We are in the process of redesigning our backup system. Currently we have one NetApp F740, a variety of SUN servers and one Linux machine. The DLT 4700 jukeboxes we use are about at their limit for capacity so it's time to get some new, bigger, hardware. And the software we use is BudTool which we will soon lose support on when Legato EOL's it (we've been told we have support until at least Jan 1, 2001).
So now I'm looking for both hardware and software recommendations. We use both CIFS and NFS on the filer. We want to back up the filer via NDMP with a direct SCSI attached jukebox (or jukeboxes) or via fibre and a Vixel switch (or equiv). We have been looking at AIT-2 which after some digging appears to work via direct connect although our NetApp rep keeps telling us it doesn't. We've been very happy with the reliability of the DLT drives/media and have been burned in the past with Exabyte 8mm. Some of us are reluctant to return to helical scan media.
For the near future we'll be backing up to 500GBs of data/week. We have been receiving interest to expand the back ups to cover more systems on campus which could mean backing up to 3-5TB+ of data. Essentially we want hardware/software which has the growth potential.
We're getting a second filer and for security reasons we need to keep it separate from our existing filer. We were looking at the SpectraLogic Gator library which would allow us to split the SCSI bus and dedicate specific drives to the individual filers. We'd prefer (need) to use 2 backup servers (one for the existing filer/SUNs, one for the new filer) so we need software that can support this.
The 2 main choices for software seem to be Legato (NetWorker/Celestra) or Veritas (NetBackup). What about QuickRestore from WorkStation Solutions? That product has the advantage that the archives are compatible with tar (in the case of disaster recovery). Having software that we can roll our Netware backups into would be a plus.
Thanks, Jeff
Jeff and the rest,
We're in a similar boat, and came to similar conclusions. I look forward to seeing what others have to say, but here's my brain dump of where we're at so far.
Jeff Bryer wrote:
. . . So now I'm looking for both hardware and software recommendations. We use both CIFS and NFS on the filer. We want to back up the filer via NDMP with a direct SCSI attached jukebox (or jukeboxes) or via fibre and a Vixel switch (or equiv). We have been looking at AIT-2 which after some digging appears to work via direct connect although our NetApp rep keeps telling us it doesn't. We've been very happy with the reliability of the DLT drives/media and have been burned in the past with Exabyte 8mm. Some of us are reluctant to return to helical scan media.
AIT-2 does look good on paper, but I share the distrust of helical scan media. Fortunately we're well-equipped for the near future with our DLT7k's, and don't plan to replace them anytime soon.
The 2 main choices for software seem to be Legato (NetWorker/Celestra) or Veritas (NetBackup). What about QuickRestore from WorkStation Solutions? That product has the advantage that the archives are compatible with tar (in the case of disaster recovery). Having software
Actually, all the above (NetWorker, NetBackup, and QuickRestore) write their NDMP backups to tape in native NDMP format (which is of course NetApp dump format in this case), not their "normal" formats. I haven't gotten a clear answer from the vendors yet on this next issue, but it looks to me like none of the above do their multi-threading, multiplexed (many clients dumping to one tape drive) magic when doing NDMP -- but that's a feature in my book, since we can stream a tape drive with a single NetApp backup anyway. Nobody is shipping the SAN-tape-sharing solution yet, either.
Other NDMP trivia:
NetBackup (Veritas) can only dump to tape drives connected directly to an NDMP server (i.e. only to a locally-attached NetApp drive, or to a remote NetApp with attached tape). It cannot do NDMP backups to a "normal" NetBackup media server. I've been told that NetBackup can only restore NDMP dumps in place, too -- not to an alternate directory, for example (I haven't verified that with the vendor).
Legato hasn't yet released their NDMP support. They've told me that Networker 5.6 is coming out in April-2000, but that only adds the Celestra product for SAN-to-SAN backups. Version 5.7 will roll in Win2k support, to be released mid-2nd quarter, and not 'til Networker 6 will it have the more general NDMP support -- to be released middle of 3rd quarter 2000. So we have awhile to wait before Networker will be as "good" as BudTool (we hope) with regard to NetApp backups.
QuickRestore says it can do NDMP dumps to both local/remote NDMP servers and to normal QR media servers, which is what BudTool can do for us. Dunno if it can partial restore to other than the original location. Oh yeah, QR doesn't yet support Win9x clients yet (only NT), which may or may not be a problem for some folks -- but the other products do so.
So at this time, it looks to me like QuickRestore has the best NDMP support (again, not having tried it myself). But since by already owning BudTool we've basically already paid for Networker here, we're unlikely to be able to afford to buy into something else unless they're practically giving it away. On top of all that Legato has some legal problems related to their financial statements and alleged insider stock trading.
In short, we'll probably wait awhile to see what shakes out. BudTool is still working....
Actually, all the above (NetWorker, NetBackup, and QuickRestore) write their NDMP backups to tape in native NDMP format (which is of course NetApp dump format in this case), not their "normal" formats. I haven't gotten a clear answer from the vendors yet on this next issue, but it looks to me like none of the above do their multi-threading, multiplexed (many clients dumping to one tape drive) magic when doing NDMP -- but that's a feature in my book, since we can stream a tape drive with a single NetApp backup anyway. Nobody is shipping the SAN-tape-sharing solution yet, either.
We just got off a conference call with Legato and they were explaining that was a limitation in the NDMP protocol. We didn't get the impression that multiplexing/parallelizing was that important for a future rev of NDMP.
NetBackup (Veritas) can only dump to tape drives connected directly to an NDMP server (i.e. only to a locally-attached NetApp drive, or to a remote NetApp with attached tape). It cannot do NDMP backups to a "normal" NetBackup media server. I've been told that NetBackup can only restore NDMP dumps in place, too -- not to an alternate directory, for example (I haven't verified that with the vendor).
Hmm this could be deadly for us. Legato recommends direct attached tape drives which I was preferring and it makes sense for performance. But we got discussing this issue, and the idea of the NetApp spontaneously rebooting due to a SCSI bus error (from the tape drive) came up. For our new NetApp we cannot afford to have this happen. It's not so critical for our existing filer. Our existing filer runs OnTap 5.2.1 and has rebooted once (in approx 7 months) due to a SCSI bus error (a tape got stuck in the jukebox and the filer booted to try to clear the error). Although with newer revs of OnTap and the firmware, maybe this isn't an issue any more?
Legato hasn't yet released their NDMP support. They've told me that Networker 5.6 is coming out in April-2000, but that only adds the Celestra product for SAN-to-SAN backups. Version 5.7 will roll in Win2k support, to be released mid-2nd quarter, and not 'til Networker 6 will it have the more general NDMP support -- to be released middle of 3rd quarter 2000. So we have awhile to wait before Networker will be as "good" as BudTool (we hope) with regard to NetApp backups.
Yes, that's what they were telling us on the phone today.
QuickRestore says it can do NDMP dumps to both local/remote NDMP servers and to normal QR media servers, which is what BudTool can do for us. Dunno if it can partial restore to other than the original location.
That's a good question. I use that feature in BudTool all the time.
Oh yeah, QR doesn't yet support Win9x clients yet (only NT), which may or may not be a problem for some folks -- but the other products do so.
Currently no, but if we expand back ups to cover more machines on campus it will become an issue.
In short, we'll probably wait awhile to see what shakes out. BudTool is still working....
Yes that's what I'd prefer to do, but because we have this new filer coming in, it won't be put into production until backups are in place. And if we're upgrading our existing configuration, it makes more sense to make have a homogenous backup environment. Of course the fact that people want the new filer in last Nov doesn't help ...
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Marion Hakanson wrote:
I've been told that NetBackup can only restore NDMP dumps in place, too -- not to an alternate directory, for example (I haven't verified that with the vendor).
QuickRestore 2.6 can restore an NDMP backup to an alternate *root* path, if I understand the documentation correctly. If you backup /depot/src as a single set, and you want to restore just /depot/src/utilities/billing, you can put that into /otherdir/utilities/billing, but not /otherdir/billing (i.e., the directory pathname beneath the root of the backup must be preserved). A quick call to Workstation Solutions should clear that up, or I can dig out the manual when I'm back at the office on Monday.
-
Brian Tao -
Jeff Bryer -
Marion Hakanson