered in Jersey No: 75267, Registered Office: Rue A La Dame, Five Oaks, St. Saviour, Jersey, JE2 7NH
Thanks everyone for your insight. A VTL isn't in the budget at this point, and candidly I'm not totally sold on the combination snapmirror\snapvault with a pair of filers geographically separated being insufficient, but the client has a particular need. Given the fact that we have SBE and an auto-loader, I will look to implement this (to disk and tape) on a monthly basis to see how it goes.
Thanks for sharing your experiences
Mike
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Stephen Stocke < Stephen.Stocke@je.logicalis.com> wrote:
Hi Mike
Yes, you can use a BUE media server to stream the NDMP backup to tape. I've used this setup on a FAS2020 at a previous employer. It works quite well.
Kind Regards Steve
(Sent from my mobile.)
On 14 May 2013, at 23:35, "Mike Gossett" cmgossett@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings:
I have a general question in regards to backup solutions for NetApp
filers.
We have a client that is in the process of purchasing a FAS-2240-2 HA,
and will be purchasing a FAS2220 for a DR site later this year. We are getting the complete license bundle to have SnapManager backups for VMWare, Exchange, etc to local disk, and licensing SnapMirror on the FAS2220 for replication of current data. It is our intent to implement some slower SATA disks to maintain longer retention windows. However, this environment is very interested in additional backup measures beyond that.
Historically we have been using BackupExec, using agents on physical
servers and VMs, to backup to both a NAS device and LTO autoloader.
I am a little confused on how we can effectively accomplish an efficient
backup of these filers outside of the netapp ecosystem.
I have seen evidence of other users with older or larger models using
direct-attach SCSI tape autoloaders (or FC autoloaders) with NDMP. We can't implement the SCSI cards in the 2240, and we don't wish to have the budgetary hit of implementing FC solely for tape connections. We were prefer to avoid tape altogether, if at all possible, as these filers will be in collocation facilities that we don't otherwise physically visit.
Some other background: most\all of the data on these 2240s will be
VMWare VMs stored on NFS (thin) datastores. There may be one or two iSCSI connections from VMWare for SQL and Exchange for SME reasons. The environment is a MS shop, with Sharepoint\SQL being the critical business application.
Does anyone have any recommendations about other ways to backup our
data? We hope to rely on the NetApp replication and SnapManager\SnapRestore\SnapVault for most of our normal recovery needs, however require the safety net of a weekly or monthly backup to some other media. We also hope to avoid something that is too difficult to manage, and were hoping for a commercial solution. Backup Exec with appropriate agents and a local NAS device or something along those lines is what I was thinking. Does anyone have any experience with tape devices connected to a media server backing up NetApp filers? Can NDMP stream the content to the NDMP backup server with a locally attached autoloader? How about some other sort of disk target (e.g. cheap NAS appliance connected to the backup server via cifs \ iSCSI)
I've reached out to my SE, who indicated that most organizations are
either using FC\SAS\SCSI autoloaders with NDMP or are relying on the built-in NetApp SnapVault solution.
I would welcome any guidance or experience that anyone can share.
Thanks,
Mike Gossett _______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal
disclaimer
This email communication does not create or vary any contractual relationship between Logicalis and you. Internet communications are not secure and accordingly LogicalisCI does not accept any legal liability for the contents of this message. The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient at the email address to which it has been addressed. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than this addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact LogicalisCI on the above number (listed as Main) quoting the name of the sender and the addressee and then delete it from your system. Please note that neither LogicalisCI nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan the email and attachments (if any).
Please be aware that LogicalisCI may monitor email traffic data and also email content for security purposes.
The following companies are collectively referred to in the above statements as LogicalisCI: Logicalis Jersey Limited, Registered in Jersey No: 10124, Registered Office: Rue A La Dame, Five Oaks, St. Saviour, Jersey, JE2 7NH Logicalis Guernsey Limited, Registered in Guernsey No: 10896, Registered Office: Pitronnerie Road, St. Peter Port, Guernsey, GY1 2RF Logicalis Paperflow Limited, Registered in Jersey No: 75267, Registered Office: Rue A La Dame, Five Oaks, St. Saviour, Jersey, JE2 7NH
On 15/05/13 07:13, Mike Gossett wrote:
Thanks everyone for your insight. A VTL isn't in the budget at this point, and candidly I'm not totally sold on the combination snapmirror\snapvault with a pair of filers geographically separated being insufficient, but the client has a particular need.
I'm pretty happy with SV to a geographically diverse filer, but on another mailing list I'm on there's some discussion about how any online backup could be wiped by hackers. I have no interest in setting up a tape infrastructure, so what options are there for offline disk backup? Can you SMTape to disk? NDMP perhaps?
Thanks,
Hi James,
just to mention: since SV/SM is based upon SnapShots that are by design *readonly*, it's not possible to 'wipe' them through file system means. But if a hacker actually gains access to the destination filer itself and messes with it (e.g. vol destroy)...
And yes, you can SMTape. (Neat thing: it keeps dedupe savings, as opposed to NDMP-based backup) *smtape* NAME na_smtape - image-based backup and restore SYNOPSIS smtape backup [ options] path tape_device smtape restore [ options] path tape_device smtape restore -g path smtape restore -h tape_device smtape abort job_id smtape continue job_id [ tape_device] smtape status [ -l ] [ [ -p path] | [ job_id] ] smtape help [ subcommand ] DESCRIPTION The smtape command is used to manage backup and restore operations. It allows user to backup a volume to tape, restore to a volume from tape, abort or continue an operation, show the status of an operation, and get help on smtape command.
HTH
Sebastian
On 15.05.2013 07:54, James Andrewartha wrote:
On 15/05/13 07:13, Mike Gossett wrote:
Thanks everyone for your insight. A VTL isn't in the budget at this point, and candidly I'm not totally sold on the combination snapmirror\snapvault with a pair of filers geographically separated being insufficient, but the client has a particular need.
I'm pretty happy with SV to a geographically diverse filer, but on another mailing list I'm on there's some discussion about how any online backup could be wiped by hackers. I have no interest in setting up a tape infrastructure, so what options are there for offline disk backup? Can you SMTape to disk? NDMP perhaps?
Thanks,
Sebastian,
Could you elaborate on the usage of SMTAPE to disk?
For my purposes, a staggered weekly or event monthly backup to some other media is my only requirement. Fulls are fine, as is storage rehydration (though it would be very beneficial if I could keep it in deduplicated fashion as it would allow me to have backups more often \ keep them longer).
What would be ideal is if I could use dump\smtape (as a scheduled job, perhaps) to copy the filesystem to a remote NFS share (say, on a commodity NAS device).
From further reading, it appears that "remote ndmp" can be used to stream
the NDMP dump directly to my backup media server (e.g. Backup Exec), which I could configure to write either to a tape device connected directly to the backup exec server, or to disk storage (e.g. iscsi connection to aforementioned commodity NAS device).
I've found evidence that with "priv set diag" one can use smtape to copy a volume to another volume on the netapp and copy it off, though I don't see any real benefit to doing so other than the space savings.
Any other creative ideas? I could use an NFS client and a copy job from the .snapshot directories, but that seems troublesome to maintain and monitor.
Steve, after thinking about the Amazon AWS (and I presume Glacier?) comment you had I'm interested in hearing more. Have you heard how this is configured? In the past other clients have needed to initiate either a direct connect with Amazon or an IPsec tunnel off of routers announcing address space via BGP. I'm assuming this isn't required for lower bandwidth implementations?
Thanks, Mike
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 1:50 AM, Sebastian Goetze spgoetze@gmail.comwrote:
Hi James,
just to mention: since SV/SM is based upon SnapShots that are by design *readonly*, it's not possible to 'wipe' them through file system means. But if a hacker actually gains access to the destination filer itself and messes with it (e.g. vol destroy)...
And yes, you can SMTape. (Neat thing: it keeps dedupe savings, as opposed to NDMP-based backup) *smtape* NAME na_smtape - image-based backup and restore SYNOPSIS smtape backup [ options] path tape_device smtape restore [ options] path tape_device smtape restore -g path smtape restore -h tape_device smtape abort job_id smtape continue job_id [ tape_device] smtape status [ -l ] [ [ -p path] | [ job_id] ] smtape help [ subcommand ] DESCRIPTION The smtape command is used to manage backup and restore operations. It allows user to backup a volume to tape, restore to a volume from tape, abort or continue an operation, show the status of an operation, and get help on smtape command.
HTH
Sebastian
On 15.05.2013 07:54, James Andrewartha wrote:
On 15/05/13 07:13, Mike Gossett wrote:
Thanks everyone for your insight. A VTL isn't in the budget at this point, and candidly I'm not totally sold on the combination snapmirror\snapvault with a pair of filers geographically separated being insufficient, but the client has a particular need.
I'm pretty happy with SV to a geographically diverse filer, but on another mailing list I'm on there's some discussion about how any online backup could be wiped by hackers. I have no interest in setting up a tape infrastructure, so what options are there for offline disk backup? Can you SMTape to disk? NDMP perhaps?
Thanks,
Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
I don't have any real experience with Netapp and AWS, and where I work with HIPPA data which is still of a concern for public facing cloud for my org.
My understanding is you would put your data in an "approved" AWS and Netapp co-location and from what I have read from the public marketing stuff. Maybe someone from Netapp can chime in.
This is a bit off topic, but I do have a home QNAP that is very cool. It has the ability to dump to S3, then I have a rule that dumps to Glacier after 1 day. I dump all my home stuff like vidoes, pics of the rug rats and its around 300gb. At .01 a gb, its cheap insurance for me. A bit of a bugger to recall and find the data without running 3 party plugin. This data is only CIFS btw. My bill is monthly around $2.95 (5gb free).
Regards
Steve Klise
Storage Engineer, NCDA
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________________________________ From: toasters-bounces@teaparty.net [toasters-bounces@teaparty.net] On Behalf Of Mike Gossett [cmgossett@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 5:44 AM To: Sebastian Goetze Cc: toasters@teaparty.net Subject: Re: FAS backup question
Sebastian,
Could you elaborate on the usage of SMTAPE to disk?
For my purposes, a staggered weekly or event monthly backup to some other media is my only requirement. Fulls are fine, as is storage rehydration (though it would be very beneficial if I could keep it in deduplicated fashion as it would allow me to have backups more often \ keep them longer).
What would be ideal is if I could use dump\smtape (as a scheduled job, perhaps) to copy the filesystem to a remote NFS share (say, on a commodity NAS device).
From further reading, it appears that "remote ndmp" can be used to stream the NDMP dump directly to my backup media server (e.g. Backup Exec), which I could configure to write either to a tape device connected directly to the backup exec server, or to disk storage (e.g. iscsi connection to aforementioned commodity NAS device).
I've found evidence that with "priv set diag" one can use smtape to copy a volume to another volume on the netapp and copy it off, though I don't see any real benefit to doing so other than the space savings.
Any other creative ideas? I could use an NFS client and a copy job from the .snapshot directories, but that seems troublesome to maintain and monitor.
Steve, after thinking about the Amazon AWS (and I presume Glacier?) comment you had I'm interested in hearing more. Have you heard how this is configured? In the past other clients have needed to initiate either a direct connect with Amazon or an IPsec tunnel off of routers announcing address space via BGP. I'm assuming this isn't required for lower bandwidth implementations?
Thanks, Mike
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 1:50 AM, Sebastian Goetze <spgoetze@gmail.commailto:spgoetze@gmail.com> wrote: Hi James,
just to mention: since SV/SM is based upon SnapShots that are by design *readonly*, it's not possible to 'wipe' them through file system means. But if a hacker actually gains access to the destination filer itself and messes with it (e.g. vol destroy)...
And yes, you can SMTape. (Neat thing: it keeps dedupe savings, as opposed to NDMP-based backup) smtape NAME na_smtape - image-based backup and restore SYNOPSIS smtape backup [ options] path tape_device smtape restore [ options] path tape_device smtape restore -g path smtape restore -h tape_device smtape abort job_id smtape continue job_id [ tape_device] smtape status [ -l ] [ [ -p path] | [ job_id] ] smtape help [ subcommand ] DESCRIPTION The smtape command is used to manage backup and restore operations. It allows user to backup a volume to tape, restore to a volume from tape, abort or continue an operation, show the status of an operation, and get help on smtape command.
HTH
Sebastian
On 15.05.2013 07:54, James Andrewartha wrote:
On 15/05/13 07:13, Mike Gossett wrote:
Thanks everyone for your insight. A VTL isn't in the budget at this point, and candidly I'm not totally sold on the combination snapmirror\snapvault with a pair of filers geographically separated being insufficient, but the client has a particular need.
I'm pretty happy with SV to a geographically diverse filer, but on another mailing list I'm on there's some discussion about how any online backup could be wiped by hackers. I have no interest in setting up a tape infrastructure, so what options are there for offline disk backup? Can you SMTape to disk? NDMP perhaps?
Thanks,
_______________________________________________ Toasters mailing list Toasters@teaparty.netmailto:Toasters@teaparty.net http://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
-
James Andrewartha -
Klise, Steve -
Mike Gossett -
Sebastian Goetze -
Stephen Stocke